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Dave Scatchard proposal.

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Old
11-27-2003, 12:16 PM
  #1
zetta20
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Dave Scatchard proposal.

what would it take to aquire Dave Scatchard ? we could put him at center between Booter and McCarty,and put Homer on the grind line.We hav'nt had 2 physical checking lines since Kocur, Sandstrom,backed up the grind line in our '97 cup run.

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11-27-2003, 12:19 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zetta20
what would it take to aquire Dave Scatchard ? we could put him at center between Booter and McCarty,and put Homer on the grind line.We hav'nt had 2 physical checking lines since Kocur, Sandstrom,backed up the grind line in our '97 cup run.

Scatch makes somewhere around 1.5 million (I think the actual number is 1.3). He is seriously underpaid.

Why would the Isles trade him?

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11-27-2003, 01:25 PM
  #3
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I don't see a match. Isles would be looking for younger CHEAP asset(s) in return. Wings that fit that criteria are either too valuable (Zett, Dats, Fischer) for Detroit to move for Scatchard, or insufficient return for NYI (Hudler, Kopecky, Kronwall, Fleischmann).

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11-27-2003, 01:59 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
I don't see a match. Isles would be looking for younger CHEAP asset(s) in return. Wings that fit that criteria are either too valuable (Zett, Dats, Fischer) for Detroit to move for Scatchard, or insufficient return for NYI (Hudler, Kopecky, Kronwall, Fleischmann).

I agree.

Scatchard alone won't bring back an impact player or stud prospect,so I expect the isles would use him in a package.

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11-27-2003, 02:15 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
I don't see a match. Isles would be looking for younger CHEAP asset(s) in return. Wings that fit that criteria are either too valuable (Zett, Dats, Fischer) for Detroit to move for Scatchard, or insufficient return for NYI (Hudler, Kopecky, Kronwall, Fleischmann).
In reality Peca would be moved to the wings first (not that I would condone the moving of Peca).

He would bring more to the table for the wings and get the isles a better player back.

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11-27-2003, 04:03 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiki
In reality Peca would be moved to the wings first (not that I would condone the moving of Peca).

He would bring more to the table for the wings and get the isles a better player back.
Good point Tiki. Interestingly Peca would only be preferrable over Scatcahrd for a select number of teams, I'm guessing, given fiscal realities in today's NHL. That is, Peca's contract makes sense for a contender, only.

As an NYI fan, I would settle for nothing less in return for Peca than one of the three marquee young players mentioned previously. And I don't think Detroit would move Dats, Zett or Fischer for him.

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11-27-2003, 04:14 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Good point Tiki. Interestingly Peca would only be preferrable over Scatcahrd for a select number of teams, I'm guessing, given fiscal realities in today's NHL. That is, Peca's contract makes sense for a contender, only.

As an NYI fan, I would settle for nothing less in return for Peca than one of the three marquee young players mentioned previously. And I don't think Detroit would move Dats, Zett or Fischer for him.
Nah. Detroit sending off Z, Dats or Fischer for Peca would sort of defeat the purpose of trying to get him really.
However, I would give Jason Williams and a first for Scatchard and a 2nd or a 3rd.
What MM would ask for Peca I wouldn't be willing to pay if I was Detroit since it would involve some of their marquee prospects, younger star players and/or picks.

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11-27-2003, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PigPen
Nah. Detroit sending off Z, Dats or Fischer for Peca would sort of defeat the purpose of trying to get him really.
However, I would give Jason Williams and a first for Scatchard and a 2nd or a 3rd.
What MM would ask for Peca I wouldn't be willing to pay if I was Detroit since it would involve some of their marquee prospects, younger star players and/or picks.



no thanks.I wouldn't want Williams as the key return for Scatchard and that first will be a late first.

I'd rather add Scatchard to a package and get an impact player back.

