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Old
12-08-2006, 02:05 PM
  #1
Olly2
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Trade Idea

It's clear that the Preds are deep on the wings and on defence. However, I don't think they will win the cup unless they upgrade their #1 center. I think Arnott and Legwand are great. They would be a nice 2a and 2b, however, if they are going to compete against the Sharks, they need a center.

So, what about trading Vasicek and Upshall for Sundin.

This would setup the following lines...

Kariya-Sundin-Erat
Sullivan-Legwand-Dumont
Hartnell-Arnott-Radulov

The Leafs would be doing a service to Sundin by giving him a legitimate chance at winning the cup.

They could also trade Tucker as Upshall could bring similar attributes as Tucker, and Vasicek gives them a big center with skill that could still develop if he could stay healthy.

Any thoughts?

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12-08-2006, 02:08 PM
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Enoch
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Sundin is too expensive! If we are going to be moving Upshall, I would wager its for a defensemen. When healthy, Legwand and Arnott were fantastic as a 1-2 combo.

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12-08-2006, 03:17 PM
  #3
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Sundin is an institution...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Sundin is too expensive! If we are going to be moving Upshall, I would wager its for a defensemen. When healthy, Legwand and Arnott were fantastic as a 1-2 combo.
They most likely would not part with him. Even though the leafs financially and culturally are so sound, that not winning a cup does not kill them (i.e. Chicago Cubs) - I still think they don't let a player go just to 'give him a legtimate shot' (IMO)...also, as I've said before, of your guys that are 'tradeable', I think Upshall is your best and most likely candidate. They won't expose him to waivers (I think he would have to pass through ?), as they have to get something for him. When he gets healthy and plays a little, we'll see what his value is...

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12-08-2006, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Enoch View Post
Sundin is too expensive!
I have Sundin as UFA after this season. If he's expensive, he's only expensive for this year.

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Old
12-08-2006, 10:06 PM
  #5
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hmm... if TML would pick up some of his salary, and resign him after this season, he would be quite the rental player. Would we give TML Upshall for Sundin for a couple months, probibly not, but I am interested in the possibility of having Mats.

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12-08-2006, 10:13 PM
  #6
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there is no picking up salary under the new CBA.

I don't know, though...I love Sundin, but with Legwand and Arnott healthy, I don't see the need. Both Legwand and Arnott have shown a lot of chemistry with their lines, so do we want to break that up? Do we want Sundin on the third line? I just think the money is better spent on D to replace Zanon\Lehtonen.

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Old
12-09-2006, 10:58 AM
  #7
NoamHemsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olly2 View Post
It's clear that the Preds are deep on the wings and on defence. However, I don't think they will win the cup unless they upgrade their #1 center. I think Arnott and Legwand are great. They would be a nice 2a and 2b, however, if they are going to compete against the Sharks, they need a center.

So, what about trading Vasicek and Upshall for Sundin.

This would setup the following lines...

Kariya-Sundin-Erat
Sullivan-Legwand-Dumont
Hartnell-Arnott-Radulov

The Leafs would be doing a service to Sundin by giving him a legitimate chance at winning the cup.

They could also trade Tucker as Upshall could bring similar attributes as Tucker, and Vasicek gives them a big center with skill that could still develop if he could stay healthy.

Any thoughts?
Sundin would be a great fit on this team. The guy is a horse.

I'm not sure how I feel about trading him, but we could get some nioce pieces back in return.

Regardless, a guy like Sundin as your #1 centre would probably make you favourites heading into the playoffs. He's a game breaker, and a great leader. One of our best captains ever.

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Old
12-09-2006, 12:26 PM
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No way Trotz would let this happen. He might quit if we did that. Whatever would we do with Fiddler, Nichol, and Smithson then? Only one of them on the roster each night?

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Old
12-12-2006, 09:52 PM
  #9
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Cant see us making this deal, we could get a decent dman for tht package instead of a position which we already have depth in.

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12-12-2006, 09:56 PM
  #10
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Still cant figure out the fascination with Smithson and Tootoo...they both consistenly lead this team in plus/minus night in and night out.....Tootoo I understand more than Smithson, come on, he just isnt an every day NHLer....

