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Bill Clement: Calder to Chicago for Jim Vandermeer. (rumor)

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Old
12-12-2006, 05:10 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by kz View Post
if calder continues to play like this his value is going to go way down with each and every game he plays. No one will trade for him near the deadline if he has 10pts in 60 games. I say get rid of him now while he may have some value left.
No, someone will trade for him if he is made available. We wouldn't get more than a 3rd round pick if someone is desperate, but someone would take the chance because by the trade deadline the prorated cap hit is minimal.

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12-12-2006, 05:16 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
No, someone will trade for him if he is made available. We wouldn't get more than a 3rd round pick if someone is desperate, but someone would take the chance because by the trade deadline the prorated cap hit is minimal.
So youre saying if your team (the kings for example) are heading into the playoffs you would like to have calder in the lineup (assuming he continues poor play throughout the remainder of the season)?

I don't see it

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12-12-2006, 05:17 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by rockit View Post
i hear what you're saying, but value does he have now to begin with?
Well, i was operating under the assumption that Calder could land Vandermeer

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12-12-2006, 05:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by kz View Post
So youre saying if your team (the kings for example) are heading into the playoffs you would like to have calder in the lineup (assuming he continues poor play throughout the remainder of the season)?

I don't see it
If it's for a low price I'd do it. If I was another team I wouldn't give up any more than a 5th round pick. The insurance would be nice, I wouldn't expect much if anything. It would be low risk/high reward for another team.

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12-12-2006, 05:33 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Steve L View Post
Resign Zues after this season and then that means we got Zhamnov for free a couple of years ago?
Better than a free, we got Chicago to pay Zeus' wages for us when he was injured!

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Old
12-12-2006, 09:17 PM
  #31
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My reponse to this trade is why bother? Are we trying to salvage whatever is left of a season????

Let the kids play and see what they will bring to this team. That way, we know what we have to do in the offseason as far as signing dmen. We need skill guys back on defense like Picard and Timonen. We have Hatcher, and Gauthier when he comes back in the physical stay at home role. I rather wait and sign someone like Chris Phillips next year.

If we brought in Vandemeer and all are healthy we have the following:

Pitkanen Gauthier
Hatcher Meyer
Vandemeer Jones
Picard Timonen

Last I checked, all those guys are signed for next year (except Pitkanen but I doubt he goes anywhere).

Where does that leave us to sign a FA or give the younger guys a chance to fight for a roster spot? Unless we trade Meyer or Jones but I rather have Meyer then Vandemeer.

I understand we arent going to get much for Calder at this point. Sure, Vandemeer will come in here and help us this year by being an actual NHL player, but we, unfortunately, need to start thinking about next year.


Last edited by mikedifr: 12-12-2006 at 09:50 PM.
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Old
12-12-2006, 09:33 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston Wolf View Post
Vandermeer has a place in this Flyers lineup now and in the future. Neither are true for Kyle Calder with his play at the moment.
Seconded.

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Old
12-12-2006, 10:06 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockit View Post
What is it with players leaving chicago and being worse? Mark Bell?
Hey Bell has at least like 5 goals... (but 4 came in like the first few weeks of the season).

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Old
12-12-2006, 10:09 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
If we brought in Vandemeer and all are healthy we have the following:

Pitkanen Gauthier
Hatcher Meyer
Vandemeer Jones
Picard Timonen
Vandermeer is a physical stay at home defensemen who can put up at least 30 points on a good team. He also fights better than most enforcers. He is better than everyone there except Pitkanen.

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Old
12-12-2006, 10:10 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kz View Post
if calder continues to play like this his value is going to go way down with each and every game he plays. No one will trade for him near the deadline if he has 10pts in 60 games. I say get rid of him now while he may have some value left.
I totally agree with you on this one. If "COLDER" continues to get colder if thats at all possible he will be totally worthless at the trade deadline. Trade him now while some teams still think he may turn it around even if it is for a pick or prospect. Its better than walking away completely emptyhanded. Build for the future right? Not dwell on the past.

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Old
12-12-2006, 10:17 PM
  #36
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[QUOTE=mikedifr;7338426]My reponse to this trade is why bother? Are we trying to salvage whatever is left of a season????


Why bother ?? Why FN bother ?? Cause if the Flyers wait to long they may just get sweet FA for "COLDER". No one is saying that "IF" the Flyers get healthy they cant trade anyone of these defensemen. But at least they would have something to show for Mr. Invisible. Beggers cant be choosers right about now. Its not like its only 10 games into the season anymore. Cut our losses/losers and start the rebuild

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Old
12-12-2006, 10:17 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by easton122 View Post
Vandermeer is a physical stay at home defensemen who can put up at least 30 points on a good team. He also fights better than most enforcers. He is better than everyone there except Pitkanen.
Who cares about fighing? We already have enough of that. We need a D who will be able to play against players like Crosby, Malkin, Jagr, Gomez,etc etc. Vandermeer won't be ale to shut down those guys if he could why would Chicago give him up? If we can not trade for one we must draft one.