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11-27-2003, 04:29 PM
  #9
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I'm not sure MM could get more for Peca than he could for Scatchard anyway. Washington has been itching for a rumored fire sale for quite awhile, yet who have they been able to move? Konowalchuk? No one was willing to trade any assets for Weimer, who could have helped quite a few teams. Same with Malhotra. If teams are unwilling to take on those small salaries, moving a player like Peca (or Lang. Or Cujo) who make quite a bit more and who are signed past this season could require a GM being bent over the barrel and selling far under value if he wants to move a player off the payroll that badly.

If MM (or any GM) attempts to move a player like Peca, they will recieve far less in compensation than a player of Zetterberg, Datsyuk or Fischer's value unless that team is also willing to eat a substantial amount of salary. Even them I think it will be a hard sell.


Last edited by Winger98: 11-27-2003 at 04:33 PM.
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11-27-2003, 07:41 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98
If MM (or any GM) attempts to move a player like Peca, they will recieve far less in compensation than a player of Zetterberg, Datsyuk or Fischer's value unless that team is also willing to eat a substantial amount of salary. Even them I think it will be a hard sell.
Likely true, for the reasons you cite. Except it is worth noting that the value of players such as Peca can increase immeasurably in March (trade deadline) vs. November, among teams going for the Cup. Even in a warped economic environment and even if the player has years left on his contract.

True, Isles would not receive the Detroit players you and I mentioned. And Peca would not be dealt for "lesser" players unless it was a strict salary dump. There is at least one Isles' fan holding out hope that will not be the case. :p

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11-27-2003, 08:31 PM
  #11
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I don't see the Islanders moving Scathard. He's a really good player that makes under 2 million. If the Isles are still cost-cutting there are plenty of other guys that would go before him.

Detroit doesn't have much to offer in terms of good younger players. The best available IMO would be Hudler and Kopecky.

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11-28-2003, 04:36 AM
  #12
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How about:

Miro Satan

for

Peca
Scatchard

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11-28-2003, 06:09 AM
  #13
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Not bad

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
How about:

Miro Satan

for

Peca
Scatchard

but add Mckee and we will throw in a 2nd and u have a deal.

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11-28-2003, 06:24 AM
  #14
CREW99AW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
How about:

Miro Satan

for

Peca
Scatchard

I'd love to have Satan playing for the isles,but I expect any player coming back to LI to have a much lower salary then Satan's $5m salary.

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11-28-2003, 07:04 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
How about:

Miro Satan

for

Peca
Scatchard
Can't see the Isles moving Peca and Scatchard in the same deal. It would leave them too thin at center.

Jim Bob, I'm curious, how do you think Peca would be received if he ever came back to Buffalo as a player? Do fans generally blame him or management for the holdout?

 
Old
11-28-2003, 08:43 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickyz
Can't see the Isles moving Peca and Scatchard in the same deal. It would leave them too thin at center.

Jim Bob, I'm curious, how do you think Peca would be received if he ever came back to Buffalo as a player? Do fans generally blame him or management for the holdout?
I blame Rigas. I think Peca would be well-regarded.

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11-28-2003, 11:12 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Scatch makes somewhere around 1.5 million (I think the actual number is 1.3). He is seriously underpaid.

Why would the Isles trade him?
According to NHLPA.com, Scatchard is getting $1.4M this year.
As far as his talent goes, he certainly is good for the role he plays on the team, but I wouldn't call him seriously underpaid nor would I say that a player like him is necessarily hard to find. Mike Grier ($1.6M), Steve Konowalchuk ($1.6M), and Scott Thornton ($1.5M) all come to mind immediately as big men who play well defensively and can put the puck in the net on occassion, all for close to the same price of Scatchard who has a penchant for taking dumb-ass penalties. Maybe not a dime a dozen, but certainly not hard to find either.
I think that Detroit has enough muckers and garbage-men and probably wouldn't benefit all that much from getting a guy like Scatchard (though it would probably raise his sim-league value for me :p ).
I also find it strange that Jiri Hudler would be mentioned in the list of prospects that "wouldn't be enough" for Scatchard. While his production this year in the NHL has not been much to write home about, I would certainly take a flyer on Hudler packaged with a mid-round draft pick for Scatchard.

Just my two cents.

Edit - I can't spell Konowalchuk right.


