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MTL/EDM Proposal

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Old
12-09-2006, 12:53 PM
  #1
mrinsane
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MTL/EDM Proposal

To MTL : M-A Bergeron+Shawn Horcoff+Fernando Pisani

VS

To EDM: Sheldon Souray+Sergei Samsonov+mid level prospect or pick

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Old
12-09-2006, 01:14 PM
  #2
Cerebral
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Edmonton cannot afford to move their two best even strength/defensive forwards in Pisani and Horcoff. Horcoff is an absolute beast for the Oilers playing about 25 minutes a night over the past few games, Samsonov can't even come close to filling his role in the lineup. Souray would be a great addition to the Oilers but this trade makes no sense.

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Old
12-09-2006, 01:17 PM
  #3
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the only good here is Edmonton loses MAB>

Souray is UFA. Samsonov sucks. Horcoff and Pisani are good two way player. Not a good deal for Edmonotn

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Old
12-09-2006, 01:26 PM
  #4
Blind Gardien
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The reason we'd want to be moving Samsonov is so that we can *keep* Souray. Trading both of them together is kinda pointless. The Habs simply cannot afford to trade Souray. (At least not for any package that any other team is likely to feel inclined to offer for him, which in any event the above package doesn't seem to be).

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Old
12-09-2006, 02:49 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insane666 View Post
To MTL : M-A Bergeron+Shawn Horcoff+Fernando Pisani

VS

To EDM: Sheldon Souray+Sergei Samsonov+mid level prospect or pick
Sorry dude but that's a very bad proposal.

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Old
12-09-2006, 02:51 PM
  #6
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i would do this in a heartbeat if i were the oilers

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Old
12-09-2006, 03:19 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Oil4Cup View Post
i would do this in a heartbeat if i were the oilers
why do we need sammy back? that too for 3.5M.. horc brings much more then samsonov for the same price. souray will be demanding ~5M after this year.. 1 year of souray isnt worth giving up pisani + MAB (3.5M for a super 3rd line checker + a bottom pairing PP specialist who has picked up his game)

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12-09-2006, 03:31 PM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Oil4Cup View Post
i would do this in a heartbeat if i were the oilers
Hmmm, glad you aren't our GM then.

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Old
12-09-2006, 06:45 PM
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How about Ryder and Souray for Torres and Schremp?

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Old
12-09-2006, 06:49 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by TheConeman View Post
How about Ryder and Souray for Torres and Schremp?
Come on in and sit down. That is worth talking about.

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Old
12-10-2006, 12:47 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheConeman View Post
How about Ryder and Souray for Torres and Schremp?
From a Habs fan point of view, he'll do it.


We can fix our PP without Souray to open more room for fowards, because right now all of the PP is focused on the blue line. Ryder is better offensivly then Torres but Raffi got a better all arround game, throw nice hit, he can put 20-25 goals.

Schremp is a decent prospect, but no room for him right now, prospect like Grabovsky and Kostitsyn are ahead of him in the AHL level.

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Old
12-10-2006, 01:09 AM
  #12
TheConeman
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Originally Posted by CH Iggins View Post
From a Habs fan point of view, he'll do it.


We can fix our PP without Souray to open more room for fowards, because right now all of the PP is focused on the blue line. Ryder is better offensivly then Torres but Raffi got a better all arround game, throw nice hit, he can put 20-25 goals.

Schremp is a decent prospect, but no room for him right now, prospect like Grabovsky and Kostitsyn are ahead of him in the AHL level.
I figure it would benifit both teams. MTL gets a good player in Torres and IMO Schremp would fit in well on the second line there and should at least get a shot right away. Also Souray would be a great fit for EDM and Ryder would fit in great with Sykora and Hemsky seeing as he's a better goal scorer than Torres.

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Old
12-10-2006, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insane666 View Post
To MTL : M-A Bergeron+Shawn Horcoff+Fernando Pisani

VS

To EDM: Sheldon Souray+Sergei Samsonov+mid level prospect or pick

This is just terrible.