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Old
12-13-2006, 07:39 AM
  #11
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If we were sure that we were going deep into the playoffs, Id do it in a heartbeat. AS LONG AS there is also some plan to upgrade Zanon too.

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Old
12-17-2006, 11:37 AM
  #12
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What do the Preds need for the playoff run? It seems like you guys have a ton of cap space, which should make it relatively easy to find help.

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Old
12-17-2006, 11:43 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigan Wolverine View Post
What do the Preds need for the playoff run? It seems like you guys have a ton of cap space, which should make it relatively easy to find help.
we need another Veteran Defensive Defenseman ... I have zero faith in Zanon

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12-17-2006, 11:54 AM
  #14
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I'm talking with a Pens fan about Ryan Whitney. I'd love to get him...6'4, mean streak, scoring a nice amount of points as well...but he's pretty young, as well.

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12-17-2006, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
I'm talking with a Pens fan about Ryan Whitney. I'd love to get him...6'4, mean streak, scoring a nice amount of points as well...but he's pretty young, as well.
But he has significant questions about his work in his own zone. We'd have to give up a fair amount for a player that won't make us a lot better in the short run.

I think Orpik might be of interest in that I think he's a risky player who has the potential to upgrade Zanon considerably. He also has the potential to either be A: Constantly injured or B: A loose cannon that puts us a man down consistently or C: Always out of position looking for a big hit.

If we are going to go risky, I think Orpik makes more sense than Whitney, should cost less, and has a higher immediate upside. Realistically, he doesn't seem to make a lot of sense either as he's exactly the type that will be feasted on by the likes of San Jose.

I think we need to look to a more veteran guy like Mattias Norstrom that won't be out of place on the top line. That's what this team needed last season and foolishly thought they might be getting with Witt. We need a #2/#3 that won't be out of place playing against the other team's top line. We don't need a #4 through #6 guy as badly because I think that will solve itself with the acquisition of a Norstrom-type.


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Old
12-17-2006, 03:20 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe T Choker View Post
we need another Veteran Defensive Defenseman ... I have zero faith in Zanon
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause
I think we need to look to a more veteran guy like Mattias Norstrom that won't be out of place on the top line. That's what this team needed last season and foolishly thought they might be getting with Witt. We need a #2/#3 that won't be out of place playing against the other team's top line. We don't need a #4 through #6 guy as badly because I think that will solve itself with the acquisition of a Norstrom-type.
With the cap space you seem to have, you could afford to take on Norstrom. He has a hefty contract that goes on another year, but he's definitely a solid defensive defenseman and a character guy.

Alternatively, Aaron Miller would be cheap, is an upcoming UFA, and wouldn't hurt your cap space for next season, in case you're worried about re-signing Hartnell, etc. I'm not sure you'd value him as a "#2/3 guy," but it's a question of what you think you can afford.

In terms of trade, the Preds seem to have what the Kings would be looking for, namely young near-NHL-ready defensemen, someone who could step in next year on the LA blueline.

You guys should post some offers on the Kings board or the trade rumors board. It sounds like LA and Nashville would make compatible trading partners (unlike most of the teams discussed in trade proposals).

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12-17-2006, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michigan Wolverine View Post
With the cap space you seem to have, you could afford to take on Norstrom. He has a hefty contract that goes on another year, but he's definitely a solid defensive defenseman and a character guy.

Alternatively, Aaron Miller would be cheap, is an upcoming UFA, and wouldn't hurt your cap space for next season, in case you're worried about re-signing Hartnell, etc. I'm not sure you'd value him as a "#2/3 guy," but it's a question of what you think you can afford.

In terms of trade, the Preds seem to have what the Kings would be looking for, namely young near-NHL-ready defensemen, someone who could step in next year on the LA blueline.

You guys should post some offers on the Kings board or the trade rumors board. It sounds like LA and Nashville would make compatible trading partners (unlike most of the teams discussed in trade proposals).
I think Miller is more or less a "last resort, all other options have fallen through" acquisition. How much would a player like Norstrom cost because he seems like the type of guy the Kings should hold on to in a rebuilding effort. Would a Kevin Klein + package be a good starting point?

