HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Weekly Feature #3 - 10 Worst Trades/Draft Picks of all-time

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-06-2006, 06:14 PM
  #26
FlyerFire
Registered User
 
FlyerFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,123
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Bridgeman wasn't great, but there was a reason that was a down draft year:

In 1974 you could draft players at 18 years of age and older. In 1975, it went back to being a 20 year old draft. Beacuse of that 1975 only had players that went undrafted in 1974 .. therefore it wasn't going to be a real strong draft.
Thanks for the info John, I didnt know that

FlyerFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 06:33 PM
  #27
Roger's Pancreas*
 
Roger's Pancreas*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,363
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Roger's Pancreas*
John, under the assumption that you've already read "Walking Together Forever: The Broad Street Bullies, Then and Now." Is it worth picking up?

Keep in mind, "picking up" this book is more so me borrowing a credit card, ordering it off amazon, and waiting six weeks to get it. Its not like I'm going to the library or the nearest Waldenbooks.

Roger's Pancreas* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 06:53 PM
  #28
Pantokrator
Who's the clown?
 
Pantokrator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Semmes, Alabama
Country: Guatemala
Posts: 4,319
vCash: 500
I enjoyed the list, but it brought back bad memories, especially the Poulin trade.

Pantokrator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 07:39 PM
  #29
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panasonic Youth View Post
John, under the assumption that you've already read "Walking Together Forever: The Broad Street Bullies, Then and Now." Is it worth picking up?

Keep in mind, "picking up" this book is more so me borrowing a credit card, ordering it off amazon, and waiting six weeks to get it. Its not like I'm going to the library or the nearest Waldenbooks.
It's not bad. Each chapter dedicated to a different player, and pretty much a long interview with each player.

I'd certainly give Full Spectrum a much higher recommendation if you haven't read it.

John Flyers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 07:44 PM
  #30
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
1st round bust glen seabrooke 85, darren rumble 87, claude boivin 88. I dont think the Crossman trade was bad at all, Wells was ok. They should have packaged Propp and Poulin together they really got nothing for both of those 2. The Daigle trade was the right move jusy didnt pan out. Same with getting Falloon. Letting Todd bergen go without really seeing what he could have done.
Seabrooke is the one that just missed the list, he was the last pick in the 1st round, and there were some very good early 2nd round picks. Seabrooke, also have some serious injury problems that prevented us from seeing what he may have become.

Here are the best players selected within 10 picks of the three above:

Seabrooke - Sean Burke, Mike Richter, Joe Nieuwendyk

Rumble - Stephane Matteau

Boivin - Stephane Fiset, Francois Leroux

John Flyers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 07:45 PM
  #31
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
I enjoyed the list, but it brought back bad memories, especially the Poulin trade.
Most of my lists will focus on positives, this is one of the few negative lists I have planned.

John Flyers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 08:14 PM
  #32
slapsht25
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 346
vCash: 500
Todd Bergen Left hockey to try to play pro golf because he couldn't play under Keenen .... or any other coach after he was traded to Minn and then St Louis where he never played a game

slapsht25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 08:19 PM
  #33
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapsht25 View Post
Todd Bergen Left hockey to try to play pro golf because he couldn't play under Keenen .... or any other coach after he was traded to Minn and then St Louis where he never played a game
Yep. A real shame, he's one of the 5 or 6 most talented players to ever wear the Flyers uniform.

John Flyers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 08:28 PM
  #34
BrimFullofAsham45
Registered User
 
BrimFullofAsham45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 1,470
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Yep. A real shame, he's one of the 5 or 6 most talented players to ever wear the Flyers uniform.
Please enlightenment me. I've never heard of him, but it sounds like an intriguing story.

BrimFullofAsham45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 08:35 PM
  #35
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by La 1919 View Post
Please enlightenment me. I've never heard of him, but it sounds like an intriguing story.
1984-85

Played in 14 regular season games for the Flyers and had 11 goals and 5 assists, and then in 17 playoff games, 4 goals 9 assists.

He was a big man, 6'3, 200 lbs. with extremely soft hands and great offensive instincts.

For those that either never saw him, or don't remember the best comparison I can make is Tim Kerr, but with a devastating slap shot. He was a serious threat inside of 50 feet.

John Flyers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 08:56 PM
  #36
Amateur Hour
Registered User
 
Amateur Hour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Negadelphia
Posts: 6,507
vCash: 500
Adam Oates, anyone? Forget Maxime Ouellet, we threw away 3 draft picks, as well. I know it was a move made out of desperation, but come on...