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Old
12-10-2006, 03:46 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insane666 View Post
To MTL : M-A Bergeron+Shawn Horcoff+Fernando Pisani

VS

To EDM: Sheldon Souray+Sergei Samsonov+mid level prospect or pick
As much as Edmonton would like Souray in their lineup, it wont be at the expense of Horcoff, Bergeron and Pisani. You won't get three roster players for a guy who could walk at seasons end. Samsonov is not wanted in EDM. He was a huge flop in the playoffs and Habs fans will see what the Oilers saw in him last year.

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Old
12-10-2006, 03:55 PM
  #15
guapo23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheConeman View Post
How about Ryder and Souray for Torres and Schremp?
Terrible deal from MTL standpoint.

RYDER - TORRES :
We lose a pure 30 goal scorer in Ryder and get a guy with much less offensive flair but who is better defensively.

MTL needs goal scorers or a big center: they have enough 2 way guys & wingers.
Ryder is way more valuable to his team than Torres.

SOURAY - SCHREMP
We lose an All Star veteran D for a prospect.
Why would we want to give up the guy who is winning us games for a prospect ? We have alot of youth playing now & in the AHL.

I would rather lose Souray as a UFA and get to have him for the playoffs cup run than deal an awesome veteran D for a prospect.

Who knows, maybe re-signing him won't be that hard...

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Old
12-10-2006, 04:22 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guapo23 View Post
Terrible deal from MTL standpoint.

RYDER - TORRES :
We lose a pure 30 goal scorer in Ryder and get a guy with much less offensive flair but who is better defensively.

MTL needs goal scorers or a big center: they have enough 2 way guys & wingers.
Ryder is way more valuable to his team than Torres.

SOURAY - SCHREMP
We lose an All Star veteran D for a prospect.
Why would we want to give up the guy who is winning us games for a prospect ? We have alot of youth playing now & in the AHL.

I would rather lose Souray as a UFA and get to have him for the playoffs cup run than deal an awesome veteran D for a prospect.

Who knows, maybe re-signing him won't be that hard...
Torres got 27/20 goals in his past 2 seasons. He's better defensively and hits like a bull, and younger.

Torres > Ryder.

Souray is nice, but a rental doesn't get you a teams top prospect.

MTL would have to add more.

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Old
12-10-2006, 06:23 PM
  #17
guapo23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Polak View Post
Torres got 27/20 goals in his past 2 seasons. He's better defensively and hits like a bull, and younger.

Torres > Ryder.

Souray is nice, but a rental doesn't get you a teams top prospect.

MTL would have to add more.

RYDER : Born Mar 31, 1980
GP G A P +/-
NHL 05-06 81 30 25 55 -5
NHL 03-04 81 25 38 63 +10

TORRES : Born Oct 8, 1981
GP G A P +/-
NHL 05-06 82 27 14 41 +4
NHL 03-04 80 20 14 34 +12


Torres is only 1 year and a half younger.

Ryder had almost double the points of Torres in 03-04 (Ryder's rookie season).

Ryder had 14 more points in 05-06 and scored 30 goals.

Therefore, Ryder > Torres

If you want Ryder you will have to add more.
But we don't need Torres anyway, we need a big scoring center.

I wouldn't trade Souray for a prospect regardless.
He is currently one the top defenseman in the league.
Players like him are hard to find.

I think Gainey would risk losing him as an UFA in order to have him for the playoffs.

Any team that wants Souray for a cup run will have to pay dearly to get him because the Habs need him for the playoffs.

If you think you can get a D like him as a cheap rental you will have to trade with teams who will not be making the playoffs.

Why would the habs sabotage their own cup run ?

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Old
12-10-2006, 07:56 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insane666 View Post
To MTL : M-A Bergeron+Shawn Horcoff+Fernando Pisani

VS

To EDM: Sheldon Souray+Sergei Samsonov+mid level prospect or pick

Stop making proposals

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Old
12-10-2006, 08:26 PM
  #19
Chayos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guapo23 View Post
RYDER : Born Mar 31, 1980
GP G A P +/-
NHL 05-06 81 30 25 55 -5
NHL 03-04 81 25 38 63 +10

TORRES : Born Oct 8, 1981
GP G A P +/-
NHL 05-06 82 27 14 41 +4
NHL 03-04 80 20 14 34 +12


Torres is only 1 year and a half younger.