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12-17-2006, 03:46 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeyClause View Post
I think Miller is more or less a "last resort, all other options have fallen through" acquisition. How much would a player like Norstrom cost because he seems like the type of guy the Kings should hold on to in a rebuilding effort. Would a Kevin Klein + package be a good starting point?
First off, I won't pretend to know your prospects well enough to say.

I will say that while Crawford seems to utilize puck-moving "offensive" defensemen well, we seem to have a fair number of these already (Sopel, Tverdovsky, Dallman, Harrold). Dallman and Harrold are young, cheap, and small with perhaps limited upside, but they're NHL-caliber right now. So we can only have so many of these guys around at a given time. (And I bet we re-sign Sopel.)

Is it safe to say that Klein is on the small side and primarily an offensive defenseman? If he had serious upside, maybe he'd be valuable to the Kings, but if he looks more like a #4-6 guy who's maybe a PP specialist, I don't think he'd be valued.

How much is Norstrom worth? I imagine the opinions will vary widely, so you'd best survey a few more opinions than just mine. It matters how you view his contract (reasonable given his ability, or a hindrance given the cap figure?), concerns about his age (he's been healthy and hasn't slowed, but he is close to the end), etc. And looking at what you guys paid for Witt last year... well, I think it's safe to say that Norstrom is better than Witt, though the circumstances are obviously a bit different.

Out of curiosity, why do you guys have so much cap space left? Is ownership containing costs? Would they be willing to add salary? I think that definitely matters in assessing how much interest you'd have in Norstrom. $4.25 million is nothing to sneeze at.

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Old
12-17-2006, 03:57 PM
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It's worth noting the defensive market last year was VERY bad, at the deadline\in the offseason...whereas it looks more like a buyers' market, this year. I don't think you'll see an overpay like we ponied up for Witt.

As for Klein, I could see him being available..but he's more of a two-way guy than you're envisioning. Think of Dan Hamhuis-lite. I also would say that he's likely already NHL-ready.

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12-17-2006, 04:19 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
It's worth noting the defensive market last year was VERY bad, at the deadline\in the offseason...whereas it looks more like a buyers' market, this year. I don't think you'll see an overpay like we ponied up for Witt.

As for Klein, I could see him being available..but he's more of a two-way guy than you're envisioning. Think of Dan Hamhuis-lite. I also would say that he's likely already NHL-ready.
Hmm. Well, I'm not sure that "Dan Hamhuis-lite" would garner a Norstrom. But you make a good point about this year's market, which is why I think that the Kings would be smart to keep him this year and deal him at next year's deadline unless a team was willing to pay them as if the extra year on Norstrom's contract were a positive, not a negative. So it matters greatly what the team's financial situation is, and how they view an older guy like Norstrom. His veteran leadership probably isn't as valuable to Nashville as it might be elsewhere.

Adding a player to the conversation, the Kings could easily package Conroy if you're looking for a center. He might not bump Legwand as your #2, but would make an outstanding #3 centerman with the depth of talent you guys have on the wings. The same caveats apply with Conroy, namely that he's older and has a year left on his contract, the latter being a reason that I was surprised about all the talk of unloading him this year, given the lack of forward depth in LA.

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Old
12-17-2006, 04:32 PM
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I really like the way Vasichek has played as that 3rd line center with Harts and Radulov, plus he's 6'5"

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12-17-2006, 05:16 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
It's worth noting the defensive market last year was VERY bad, at the deadline\in the offseason...whereas it looks more like a buyers' market, this year. I don't think you'll see an overpay like we ponied up for Witt.

As for Klein, I could see him being available..but he's more of a two-way guy than you're envisioning. Think of Dan Hamhuis-lite. I also would say that he's likely already NHL-ready.
I agree that Klein is Hammer-lite. He seems to play the same type of game. He hits pretty hard for his size and is not afraid to throw his body around. He also moves the puck pretty well. Still not sure why we have Zanon up here over Klein, but I am pretty high on Klein, so I may not be using an objective opinion. Klein and a all too familiar 2nd. Would the Preds do this? Don't know how high the Preds are on Klein.

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