Amateur Hour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 10:43 PM
  #37
Roger's Pancreas*
 
Roger's Pancreas*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,363
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Roger's Pancreas*
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9teen7ty5 View Post
Adam Oates, anyone? Forget Maxime Ouellet, we threw away 3 draft picks, as well. I know it was a move made out of desperation, but come on...
Adam Oates: 19 games as a Flyer, 12 points

Martin Vagner: 0 NHL games
Maxime Daigneault: 0 NHL games
Derek Krestanovich: 0 NHL games
Maxime Ouellet: 12 NHL games, 2 W

Try to say that the Flyers lost this trade. I dare you.

Roger's Pancreas* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 11:15 PM
  #38
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
A Fistful of Dollars
 
MiamiScreamingEagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 39,593
vCash: 1447
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebellionhellion2002 View Post
what about drafting Mel Bridgeman #1 overall? didnt he suck? it was a bit before me but still
To add what John wrote, Bridgeman's 701 points were the third most of forwards drafted in 1975 behind Denis Maruk's 878 (taken 21st) and Dave Taylor's 1,069 (taken 210th). After Bridgman, the next eight draftees were Barry Dean, Ralph Klassen, Bryan Maxwell, Rick Lapointe, Don Ashby, Greg Vaydik, Richard Mulhern and Robin Sadler.

MiamiScreamingEagles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 11:26 PM
  #39
Dig Out Your Soul
Ex Storm...
 
Dig Out Your Soul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panasonic Youth View Post
Adam Oates: 19 games as a Flyer, 12 points

Martin Vagner: 0 NHL games
Maxime Daigneault: 0 NHL games
Derek Krestanovich: 0 NHL games
Maxime Ouellet: 12 NHL games, 2 W

Try to say that the Flyers lost this trade. I dare you.
Wow, is that who the picks turned into? I didn't know. That's brutal.

Dig Out Your Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-06-2006, 11:27 PM
  #40
TheKingPin
Registered User
 
TheKingPin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,904
vCash: 500
wow i cant beleive that we were THAT close to getting Jagr. man that is a huge change in history had that happend. Also as far as lindros, have you guys ever thought that in had lindros been there for the colorado move that he would have been in a lighter hitting conference(at the time) and that he may have been sucessful for significantly longer time?

l love thinking about the what could have beens as there are so amny crazy things that could happen esecially in drafts

heres hoping we have made good decisions this time

TheKingPin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2006, 12:09 AM
  #41
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
A Fistful of Dollars
 
MiamiScreamingEagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 39,593
vCash: 1447
1. Poulin and Propp to Boston. I am breaking the rules on this one, John. Though separate transactions, they occurred within less than two months of each other and, simply put, pissed me off. It was the height of the Jay Snider-Clarke turmoil.

2. Brad McCrimmon to Calgary. Very ugly trade from the second it was made.

3. Glen Seabrooke drafted in 1985. Flyers had many bad selections in the 1980s but this one eventually culminated with a lawsuit, won by Seabrooke, against the Flyers' team doctors.

4. Danny Lucas drafted in 1978. Second in points to a teammate named Gretzky in Jrs. One of three Flyers' picks in 1978. High hopes, out of pro hockey by 1981.

5. Ryan Sittler. Ditto what John posted.

6. Mike Ricci drafted 4th in 1990. The year of the Flyer. Let's see: Nedved, Primeau, Ricci, Hatcher, Slaney, Stevenson, Greig, Dykhuis, and Antoski all drafted in that first round and became Flyers eventually. I was hoping for Jagr, though I knew little of him, but at number 20 that year was a goalie named Brodeur.

7. Justin Williams -- Danny Markov. I'm not convinced Williams would have done with the Flyers what he has done with the Canes, and I liked what Markov brought, but still a steal for Carolina.

8. Bob Currier drafted in 1969, 6th overall. Same year the Flyers took Clarke with the 17th pick so the Currier pick didn't hurt because of the shrewd Clarke selection. John: Almost like the Reds' taking Bernie Carbo ahead of Johnny Bench (though Carbo had some major league success).

9. Steve Smith drafted 16th in 1981. The Flyers d-man had one point in his NHL career. One point! Montreal took Gilbert Delorme, a d-man, at 18, then six more d-men were taken before Montreal selected Chris Chelios at number 40.

