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This team needs to start sticking up for it's players

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Old
12-13-2006, 02:24 AM
  #26
ECL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasparaitis666 View Post
It doesnt matter, you cant expect to come through the middle with your head down and not get hit. Which is exactly what Jagr did and he got rocked.
Your posts are mind boggling.

So it's somehow okay for a goon like Hatcher to elbow our best player in the face just because he came in with his head down?

What the hell are you talking about?

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Old
12-13-2006, 02:33 AM
  #27
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No suprise Shanny stood up to him that's what Captains do

On a serious note.... yes we are weak when it comes to standing up for our players. Why was Orr in the lineup if not to provide a deterant? My only thought is that Renney didn't want to take a bad penalty at that point in the game. Which I can understand, but for the most part that game was ours from the time the puck was dropped. I understand we had to respect that team even in the state they're in based on past Ranger performances. What's going to happen come playoff time? We're going to get walked on, and risk player injury just so our enforcers don't take a bad penalty

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Old
12-13-2006, 05:53 AM
  #28
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Rangers, In Need Of An Enforcer, Still Pound Philly

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12132006...rry_brooks.htm

While being well aware of TBBB man-crush on Orr...it is becoming obvious that Colton Orr is not the answer in the protection department.

"Well, there's one thing for sure about last night's game here against the Flyers, and that is, if Colton Orr had been in the lineup then Derian Hatcher would never have dared come up with an elbow to Jaromir Jagr's head the way he did with 7:30 to play in the second period.


Wait. What's that? Oh, Orr was in the lineup. And he proved no deterrent whatsoever while providing no response whatsoever when he got onto the ice a few shifts after Jagr was felled by Hatcher. "


Last edited by oranges99: 12-13-2006 at 06:03 AM.
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Old
12-13-2006, 06:03 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by oranges99 View Post
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12132006...rry_brooks.htm

"Well, there's one thing for sure about last night's game here against the Flyers, and that is, if Colton Orr had been in the lineup then Derian Hatcher would never have dared come up with an elbow to Jaromir Jagr's head the way he did with 7:30 to play in the second period.


Wait. What's that? Oh, Orr was in the lineup. And he proved no deterrent whatsoever while providing no response whatsoever when he got onto the ice a few shifts after Jagr was felled by Hatcher. "
OK job by the Post for once, basically stating everything we've been saying "Why was Orr there if not to prevent or get revenge for the cheap shot on Jagr?"

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12-13-2006, 06:11 AM
  #30
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The annoying thing about Orr is he has amazing power when he fights, but currently its like he isnt allowed to fight and he doesnt even check people like a Neil or Jannsen so is pretty usless out there, I have been thinking for a while how Purinton a nutcase yes is so more effective in an enforcers role AND has better offensive production.

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12-13-2006, 07:23 AM
  #31
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I don't think the Rangers need and "enforcer" as much as they need a Graves type of player. Someone who can patrol the lineup because he gets a regular shift. Orr is a fine enforcer, but he's one dimensional. If the game is tight, I really don't want to see him on the ice. And I guess Renney concurs seeing as he only gave Colton a 19 second shift in the 3rd. Just my opinion, though...

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12-13-2006, 07:40 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron View Post
I don't think the Rangers need and "enforcer" as much as they need a Graves type of player. Someone who can patrol the lineup because he gets a regular shift. Orr is a fine enforcer, but he's one dimensional. If the game is tight, I really don't want to see him on the ice. And I guess Renney concurs seeing as he only gave Colton a 19 second shift in the 3rd. Just my opinion, though...
Yeah but in a 3-0 game against a Flyers team as offensively challenged as this one? Bottom line is that Renney didn't want Orr responding or he would have had him out there against Hatcher the rest of the nite.

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12-13-2006, 07:57 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasparaitis666 View Post
It doesnt matter, you cant expect to come through the middle with your head down and not get hit. Which is exactly what Jagr did and he got rocked.
We aren't saying Jagr cannot be hit, or that he didn't deserve to get hit because his head was down. The hit was cheap because it was an elbow to the jaw. You are correct in saying that you can't expect to go through the middle untouched, but can't your reasonably expect to go through the middle without an illegal and vicous blow to the head?

The fact is our captain and offensive star got hit in a cheap and potentially dangerous way. Our season hinges on Jagr. The coach not retaliating is demoralising to the team and it sends a go-message to the rest of the league. And if Shanny is the only response then we get to look forward to losing Jagr long term or Shanny to a major ever time someone crosses the line.

