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Weekly Feature #3 - 10 Worst Trades/Draft Picks of all-time

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12-06-2006, 03:54 PM
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Weekly Feature #3 - 10 Worst Trades/Draft Picks of all-time

The original plan was to have just a top 10 worst trades of all-time. After going through the entire list of trades in Flyers history, the good news is that there really have not been too many significantly bad trades, so I ended up also including draft choices as well.

#1. 8/26/87 - Brad McCrimmon - 89 1st Rounder (later packaged for Ken Wreggett) & 88 3rd rounder (Dominc Roussell). Clearly the worst move Bob Clarke ever made. McCrimmon at the time was an outstanding #2 defenseman, and a top 15-20 NHL defenseman at the time. Clarke took McCrimmon's holdout the previous year personally, and overestimated Kerry Huffman's readiness. McCrimmon went on to win a Cup in Calgary and played 10 more years in the NHL.

#2. 1992 7th overall selection, Ryan Sittler - Flyers weren't expecting to make the pick, as it was part of the original Lindros trade. When Aubut and Page tried to back out the Flyers ended up making the selection. They were hoping that Darius Kasparitis would slip to them, but the Isles too him 5th. Sittler was considered to be the "safest" pick in the draft. A complete disaster, 0 NHL games, and just 120 AHL games. The Flyers also had another bust 15th overall in Jason Bowen. The only thing that makes it a bit better, was that after Sittler, The rest of the first round was pretty weak. The only 1st rounders taken of note after Sittler: Gonchar (14th), Jason Smith (18), Martin Straka (19), Grant Marshall (23).

#3. 1/16/90 - Dave Poulin - Ken Linseman - One of the reasons Clarke was fired the first time around. Instead of going for the re-build, poulin was traded for Linseman, who was older than Poulin. Linseman did nothing for the Flyers the 2nd time around, just finishing out the season, and walking away as a free agent. Poulin had a great playoff run with the Bruins, and then 5 more successful years split between Boston & Washington.

#4. 1971 8th overall selection, Larry Wright - Managed to play just 38 games for the Flyers. The Following players were slected in the next 15 picks: Steve Vickers, Terry O'Reilly, Craig Ramsay, Larry Robinson, and Rick Kehoe.

#5. 1990 4th overall selection, Mike Ricci - Ricci had been touted as th e#1 overall pick for two years leading up to the draft, but injuries and others surpassed him with Nolan, Nedved and Primeau going ahead of Ricci. The Flyers debate was the safe choice with Ricci, "a poor man's Clarke", who was actually more like Ron Sutter, or a brilliant talent from Czechoslovakia. At that point no Soviet or Eastern European player had been slected this high. At the time getting players from behind the iron curtain was an uncertainty. The Flyers passed, and the Penguins, one pick behind jumped, and had Jaromir Jagr in their opening night line-up.

#6. 8/2/05 - Danny Markov - Nashville 06 3rd round pick - Markov was excellent during the later half of the 2004 season and the long playoff run. Moved for cap space so that the Flyers could sign Hatcher & Rathje.

#7. 1/17/98 - Vinny Prospal, Pat Falloon, Dallas' 98 2nd rounder - Alex Daigle - Prospal alone would have been an overpayment.

#8. 12/15/96 - Kevin Haller, 1997 1st Rounder, Hartford's 7th rounder - Paul Coffey & 1997 3rd rounder - Haller had been a very solid defenseman, and Coffey was about shot, and whatever he had left was goen the moment he collided with Lindros during a pre-game skate in Calgary. Another 1st rounder given away.

#9. 1982 4th overall selection, Ron Sutter - It was the year of the big 3, and the Flyers had the 4th overall pick, from a previous trade with the Hartford Whalers. The big 3 were Brian Bellows, Gary Nylund and Gord Kluzak. With the 4th overall choice most thought the choice was between two player - playmaking finesee centerman Ken Yarenchuk, and a physical all-around defenseman that just lead the Kitchener Rangers to a Memorial Cup, Scott Stevens. The Flyers went a bit off the board and seleccted Ron Sutter. Sutter was a quality player, who later became Rod Brind'amour and then Keith Primeau, but Stevens is an anchor we could have used on our defense corps for 20 years.