Last edited by King of Stankonia: 11-28-2003 at 11:25 AM.
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Old
11-28-2003, 12:15 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubina_Fan
According to NHLPA.com, Scatchard is getting $1.4M this year.
As far as his talent goes, he certainly is good for the role he plays on the team, but I wouldn't call him seriously underpaid nor would I say that a player like him is necessarily hard to find. Mike Grier ($1.6M), Steve Konowalchuk ($1.6M), and Scott Thornton ($1.5M) all come to mind immediately as big men who play well defensively and can put the puck in the net on occassion, all for close to the same price of Scatchard who has a penchant for taking dumb-ass penalties. Maybe not a dime a dozen, but certainly not hard to find either.
I think that Detroit has enough muckers and garbage-men and probably wouldn't benefit all that much from getting a guy like Scatchard (though it would probably raise his sim-league value for me :p ).
I also find it strange that Jiri Hudler would be mentioned in the list of prospects that "wouldn't be enough" for Scatchard. While his production this year in the NHL has not been much to write home about, I would certainly take a flyer on Hudler packaged with a mid-round draft pick for Scatchard.

Just my two cents.

Edit - I can't spell Konowalchuk right.
i don't think grier, konowalchuk, or thornton should be compared with scatchard.

konowalchuk is 31 and even though most players this age are in their prime, it appears he is in decline. thornton is about to be 33 and, after his last season appears to be on the decline as well (although, admittedly injuries looked to be a factor here). grier, after putting the biscuit in the basket for the oilers earlier in his career seems to be declining too, despite the fact that he is only to turn 29 in january. furthermore, it is obvious that these players have maxed out in terms of production (although playing in colorado could do wonders for anyone's offensive numbers...including my own).

even though scatchard is 27 years old, i don't think he has hit the ceiling in terms of his all around game or point totals. the reason why i feel this way is that i've factored into this that he only had 6 pp points last year because he was the team's third line centre. i say if he is given second line ice time (perhaps 18-20 minutes per game instead of the 14:29 he averaged in 2002-2003), his point totals could continue to grow. let's not forget he notched 27 goals last season which, as we all know, is excellent production in today's nhl.

for these reasons, i believe scatchard's value is at an all time high right now and therefore should not be compared with the players mentioned above. now, could he land zetterberg? no. but, because he is due what is considered to be a reasonable salary, i can't see the isles moving him for second tier prospects. here, i agree with other isles fans: if scatchard is moved he would be packaged to bring back something substantial.

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Old
11-28-2003, 12:19 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zetta20
what would it take to aquire Dave Scatchard ? we could put him at center between Booter and McCarty,and put Homer on the grind line.We hav'nt had 2 physical checking lines since Kocur, Sandstrom,backed up the grind line in our '97 cup run.
The wings arent gonna trade mccarty... and booter has been great for us recently, no need to trade him either... nore holmstrom... makes no sense

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11-28-2003, 12:21 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvashinator12
but add Mckee and we will throw in a 2nd and u have a deal.
But that wouldn't cut any payroll and I thought that was the main driver of the talks of moving players like Scatchard and Peca????

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11-28-2003, 12:31 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zetterberg40
The wings arent gonna trade mccarty... and booter has been great for us recently, no need to trade him either... nore holmstrom... makes no sense
actually the post you are referring to makes no mention of trading mccarty, "booter", or holmstrom. and THANK GOODNESS!

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11-28-2003, 12:32 PM
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11-28-2003, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubina_Fan
According to NHLPA.com, Scatchard is getting $1.4M this year.
As far as his talent goes, he certainly is good for the role he plays on the team, but I wouldn't call him seriously underpaid nor would I say that a player like him is necessarily hard to find. Mike Grier ($1.6M), Steve Konowalchuk ($1.6M), and Scott Thornton ($1.5M) all come to mind immediately as big men who play well defensively and can put the puck in the net on occassion, all for close to the same price of Scatchard who has a penchant for taking dumb-ass penalties. Maybe not a dime a dozen, but certainly not hard to find either.
I think that Detroit has enough muckers and garbage-men and probably wouldn't benefit all that much from getting a guy like Scatchard (though it would probably raise his sim-league value for me :p ).
I also find it strange that Jiri Hudler would be mentioned in the list of prospects that "wouldn't be enough" for Scatchard. While his production this year in the NHL has not been much to write home about, I would certainly take a flyer on Hudler packaged with a mid-round draft pick for Scatchard.