Vandermeer can score 30 points? On this team? Are you kidding?

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Old
12-12-2006, 10:40 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by easton122 View Post
Vandermeer is a physical stay at home defensemen who can put up at least 30 points on a good team. He also fights better than most enforcers. He is better than everyone there except Pitkanen.
I dont agree with that at all, sorry. He is a physical stay at home dman. So is Hatcher, so is Gauthier, so is Meyer to an extent. So is Chris Phillips who I can have for free next year. So is Corey Sarich.

He is better then Jones, I will call him equal to Meyer because each offers something the other doesnt Meyer = speed, Vandemeer = Size. Hatcher is debateable at this point.

1) How do you move Hatcher's contract?
2) Gautheir may be tradable, but why move him?

We bring in a dman like him, we are creating very little flexibility for next year. I say pass.

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Old
12-13-2006, 12:08 PM
  #39
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I highly doubt we can get Vandermeer for Calder. Like everyone said, Calder is playing awfull and has a big contract. If we can get a 3rd round pick for him this organization would do it simply for salary dump. How exactly can we get Phillips for free next year? He will want to be paid a good bit of cash. Your logic says keep Calder ($$=no return) and sign Philips ($$=good defenceman). This is an opportunity to unload salary for a guy that would be a good second pairing defenceman. This is a no brainer, the only reason this has come up is Chicago must believe he will return to form. No other team would do this trade for the same calabur defenceman in return. If this is a real offer we must run with it and not look back!

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Old
12-13-2006, 11:02 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by King Fish View Post
I highly doubt we can get Vandermeer for Calder. Like everyone said, Calder is playing awfull and has a big contract. If we can get a 3rd round pick for him this organization would do it simply for salary dump. How exactly can we get Phillips for free next year? He will want to be paid a good bit of cash. Your logic says keep Calder ($$=no return) and sign Philips ($$=good defenceman). This is an opportunity to unload salary for a guy that would be a good second pairing defenceman. This is a no brainer, the only reason this has come up is Chicago must believe he will return to form. No other team would do this trade for the same calabur defenceman in return. If this is a real offer we must run with it and not look back!
Are you trying to tell me that Vandemeer equals Phillips? Or the other FAs out there for that matter?? I think you are seriously overrating him. He is a good dman. Thats it.

Look, this move makes perfect sense for THIS YEAR. I want flexibiity next year for young guys and FAs to be signed on defense. I dont want to go into the year with 6 guys under contract, when a couple are hard to move. Obviously we disagree on philosophy here. IMO, the Flyers need to build a team like Buffalo, Tampa, Edmonton has, building from within and signing a guy here and there to help. The one luxury we have this year is that we can afford to play the young guys cause we are not going anywhere.

By the way, I never said dont trade Calder. I am all for moving him, just not for Vandemeer. So therefore, you are wrong on my "logic"

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Old
12-13-2006, 11:08 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Are you trying to tell me that Vandemeer equals Phillips? Or the other FAs out there for that matter?? I think you are seriously overrating him. He is a good dman. Thats it.

Look, this move makes perfect sense for THIS YEAR. I want flexibiity next year for young guys and FAs to be signed on defense. I dont want to go into the year with 6 guys under contract, when a couple are hard to move. Obviously we disagree on philosophy here. IMO, the Flyers need to build a team like Buffalo, Tampa, Edmonton has, building from within and signing a guy here and there to help. The one luxury we have this year is that we can afford to play the young guys cause we are not going anywhere.

By the way, I never said dont trade Calder. I am all for moving him, just not for Vandemeer. So therefore, you are wrong on my "logic"
Seconded. Well said.

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Old
12-13-2006, 11:18 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Who cares about fighing? We already have enough of that. We need a D who will be able to play against players like Crosby, Malkin, Jagr, Gomez,etc etc. Vandermeer won't be ale to shut down those guys if he could why would Chicago give him up? If we can not trade for one we must draft one.

Vandermeer can score 30 points? On this team? Are you kidding?
Vandermeer will do a good job defending against those players with his grit. Storm pointed it out in another thread. Most of the star players today don't have the composure to battle through checks for their points, without doing something stupid or disappearing completely. With that said, he will still get beat just like everyone else on this roster, but on a much less frequent basis.

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12-13-2006, 11:29 PM
  #43
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What team do you think is drooling over calder? Get a grip, he's a continuing suckfest and makes a tad less than 3 mil. Do you honestly think hawks are saying, " golly gee I wish we never let him go"?? Someone has to want him.

Clement smokin that wacky weed again. Chicago is not going to trade a top 4 d-amn for an extremely overpriced player that, well, what does he (calder) bring to the table??
Flyers are stuck with him.

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Old
12-14-2006, 12:10 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Are you trying to tell me that Vandemeer equals Phillips? Or the other FAs out there for that matter?? I think you are seriously overrating him. He is a good dman. Thats it.