#10. Doug Crossman for Jay Wells - Crossmanwas sick and tired of Keenan and being constantly berated, his play deteriorated over the 87-88 season. With Keenan fired and Holmgren being brought on board Crossman should have been given another chance to show the talent that earned him a spot on Team Canada for the 1987 Canada Cup. While often the whipping boy at the Spectrum, he logged huge minutes for the Flyers Finals teams during the 80's. Keenan often went with just 4 defenseman, with Crossman usually pairing with Brad Marsh. Wells didn't want to leave L.A. with Gretzky arriving, and played like his heart and legs were still in L.A.

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12-06-2006, 04:00 PM
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what about the lindros trade? forsberg, thibault(who was traded for Roy) + more picks/players/millions in cash

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12-06-2006, 04:04 PM
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what about the lindros trade? forsberg, thibault(who was traded for Roy) + more picks/players/millions in cash
In hindsight Colorado won two cups and the Flyers none, but Lindros did a LOT of good for the organization before the concussions and the fall-out.

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12-06-2006, 04:40 PM
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what about the lindros trade? forsberg, thibault(who was traded for Roy) + more picks/players/millions in cash
Lindros did win an MVP for the Flyers.

Quebec was already stacked and ready to win with or without the Lindros deal ... and in reality the Roy trade was more important to them.

Ed Snider had been trying to get a new arena built for more than a decade without success. Lindros and his ability to sellout all the new luxury suites got it built in a year. Without the new building the Flyers don't become one of the league big money teams for the last decade.

When evaluating the worst deals made, it comes down to giving up quality for essentially nothing. Yes we gave up a lot for Lindros, but while he never was able to deliver a Cup, and didn't become the top 5 all-time player, he was a big time player for a long period of time.

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12-06-2006, 04:52 PM
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I'd just like to add that had the Flyers drafted Stevens in 1982 Lindros never would have been hit in that god forsaken series against the Devils. I realize that Eric had tons of off-ice issues and just as many health issues, but the hit opened up a whole can of worms that I felt marked the end of his time in Philadelphia.
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Thanks John for the read. I was getting a bit anxious waiting for your next installment, but the it was worth it. There's not much to be excited about this year, but the nostalgia taken from your write-ups keep the pride alive.

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12-06-2006, 04:59 PM
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Thanks John for the read. I was getting a bit anxious waiting for your next installment, but the it was worth it. There's not much to be excited about this year, but the nostalgia taken from your write-ups keep the pride alive.
That's pretty much the reason I'm doing this. Only so much you can harp on Rathje, Hatcher, Calder, goaltending, etc. etc.

Going through the list of every trade made in Flyers history is pretty remarkable. The number of good trades vs. bad trades is probably about 8 to 1.

The 10 best trades in history will certainly be a future installment.

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12-06-2006, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
That's pretty much the reason I'm doing this. Only so much you can harp on Rathje, Hatcher, Calder, goaltending, etc. etc.

Going through the list of every trade made in Flyers history is pretty remarkable. The number of good trades vs. bad trades is probably about 8 to 1.

The 10 best trades in history will certainly be a future installment.
Clarke won a lot more than he lost.

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12-06-2006, 05:04 PM
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Clarke won a lot more than he lost.
Absolutely ... and Keith "the Thief" Allen, didn't pick up that nickname by accident.

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12-06-2006, 05:15 PM
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Absolutely ... and Keith "the Thief" Allen, didn't pick up that nickname by accident.
beyond my time, but you don't become the winningest franchise in the NHL during your existence (fact) by accident... which people tend to forget when ripping flyer management.

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12-06-2006, 05:25 PM
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Poulin for Linseman. Some of the others may have had a bigger impact, but that one hurt. A lot.

Looking back now, passing over Stevens may have been the biggest drafting whoops of all time. Stevens was a beast on D in junior - who knew he would end up playing so long in our division.

Thanks for taking the time to do these John - great work!

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12-06-2006, 05:35 PM
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beyond my time, but you don't become the winningest franchise in the NHL during your existence (fact) by accident... which people tend to forget when ripping flyer management.
I'd like to think that management does it because they know exactly how hungry Flyer fans are for wins, no matter which generation you come from.