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Old
12-13-2006, 08:08 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by JerseyRangers View Post
Yeah but in a 3-0 game against a Flyers team as offensively challenged as this one? Bottom line is that Renney didn't want Orr responding or he would have had him out there against Hatcher the rest of the nite.
I wasn't watching a 3-0 game. I saw a team clinging to a 1 goal lead going into the 3rd. Orr isn't as adept at handling the Hatcher's of the world as the more prominent enforcers are. As I said in another post, you don't want to invoke a situation where you have Orr chasing Hatcher around all night wracking up penalties. The game wasn't a blow out. Orr wouldn't have made a single difference. What the Rangers need, IMO, is a pest or patrolman type of player.

Mind you, I'm not condoning Renney's turn the other cheek philosophy. I just don't think that Orr would have made a difference.

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12-13-2006, 08:15 AM
  #35
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A couple of thoughts. In the short term, Renney is correct in turning the cheek. In the long term, I personally would have risked the two points against the Philly Phantoms to send a message: Take liberties with my guys, I'll get you back.Either use Orr for what he is or cut him. This team has too many holes to carry Orr.

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Old
12-13-2006, 08:27 AM
  #36
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I brought this up in the GDT before the game started. I thought there might be a need for Orr in the lineup for what i called "extra protection"

- now Renney obviously believes just having a body on the bench with #28 on it is enough to ward off the opposing attempts at Jagr and complany's heads.

-But what happens when Hatcher or some other dope actually DOES drop Jagr and company like he did last night with a late elbow to the kisser? (and it was late and high, the puck was out of zone already - i dont kow what some off you were watching) How does Renney react? just the way he did. with nothing. Then why even dress Orr for the 3 minutes of ice time? Because it's the fear that he wants there, thats it.

-Renney always preaches about accountability, for HIS players... well he better start thinking about the accountability of the players wearing different colors otherwise someone important is gonna get hurt. Its jsut a matter of time. Its only December... you think in February and March when the games are even MORE important, teams are not going to try an intimidate even more??

-If you arent gonna do that consciously, at least get your money's worth with the penalties you take. instead of a hook/tap that lands you 2 minutes for grazing a players glove - Slash his arm off or throw him into the dasher, if youre going into the box you might as well take a piece of the other team with you.
Im not saying try and hurt the other team, but play tough and show the other team that retribution can occur. Seeing Chris Neil smash everything in his way the other day (with no response) in Ottawa really disturbed me, Chris Nilan wouldve pummeled him, or at least sent a message somehow.

-Thats whats lacking in the NHL right now, and on the Rangers specifically. If they are gonna allow this stuff (even Hollweg and how he runs around and smashes people) you have to let some players police the ice so the games stars dont shafted. I dont know if its Renney's patty cake way of doing things, or his abiding to the NHL standards sent down from the top as a mission statement. Whatver it is, its gonna have to change, this is NEW YORK for christssake.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 12-13-2006 at 08:41 AM.
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Old
12-13-2006, 08:40 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChief View Post
Hollweg should have been sent out there immediatley.
If you're going to dress Orr (especially in place of Prucha), that's Orrs's job, not Hollweg's.

For that matter, I would think that with Orr in the lineup, he could be the aggressor and not the responder. Of course that's all predicated on him being able to skate.

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12-13-2006, 08:54 AM
  #38
Anthony Mauro
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Chris Neil sounds awesome right about now!

The way I see it is it falls on the coach and composition of the team. First, any hockey team has the attitude their coach has. This is for any level in hockey; I've played on some crazy, high energy, hit them till they bleed type of teams and that's because our coach was effin nuts and wanted other players in the hospital. Then, I've been on kleenex soft teams, who sleptwalked through games, that focused on making plays with the puck and had no interest in hitting, all because the coach valued players skills. This is all Renney. He has no balls. Therefore, our team has no balls. Its real simple.

On the composition of the team, its hard to play with an attitude and respond to something like Hatcher did because we just do not have the guys to do it. Our first line will not step up physically. Neither will our second aside from our star, old man RW. Our third line is frighteningly soft being our checking line...let me say this, while they will not back away from confrontations(Betts/Ward/Hossa) they will not go looking for them. And that brings the Nonexistant fourth line. So you're basically running lines that even if they went back at Hatcher, they would not be too successful.

Think about it, if Hollweg goes after Gagne, do you really think this team will survive a heated matchup? If tensions arose because of each team gunning the others star, can the Rangers really roll out all four forward lines, all three D lines, and not worry about them? we are scary soft.

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Old
12-13-2006, 09:00 AM
  #39
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We should go after Tucker....he would be perfect...he has offensive skills and likes to mix it up....and would also be on the second line!!!!!

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12-13-2006, 09:04 AM
  #40
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We should go after Tucker....he would be perfect...he has offensive skills and likes to mix it up....and would also be on the second line!!!!!
Why not him AND Neil? and Morrow?!!!! Give this team a couple of sets man!!!

Isnt it crazy, I just checked Tucker's bio and stats, and the man is already 31. time flies when you're a pain in the *** like him.