10. Larry Wright taken in 1971.

MiamiScreamingEagles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2006, 01:10 AM
  #42
GoneFullHextall
adios Holmgren
 
GoneFullHextall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Somewhere in NH
Country: United States
Posts: 31,404
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
It's not bad. Each chapter dedicated to a different player, and pretty much a long interview with each player.

I'd certainly give Full Spectrum a much higher recommendation if you haven't read it.
highly recomend Full Spectrum. very good read.
I have never read Walking Together

GoneFullHextall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2006, 05:18 AM
  #43
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panasonic Youth View Post
Adam Oates: 19 games as a Flyer, 12 points

Martin Vagner: 0 NHL games
Maxime Daigneault: 0 NHL games
Derek Krestanovich: 0 NHL games
Maxime Ouellet: 12 NHL games, 2 W

Try to say that the Flyers lost this trade. I dare you.
yeah... i love when we get bashed on that one... the logic was perfectly sound and nothing that went the other way has done anything.

i think what Clarke was generally best at was knowing when a prospect wasn't as good as his hype. see Woywitka.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2006, 05:59 AM
  #44
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 110,423
vCash: 5602
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panasonic Youth View Post
Adam Oates: 19 games as a Flyer, 12 points

Martin Vagner: 0 NHL games
Maxime Daigneault: 0 NHL games
Derek Krestanovich: 0 NHL games
Maxime Ouellet: 12 NHL games, 2 W

Try to say that the Flyers lost this trade. I dare you.
This is the point I try to bring up whenever people say "Clarke is crazy - look at the Oates trade." People forget that that draft was supposedly one of the weakest ever, and yet we still managed to get Pitkanen from it. If the 3 guys that were drafted ended up being good players, then yeah. Maxime Daigneault was considered by some to be the best goalie in the draft. It was still a bad trade looking back on it, but it didn't burn the Flyers so it was moot.

If I was the pick one not on the list, trading 2 1st round draft picks for Ken Wregget in 1989. A draft that saw Olaf Kolzig, Adam Foote and Nicklas Lidstrom taken in it.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2006, 08:48 AM
  #45
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
A Fistful of Dollars
 
MiamiScreamingEagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 39,593
vCash: 1447
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
This is the point I try to bring up whenever people say "Clarke is crazy - look at the Oates trade." People forget that that draft was supposedly one of the weakest ever, and yet we still managed to get Pitkanen from it. If the 3 guys that were drafted ended up being good players, then yeah. Maxime Daigneault was considered by some to be the best goalie in the draft. It was still a bad trade looking back on it, but it didn't burn the Flyers so it was moot.

If I was the pick one not on the list, trading 2 1st round draft picks for Ken Wregget in 1989. A draft that saw Olaf Kolzig, Adam Foote and Nicklas Lidstrom taken in it.
Toronto had 62 points in 1988-89, one more than the basement teams of Quebec and the Isles. Toronto had three first round draft picks in 1989 which resulted in Scott Thornton (3rd), Rob Pearson (12th) and Steve Bancroft (21st) the latter two courtesy of the Flyers' trade. After Bancroft, Foote was taken at 22; the 21st pick was half of what the Flyers got from Calgary in the McCrimmon trade (the other was a pick that brought Dominic Roussel). Gulp! At least Wregget won Game 7 in Pittsburgh in 1989 for the Flyers when it looked like doomsday.

Trades can be overanalyzed some times but with regard to the Lindros trade that was mentioned earlier, people tend to overlook that the transaction was made with "Quebec" and not with "Colorado." Under no circumstances would Montreal have traded Patrick Roy to the Nordiques, I am almost certain of that, and who knows how history would have been written if the franchise never relocated. Roy may have set up shop with another Western Conference team and led that team to titles.

MiamiScreamingEagles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2006, 08:49 AM
  #46
Art Vandelay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 5,597
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Art Vandelay
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panasonic Youth View Post
Adam Oates: 19 games as a Flyer, 12 points

Martin Vagner: 0 NHL games
Maxime Daigneault: 0 NHL games
Derek Krestanovich: 0 NHL games
Maxime Ouellet: 12 NHL games, 2 W

Try to say that the Flyers lost this trade. I dare you.
That the Capitals made poor selections doesn't change the fact that it was an overpayment, Vagner could have been Toivonen, Daigneault could have been Lombardi etc.

I think you should look at the trade as a 1st, 2nd, 3rd + Oullet for Oates.