Look, this move makes perfect sense for THIS YEAR. I want flexibiity next year for young guys and FAs to be signed on defense. I dont want to go into the year with 6 guys under contract, when a couple are hard to move. Obviously we disagree on philosophy here. IMO, the Flyers need to build a team like Buffalo, Tampa, Edmonton has, building from within and signing a guy here and there to help. The one luxury we have this year is that we can afford to play the young guys cause we are not going anywhere.

By the way, I never said dont trade Calder. I am all for moving him, just not for Vandemeer. So therefore, you are wrong on my "logic"
Who do you think we can get for Calder? You stated yourself that Vandermeer is a good defenceman, so again why would you not trade a player who has 1 goal and making 3mill per year for him?! We can still sign a FA defenceman next year. Vandermeer would help us this year and next. We have Picard,Jonson,Timonen,Meyer who could easily be replaced.

Pitkanen-Hatcher
Vandermeer-Good FA
Gautheir-Picard
Meyer,Jonson,Timonen 7th dmen take your pic

We will have Rathje 3.5 and Calder 3mill off the books.

We will have to agree to disagree, but I think Vandermeer would help now and for a few years to come (he's like 26 or 27). We would also have all the flexibility with our cap situation.

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Old
12-14-2006, 12:16 AM
  #45
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the way i see it, bring in Vandermeer remove Hatcher somehow by next year, bring in Phillips, have Phillips-Pitkanen and Vandermeer-(whoever the hell u want here) and boom our D looks an assload better

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Old
12-14-2006, 12:31 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by King Fish View Post
Who do you think we can get for Calder? You stated yourself that Vandermeer is a good defenceman, so again why would you not trade a player who has 1 goal and making 3mill per year for him?! We can still sign a FA defenceman next year. Vandermeer would help us this year and next. We have Picard,Jonson,Timonen,Meyer who could easily be replaced.

Pitkanen-Hatcher
Vandermeer-Good FA
Gautheir-Picard
Meyer,Jonson,Timonen 7th dmen take your pic

We will have Rathje 3.5 and Calder 3mill off the books.

We will have to agree to disagree, but I think Vandermeer would help now and for a few years to come (he's like 26 or 27). We would also have all the flexibility with our cap situation.
I have explained 100 times why I would not trade for him. I can see people not agreeing with my philosophy, but to not understand why I wouldnt do it is ridicuolous. (I mean that in general, not directed at you personally)

Let me try this one more time:

A) This year is a complete wash
2) We have several young dmen on the cusp of making the NHL. Let them play this year in a meaningless year, and see what they are going to offer us.
C) Going into next year (with Pitkanen resigning) we would then have 6 dmen under contract that could not be sent to the minors (Pitkanen, Hatcher, Meyer, Gauthier, Jones, Vandemeer) Sure, you can trade Jones or Meyer but I think Meyer is just as good anyway, and what the hell are we going to get for Jones??? Also, Hatcher is going to be near impossible to get rid of. If his salary was coming off the books, I would be all for it. With 6 NHL dmen under contract, you need to move two of them to sign someone and bring up Picard who will most likely be ready.
4) We are talking about Jim *$&% Vandemeer here people. He is a decent #4 dman in this league, prob a #5 on a good team. What is he going to do for us this year other then we lose our games 4-2 instead of 6-2????

E) My philosophy for building this team back into a contender is simple. Play the youngsters, let them take their lumps, determine who is going to be on this team next year. This is what the good teams of the last few years have done. Next year, this team has a lot of flexibility to play with in regards to # of players under contract and money available. Why screw around with that for Jim #*$* Vandemeer?

6) Dont trade Calder now when his value is at its worst. (credit to Jester for mentioning this many times) Regardless of what we think about him, he is a legit 2nd line player in the NHL. Sometimes players just have a bad year for no reason at all, or do not fit with a certain team. With his contract expiring this year, I guarantee you there will be a team that would take a chance on him at the end of the year for some secondary scoring. I rather get a prospect or picks for him and have the flexibility in the offseason.

Again, I cant say this enough, "we are talking about Jim #*$%*%& Vandemeer" Geez. You would think we were brining in Wade Redden.

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Old
12-14-2006, 03:51 AM
  #47
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the way i see it, bring in Vandermeer remove Hatcher somehow by next year, bring in Phillips, have Phillips-Pitkanen and Vandermeer-(whoever the hell u want here) and boom our D looks an assload better
do you honestly think we could sell Phillips to come here in the offseason? he is going to get offers from teams in much better shape then we are. We are going to overpay to get Phillips to come to this team in this current state.

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12-14-2006, 12:02 PM
  #48
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Maybe it was the same source that said Forsberg would be traded within 48 hours....three weeks ago.

I'm not sure if a quote/denial from Holmgren has been posted but here is one:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/ne...06-755198.html

Holmgren: No trades on the horizon

GM Paul Holmgren shot down a trade rumor which had the Flyers dealing goal-less Kyle Calder to the Chicago Blackhawks in exchange for former Flyer defenseman Jim Vandermeer.

Anything else on the burner?

“Nothing close enough to talk about,” Holmgren said.

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