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12-06-2006, 05:39 PM
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beyond my time, but you don't become the winningest franchise in the NHL during your existence (fact) by accident... which people tend to forget when ripping flyer management.
Slightly OT for this thread, so I hope I don't get in trouble. But I'm in a bit of a 'discussion' with a fan of an opposing team (club name left out intentially out of 'fear') on a different board and was wondering if anyone can tell me the exact number of years we made the playoffs with Clarke as a GM. Also, Jester, your post above, are you referring to Clarkie as GM when you say 'during your existence?' Thanks, any info will be greatlyappreciated.

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12-06-2006, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by flyersfan97 View Post
Slightly OT for this thread, so I hope I don't get in trouble. But I'm in a bit of a 'discussion' with a fan of an opposing team (club name left out intentially out of 'fear') on a different board and was wondering if anyone can tell me the exact number of years we made the playoffs with Clarke as a GM. Also, Jester, your post above, are you referring to Clarkie as GM when you say 'during your existence?' Thanks, any info will be greatlyappreciated.
You're going to have to dig through flyershistory.com for their playoff records, but wikipedia lists Clarke's tenures as GM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Clarke

Personally, everything he did in his first stint was null and void. It may have hurt the team, but he was still learning the ropes of managing a sports franchise. I don't think he was 5 years removed from the game before Snider named him the general manager.

(OT: If anyone ever says that Clarke made the Lindros trade, be sure to give them a polish icicle for me. People still haven't picked up that it was actually Jay Snider who made the trade. Clarke was too busy winning a cup in Dallas. )

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12-06-2006, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by flyersfan97 View Post
Slightly OT for this thread, so I hope I don't get in trouble. But I'm in a bit of a 'discussion' with a fan of an opposing team (club name left out intentially out of 'fear') on a different board and was wondering if anyone can tell me the exact number of years we made the playoffs with Clarke as a GM. Also, Jester, your post above, are you referring to Clarkie as GM when you say 'during your existence?' Thanks, any info will be greatlyappreciated.
tell whoever you're talking to... that the BEST win% in the NHL since the creation of the Flyers franchise... is the Flyers.

who cares about playoffs... we won the most games.

i'm 25, i remember nothing of interest prior to the early 90s in terms of real conceptual understanding.

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12-06-2006, 05:47 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Flyers

that tells pretty much everything.

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12-06-2006, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by flyersfan97 View Post
Slightly OT for this thread, so I hope I don't get in trouble. But I'm in a bit of a 'discussion' with a fan of an opposing team (club name left out intentially out of 'fear') on a different board and was wondering if anyone can tell me the exact number of years we made the playoffs with Clarke as a GM. Also, Jester, your post above, are you referring to Clarkie as GM when you say 'during your existence?' Thanks, any info will be greatlyappreciated.
Clarke made the playoffs in

85 - Stanley Cup Finals
86 - Round 1
87 - Stanley Cup Finals
88 - Round 1
89 - Wales Conf. Finals
90 - Missed playoffs

95 - East. Conf Finals
96 - Round 2
97 - Stanley Cup Finals
98 - Round 1
99 - Round 1
00 - East Conf Finals
01 - Round 1
02 - Round 1
03 - Round 2
04 - East Conf Finals
06 - Round 1

In 17 seasons with the Flyers, one missed playoffs. 21 playoff series wins. If you factor in what he did in Minnesota, Finals appearance, I believe that his 24 playoff series wins as a GM are an NHL record.

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12-06-2006, 05:53 PM
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what about drafting Mel Bridgeman #1 overall? didnt he suck? it was a bit before me but still

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12-06-2006, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Flyers

that tells pretty much everything.
Jester and PY, thanks a great big bunch. I'll give you one guess as to a fan of which team I am 'discussing' Clarke with--just don't say it out loud. And Jester, since I didn't start rooting for hockey until '92, I'm in the same boat as you-nothing before then matters, except of course, when I'm mentioning that MY team actually managed to DEFEND our cup.

EDIT: when having these discussions with my neighbors, I really wish I had you guys and your wealth of information living in my brain. Thanks a ton, I'll have to let you know how things turn out.