I'm not saying that the Flyers lost this trade though, with Roenick and Primeau down there was a black hole down the middle, and Washington was in a position to milk Oates for all what he was worth.

Art Vandelay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2006, 09:39 AM
  #47
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
1. Poulin and Propp to Boston. I am breaking the rules on this one, John. Though separate transactions, they occurred within less than two months of each other and, simply put, pissed me off. It was the height of the Jay Snider-Clarke turmoil.

2. Brad McCrimmon to Calgary. Very ugly trade from the second it was made.

3. Glen Seabrooke drafted in 1985. Flyers had many bad selections in the 1980s but this one eventually culminated with a lawsuit, won by Seabrooke, against the Flyers' team doctors.

4. Danny Lucas drafted in 1978. Second in points to a teammate named Gretzky in Jrs. One of three Flyers' picks in 1978. High hopes, out of pro hockey by 1981.

5. Ryan Sittler. Ditto what John posted.

6. Mike Ricci drafted 4th in 1990. The year of the Flyer. Let's see: Nedved, Primeau, Ricci, Hatcher, Slaney, Stevenson, Greig, Dykhuis, and Antoski all drafted in that first round and became Flyers eventually. I was hoping for Jagr, though I knew little of him, but at number 20 that year was a goalie named Brodeur.

7. Justin Williams -- Danny Markov. I'm not convinced Williams would have done with the Flyers what he has done with the Canes, and I liked what Markov brought, but still a steal for Carolina.

8. Bob Currier drafted in 1969, 6th overall. Same year the Flyers took Clarke with the 17th pick so the Currier pick didn't hurt because of the shrewd Clarke selection. John: Almost like the Reds' taking Bernie Carbo ahead of Johnny Bench (though Carbo had some major league success).

9. Steve Smith drafted 16th in 1981. The Flyers d-man had one point in his NHL career. One point! Montreal took Gilbert Delorme, a d-man, at 18, then six more d-men were taken before Montreal selected Chris Chelios at number 40.

10. Larry Wright taken in 1971.

I have McCrimmon #1, because at the time he was still a top 2 defenseman, while Poulin and Propp, while still good players, had certainly slipped.

Lucas I don't list because we grabbed Wilson and Linseman ahead of Lucas, and in the 10 picks taken after Lucas, there weren't any big time players selected.

With Currier, will still walked away from that draft with Clarke, Schultz and Saleski ... it was the draft were the Bullies were born.

I can't list the Williams - Markov deal, because without that trade the spring of 2004 doesn't happen. Also if the NHL doesn't change the way the game is played, Williams doesn't become the player he is today, and that just isn't something that could have been forecasted in January of 2004.


Smith wasn't listed because nobody of note was picked within the 10 spots after he was selected. It would have been real nice if we grabbed the guy Carlgary took one pick before Smith ... Al MacInnis.

One I thought about, just because it was a player I wanted was that when it came I turn to draft in 1999, I wanted us to select a slick skating European I had read about in The Hockey News .... in turn we selected Maxime Ouellet ... the guy I wanted us to draft ... Martin Havlat, Ottawa took him 4 picks later.

John Flyers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2006, 09:43 AM
  #48
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
 
John Flyers Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 22,345
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If I was the pick one not on the list, trading 2 1st round draft picks for Ken Wregget in 1989. A draft that saw Olaf Kolzig, Adam Foote and Nicklas Lidstrom taken in it.
Wregget came up huge during the game 7 in Pittsburgh in 1989, and he later was part of the package that brought Mark Recchi to Philadelphia.


Flyers still had their chance at Lidstrom, and passed on him for fellow Swede: Patrik Juhlin ... Foote would be the one player that we may have taken of those you mentioned.

John Flyers Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2006, 09:54 AM
  #49
JXC
#LaviPondHockeyFail
 
JXC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 13,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
For those that want to learn a bit more about the Flyers past I highly recommend the following two rescources.

#1. www.flyershistory.net - just outstanding.
One of the finest sports franchise sites on the web.

JXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-07-2006, 11:00 AM
  #50
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 110,423
vCash: 5602
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Wregget came up huge during the game 7 in Pittsburgh in 1989, and he later was part of the package that brought Mark Recchi to Philadelphia.


Flyers still had their chance at Lidstrom, and passed on him for fellow Swede: Patrik Juhlin ... Foote would be the one player that we may have taken of those you mentioned.
I missed that, I never noticed he was part of the Recchi trade.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:03 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.