Just my two cents.

Edit - I can't spell Konowalchuk right.

Scatch doens't take many dumb penalties. I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion.

Of those three players you mentioned (all of who are earning more than Scatch this year), how many scored 27 last year? How many have averaged 20 goals or more over the last three seasons? Scatch, right now, is a much more completely player than any of those guys. The only think keeping him out the top six is a lack of playmaking ability.

I'm not trying to flame you, I just think you are selling Scatch short.

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11-28-2003, 01:13 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandermaniac
i don't think grier, konowalchuk, or thornton should be compared with scatchard.

konowalchuk is 31 and even though most players this age are in their prime, it appears he is in decline. thornton is about to be 33 and, after his last season appears to be on the decline as well (although, admittedly injuries looked to be a factor here). grier, after putting the biscuit in the basket for the oilers earlier in his career seems to be declining too, despite the fact that he is only to turn 29 in january. furthermore, it is obvious that these players have maxed out in terms of production (although playing in colorado could do wonders for anyone's offensive numbers...including my own).

even though scatchard is 27 years old, i don't think he has hit the ceiling in terms of his all around game or point totals. the reason why i feel this way is that i've factored into this that he only had 6 pp points last year because he was the team's third line centre. i say if he is given second line ice time (perhaps 18-20 minutes per game instead of the 14:29 he averaged in 2002-2003), his point totals could continue to grow. let's not forget he notched 27 goals last season which, as we all know, is excellent production in today's nhl.

for these reasons, i believe scatchard's value is at an all time high right now and therefore should not be compared with the players mentioned above. now, could he land zetterberg? no. but, because he is due what is considered to be a reasonable salary, i can't see the isles moving him for second tier prospects. here, i agree with other isles fans: if scatchard is moved he would be packaged to bring back something substantial.
right on! those players are no dave scatchard. wow. horrible comparisons.

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Old
11-28-2003, 09:55 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Scatch doens't take many dumb penalties. I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion.

Of those three players you mentioned (all of who are earning more than Scatch this year), how many scored 27 last year? How many have averaged 20 goals or more over the last three seasons? Scatch, right now, is a much more completely player than any of those guys. The only think keeping him out the top six is a lack of playmaking ability.

I'm not trying to flame you, I just think you are selling Scatch short.
Number one, there is no flaming present in your reply. I hate that people are now holding back on ripping into someone because they think it may be considered flaming. But I digress. . .
Maybe I have a skewed vision as to what he has done as I only get to watch Isles games when they play Canadian enemies, but I recall a couple of bone-headed penalties that Scatchard took that lead to either game-winning or momentum changing goals. Up here in the Miss, CBC and TSN have to do.
The three players I mentioned are indeed making more than Scatchard, but really are in the realm of $100K-$200K more, so I wouldn't call Scatchard a bargain. Isn't Scatchard in the last year of his contract? I'm sure he's due for a good-sized raise that would put him above the range of these guys.
I certainly wouldn't call Scatchard the model of consistency either. Over the past five years, his goal production has been (starting with the most recent) 27, 12, 21, 12, and 13. I doubt that Scatchard will see over 15 goals this season (though his injury will have a lot to do with that) and probably won't be confused with Doug Weight as far as play-making ability goes. Putting Konowalchuk on a team comprised of normal humans, by putting Grier on a team with discernable talent past the first forward line, or by taking Thornton as he is, I think they'd have the same offensive output.
From what I understand Grier, Konowalchuk and Thornton are more respected defensively than Scatchard, although defensive play for a forward is hard enough to discern for pro scouts let alone a perturbed former Laffs fan.
Don't get me wrong, I love Scatchard's play; I just think that others can do what he does for the same price but better.

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