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12-06-2006, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Clarke made the playoffs in

85 - Stanley Cup Finals
86 - Round 1
87 - Stanley Cup Finals
88 - Round 1
89 - Wales Conf. Finals
90 - Missed playoffs

95 - East. Conf Finals
96 - Round 2
97 - Stanley Cup Finals
98 - Round 1
99 - Round 1
00 - East Conf Finals
01 - Round 1
02 - Round 1
03 - Round 2
04 - East Conf Finals
06 - Round 1

In 17 seasons with the Flyers, one missed playoffs. 21 playoff series wins. If you factor in what he did in Minnesota, Finals appearance, I believe that his 24 playoff series wins as a GM are an NHL record.

John, I hope you don't mind, but I may have to quote you. I cannot even tell you how SICK I am of hearing what a crappy GM Clarke was and how great *** is. Thanks to you as well for the info.

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12-06-2006, 05:58 PM
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You're going to have to dig through flyershistory.com for their playoff records, but wikipedia lists Clarke's tenures as GM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Clarke

Personally, everything he did in his first stint was null and void. It may have hurt the team, but he was still learning the ropes of managing a sports franchise. I don't think he was 5 years removed from the game before Snider named him the general manager.

(OT: If anyone ever says that Clarke made the Lindros trade, be sure to give them a polish icicle for me. People still haven't picked up that it was actually Jay Snider who made the trade. Clarke was too busy winning a cup in Dallas. )

A few clarifications: Clarke was a good GM the first time around for the most part. The McCrimmon trade was terrible and the first round picks weren't very good, but in 6 seasons as GM they won 8 playoff series. His down fall is that when he should have begun re-building during the 89-90 seoson he didn't.

Clarke went directly from being a player in 1983-84, 60 points, leading playoff scorer to becoming the GM of the team. He could have played another 2-3 years, kind of the Bryan Trottier rolse on the early 90's Pens teams, but if he did that there was no guarantee that the GM position would be open.

Yes, Snider and Farwell made the Lindros trade, but Bobby was in Minnesota at the time, where they made a finals appearance, but lost to Mario and the Pens. Dallas won their Cup in 1999.

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12-06-2006, 06:02 PM
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what about drafting Mel Bridgeman #1 overall? didnt he suck? it was a bit before me but still
Bridgeman wasn't great, but there was a reason that was a down draft year:

In 1974 you could draft players at 18 years of age and older. In 1975, it went back to being a 20 year old draft. Beacuse of that 1975 only had players that went undrafted in 1974 .. therefore it wasn't going to be a real strong draft.

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12-06-2006, 06:04 PM
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Bridgeman wasn't great, but there was a reason that was a down draft year:

In 1974 you could draft players at 18 years of age and older. In 1975, it went back to being a 20 year old draft. Beacuse of that 1975 only had players that went undrafted in 1974 .. therefore it wasn't going to be a real strong draft.
fascinatingly stupid decision.

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12-06-2006, 06:07 PM
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For those that want to learn a bit more about the Flyers past I highly recommend the following two rescources.

#1. www.flyershistory.net - just outstanding.

#2. Full Spectrum - Jay Greenberg - http://www.amazon.com/Full-Spectrum-.../dp/1572432128

Jay was an outstanding beat writer for the Philadelpia Flyers during the 1980's, but this book covers the team from its inception up until 1995-96. All the years at the Spectrum. The new edition may even have a bit on year one at teh Corestates Center, when they went to the Finals.

I've read a million sports books, and this would rank in my top 3 or 4 even if it wasn't about the Flyers. Just a tremendous read, with a tremendous amount of information.

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12-06-2006, 06:08 PM
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fascinatingly stupid decision.
There was a reason why we were able to obtain the #1 overall pick for Bill Clement, Clement, hands of Cement & our #1 pick.

Bridgeman was a good solid player, and a highly underrated fighter, who evetually turned into Brad Marsh.

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12-06-2006, 06:14 PM
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1st round bust glen seabrooke 85, darren rumble 87, claude boivin 88. I dont think the Crossman trade was bad at all, Wells was ok. They should have packaged Propp and Poulin together they really got nothing for both of those 2. The Daigle trade was the right move jusy didnt pan out. Same with getting Falloon. Letting Todd bergen go without really seeing what he could have done.

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