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12-13-2006, 09:10 AM
  #41
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At the time, the game was close and the Rangers need the points.

Things are WAAAYYY too tight in the division right now to worry about settling the score.

I give Renney a pass on this, but next Flyer game, if the score is out of hand in any way, then I expect Hatcher to get HAMMERED one way or another.

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12-13-2006, 09:12 AM
  #42
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At the time, the game was close and the Rangers need the points.

Things are WAAAYYY too tight in the division right now to worry about settling the score.

I give Renney a pass on this, but next Flyer game, if the score is out of hand in any way, then I expect Hatcher to get HAMMERED one way or another.
Every game is close....you have to stick up for your stars...end of statement!!!!

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12-13-2006, 09:31 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by wereback View Post
Every game is close....you have to stick up for your stars...end of statement!!!!

Thanks Junior, that was cute..

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12-13-2006, 09:36 AM
  #44
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on every other team you players protecting each other especially their stars, on this team, NOPE. Anybody can take a run at Prucha or Jagr and get away with it. Anybody can charge into the crease and no body will clear him out of there. What the **** do we have Hollwegg and ORr for? Man!

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12-13-2006, 09:45 AM
  #45
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ORR throws a legit clean check and gets sent tot he box and crapped on by the board for a hr. Hatcher takes Jagrs head off and nothing is called? The problem is with the REFS. How can a ceck get called but a attempt to kill doesn't?

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12-13-2006, 10:04 AM
  #46
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Even after all this crap, we do not need an ENFORCER..In fact, by having a worhtless enforcer like Orr we are weakening our team AND physical response because it keeps his linemate Ryan Hollweg glued to the bench also..And Hollweg is the only forward that can hit on this team and might send a message....

The problem, and it's not gonna change, is the makeup of the entire team...There is no forward other then Hollweg (and SHanny) that might even think of paying somebody back...Forget about the 1st two lines..Then there's the 3rd line of Hossa-Betts-Ward....Big bodies yes and decent checkers but they rarely ever hit with a purpose or even get pissed...Same with Adam Hall...There's no reason these guys can't lay a big or dirty hit now or then..But they don't..Whether by their own volilition or by Renney's decree...

COlton Orr will provide no deterrent, no prootection, and lord knows he can't plkay hockey..But I don't think anything would change if we had Bruce McGrattan because of the rest of the team...Guys like Neil are just a dream, but the best thing this team could find is a nasty, gutsy 3rd/4th liner that won't take crap and can also play.....Not sure if they are out their, but the Rangers better look....A nasty D-man instead of Rachunek AND OZO would also help..

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12-13-2006, 10:05 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
ORR throws a legit clean check and gets sent tot he box and crapped on by the board for a hr. Hatcher takes Jagrs head off and nothing is called? The problem is with the REFS. How can a ceck get called but a attempt to kill doesn't?
Orr did follow through with both hands in the guy's face. That penalty was legit IMO.

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12-13-2006, 10:06 AM
  #48
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IMO it is unacceptable to allow that kind of hit without someone responding. Hatcher should have been dealt with on that shift or his next.

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12-13-2006, 10:25 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Even after all this crap, we do not need an ENFORCER..In fact, by having a worhtless enforcer like Orr we are weakening our team AND physical response because it keeps his linemate Ryan Hollweg glued to the bench also..And Hollweg is the only forward that can hit on this team and might send a message....

The problem, and it's not gonna change, is the makeup of the entire team...There is no forward other then Hollweg (and SHanny) that might even think of paying somebody back...Forget about the 1st two lines..Then there's the 3rd line of Hossa-Betts-Ward....Big bodies yes and decent checkers but they rarely ever hit with a purpose or even get pissed...Same with Adam Hall...There's no reason these guys can't lay a big or dirty hit now or then..But they don't..Whether by their own volilition or by Renney's decree...

COlton Orr will provide no deterrent, no prootection, and lord knows he can't plkay hockey..But I don't think anything would change if we had Bruce McGrattan because of the rest of the team...Guys like Neil are just a dream, but the best thing this team could find is a nasty, gutsy 3rd/4th liner that won't take crap and can also play.....Not sure if they are out their, but the Rangers better look....A nasty D-man instead of Rachunek AND OZO would also help..
Exactly. We need a guy who can throw down, but also takes a regular shift.

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Old
12-13-2006, 10:29 AM
  #50
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Forget Purinton.

Even Strudwick, the consumate team player, would have gone after Hatcher - even if it meant Hatcher beating his ***.

It's not necessary to even win the fight. As I've said many times it's about team building. You let them know that if they **** with one of your guys, they have to **** with all of your guys. You may beat my ***, you may beat Marty Straka's ***, but I guarantee you that when you get down to Hollweg and Orr, they're going to give you a run for your money.

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