Ryder had almost double the points of Torres in 03-04 (Ryder's rookie season).

Ryder had 14 more points in 05-06 and scored 30 goals.

Therefore, Ryder > Torres

If you want Ryder you will have to add more.
But we don't need Torres anyway, we need a big scoring center.

I wouldn't trade Souray for a prospect regardless.
He is currently one the top defenseman in the league.
Players like him are hard to find.

I think Gainey would risk losing him as an UFA in order to have him for the playoffs.

Any team that wants Souray for a cup run will have to pay dearly to get him because the Habs need him for the playoffs.

If you think you can get a D like him as a cheap rental you will have to trade with teams who will not be making the playoffs.

Why would the habs sabotage their own cup run ?
Well as a fan of your own team it's easy to over value you own players, but I have another question for you. Is a player who scores less points for his team than he costs them really as valuable as you think? Ryder is -17 over the last 2 seasons incl playoffs, where as Torres is +13 over the same period. Ryder can score a few more timely points in games but Torres can change the complexion of a playoff series with his physical play, just ask Michalek and SJ what they think of Torres.

Your little stats comparison was missing Ryders plus minus deficencies. He may have scored 14 more points than Torres, but he also let his opponents score 5 more goals when he was on the ice than he created. If you take a look at one small portion of a players ability and base your complete evaluation on those stats then you can make anyone look good, but to do a fair evaluation of the 2 players you need to look at all aspects of both players games and decide which player is better then. I think Ryder is a bit better scorer than Torres, but Ryder gets approx 3 mins more ice time on average too, which would problable give Torres a few more points too. Torres is a much better than Ryder defensively as shown by his plus/minus. Torres hits like a truck and dominates games with his physical play, where as Ryder is as soft as silk and bring very little physical play.

I am not going to say Torres is better than Ryder, because I think that we all know that now, but I will say you should buy some less rose colored glasses.


Last edited by Chayos: 12-10-2006 at 08:29 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old
12-10-2006, 10:04 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insane666 View Post
To MTL : M-A Bergeron+Shawn Horcoff+Fernando Pisani

VS

To EDM: Sheldon Souray+Sergei Samsonov+mid level prospect or pick
Problem would be Samsonov's commments

he would not be a hapy camper in Edmonton and the last thing the oilers need is a player who the fan know does not want to be in the city

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Old
12-11-2006, 10:39 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheConeman View Post
How about Ryder and Souray for Torres and Schremp?
No thanks from this Habs fan. We need Ryder's scoring touch more than we need Torres' other contributions. And we aren't in a position to trade Souray for futures. This is not even a remotely interesting deal for the Habs. I would have thought it had been well-established already that there simply is no MTL-EDM fit. Souray isn't available, and there isn't anything else Edmonton would want or need from us.

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Old
12-11-2006, 11:14 AM
  #22
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How about Torres and Schremp for Markov then

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12-11-2006, 11:17 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insane666 View Post
To MTL : M-A Bergeron+Shawn Horcoff+Fernando Pisani

VS

To EDM: Sheldon Souray+Sergei Samsonov+mid level prospect or pick
Regardless of talent involved, I don't think that MON would want to tie up 7+M of cap room in those guys for the next 4 years.

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Old
12-11-2006, 11:23 AM
  #24
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How about Torres and Schremp for Markov then
No. Unless a team really overpays, Markov isn't going anywhere.

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Old
12-11-2006, 11:24 AM
  #25
Blind Gardien
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How about Torres and Schremp for Markov then
Personally, I think Markov is just as unavailable as Souray. In any event, either one of them would have to cost something massive and something with immediately tangible effects, to the extent that it makes no sense for anybody to try to get them from us. Torres and Schremp wouldn't be close. A prospect like Schremp would have extremely little value to the Habs (regardless of what any prospect-lusting HFBoards denizens think). Those kinds of considerations mean that any team trying to bid on Markov or Souray would just have to offer so much that it becomes completely impossible from the other side.

Impending free agency just isn't an issue for a team that wants to be a contender. We need them through this season and in the playoffs. Then either we'll re-sign them in the summer, or we'll get equally valuable cap space in exchange for them. Nothing you would be willing to offer us could match that.

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