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This team needs to start sticking up for it's players

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Old
12-13-2006, 10:39 AM
  #51
SingnBluesOnBroadway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtron View Post
Exactly. We need a guy who can throw down, but also takes a regular shift.
I'd reverse that. We need someone who is able play a regular shift but is willing to throw down.

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Old
12-13-2006, 10:50 AM
  #52
Larry Melnyk
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I'd reverse that. We need someone who is able play a regular shift but is willing to throw down.
Tomatoe/tomato, potatoe/potato, i'm obviously with you guys...And this guy doesn't even have to be a good fighter, just a player that won't think twice about settling scores and stick-up for teamates with hits or whatever it takes...In short, a skating mate for Hollweg...

And once in awhile, Renney has to play these guys on the other lines...For a coach that whines about the High hits, he's all talk and zero action...

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Old
12-13-2006, 10:59 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Tomatoe/tomato, potatoe/potato, i'm obviously with you guys...And this guy doesn't even have to be a good fighter, just a player that won't think twice about settling scores and stick-up for teamates with hits or whatever it takes...In short, a skating mate for Hollweg...

And once in awhile, Renney has to play these guys on the other lines...For a coach that whines about the High hits, he's all talk and zero action...
I'm splitting hairs, I know, but my point is the ability to take a regular shift is more important than the ability to drop the gloves.

The way the game is now, there is no role for the one-dimensional player.

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Old
12-13-2006, 11:16 AM
  #54
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IMO the league should regulate hits like that. players should be fined for hits to the head and it would stop. i dont blame renney or orr, i blame the league for allowing these hits to go unpunished

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Old
12-13-2006, 11:20 AM
  #55
Shadowtron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I'd reverse that. We need someone who is able play a regular shift but is willing to throw down.
Well, I think it's the same thing. We want the same player. If 'regular shifts' were secondary, then we might as well keep dressing Orr.

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12-13-2006, 12:20 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Davisian View Post
At the time, the game was close and the Rangers need the points.

Things are WAAAYYY too tight in the division right now to worry about settling the score.

I give Renney a pass on this, but next Flyer game, if the score is out of hand in any way, then I expect Hatcher to get HAMMERED one way or another.
The game may have been close and a retaliation may have cost us 2 points, but an injured Jagr costs us the season. If we can send a message and nip the running of our stars in the bud then it is worth the 2 points.

Right now 4 points separate about 8 teams... Do you think it is reasonable that a 10th place team would see it as opportunistic to take Jagr out and therefore eliminate us from contention? Especially at the cost of at most a 5 game suspension for a marginal player? The refs aren't going to protect us as witnessed last night. The league is soft on punishment... especially on household names and even Hatcher is included in that.

In a way, we aren't protecting Jagr, we are protecting our season.

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Old
12-13-2006, 12:30 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
The game may have been close and a retaliation may have cost us 2 points, but an injured Jagr costs us the season. If we can send a message and nip the running of our stars in the bud then it is worth the 2 points.
.

A bit of dramatics there. Say Renney does send Orr out there later in the game to fight Hatcher and "send a message". they drop 'em and one of three things happen, Orr hammers him, Hatcher hammers Orr or they wrestle to a draw.

5 minutes are up and Hatcher's on the ice when another Ranger forward (be it Jagr, Straka, Shanahan, Nylander anyone), cuts across the middle with his head down, do you really think that Hatcher doesn't blast him? Regardless of which of the 3 outcomes happened above?


I'm not suggesting the Rangers always turn the other cheek and let everyone take liberties, but unless it happens instantly, then they have to wait for the right time. And a close game with points at a premium is not the right time.

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Old
12-13-2006, 12:42 PM
  #58
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I agree though I think you have to be careful because like most things you get into a situation where it's never the right time, especially the way this team plays. Every game is close and every situation is too tight.

I think thing is not that it necessarily stops Hatcher but it does affect the team. Guys feel braver and protected, the other team doesn't ride and unchecked high, etc.

You talk to any guy on that bench and they'll tell you they want to feel safer and en enforcer does that.

Now I don't believe Orr belongs out there every game, but a night like last night is where he is needed and not using him is counter productive.

I don't fault Orr for that, that falls on Renney.

What's sad is in doing so you now have a guy like Shanahan who has to take a stand. Shanny is going to get his 3 fights a year anyway, but this year he easily could've been in 4 or 5 already. Only by some good fortune has he not been in that many, but either way that's just not right.

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Old
12-13-2006, 12:49 PM
  #59
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I think everytime Orr is on the ice we have to worry about the Rangers giving a up a goal. He doesn't skate well enough really to play in this league.

I've seen Lessard down in Hartford a couple times this season. Seems like he skates better then Orr and is a big Hitter. However he needs to learn when to tone it down... His temper flares and he takes bad penalties at times.

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12-13-2006, 12:56 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian View Post
A bit of dramatics there. Say Renney does send Orr out there later in the game to fight Hatcher and "send a message". they drop 'em and one of three things happen, Orr hammers him, Hatcher hammers Orr or they wrestle to a draw.

5 minutes are up and Hatcher's on the ice when another Ranger forward (be it Jagr, Straka, Shanahan, Nylander anyone), cuts across the middle with his head down, do you really think that Hatcher doesn't blast him? Regardless of which of the 3 outcomes happened above?


I'm not suggesting the Rangers always turn the other cheek and let everyone take liberties, but unless it happens instantly, then they have to wait for the right time. And a close game with points at a premium is not the right time.
I don't see how it's dramatics. An elbow to the jaw 3 seconds after he releases the puck is very dangerous. A concussion to Jagr can certainly derail our season.

And I'm not talking about retaliating by hitting Hatcher. I want him playing the entire game. I'm talking about eye for an eye. Run Gagne. Elbows up. He has a soft head and bad shoulders. It's cheap and its bush, but we seem to be the only team that is "above" these actions.

And I'll say it one more time, I don't have a problem with Hatcher hitting our guy when he goes through the middle with his head down. I do take issue with Hatcher landing an elbow to the jaw away from the puck.

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Old
12-13-2006, 12:58 PM
  #61
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^^

Agreed. Anyone who has played high school hockey has problem been caught with their head down and it was a clean hit.... The difference was the elbow, It was a pretty blatent cheap shot.

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Old
12-13-2006, 03:15 PM
  #62
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I think Renney would have handled things different with Orr in terms of retaliation had the Rangers stupid power play actually done something earlier in the game. Or maybe the first line. How many times did Micheletti say, "I just have a feeling this Jagr line is going to blow the game open." The game was too close for too long for Renney to take a chance and get stuck giving the Flyers a power play (as inept as the lineup was, you don't want to risk it because Gagne and Knuble are still dangerous).

But Orr is pretty useless. I've said it before, but the Rangers need to get away from this mentality of carrying players who can only do one thing--in this case fighting--and nothing else. He's just another in a long list of bad players the Rangers have stuck on the fourth line or third defense pair over the years because they think they actually serve some purpose--guys like Steve McKenna and Dale Purinton. He doesn't even fight that well. Was Colton Orr really going to pummel Hatcher? I don't think so. He can't score, he can't skate, and if he can't skate, he'll never get enough speed to really hit anyone either.

If the score wasn't so close last night, I would have sent Hollweg out to hit Gagne. At least Hollweg can pick up enough speed to really nail a player. Now, catching Gagne to actually hit him is another matter, but I like Hollweg's chances of doing something in retaliation better than Orr's. If you go after Hatcher, you're probably helping Philly more than hurting him because he's a pylon now.

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Old
12-13-2006, 03:38 PM
  #63
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Funnily enough, in Hall I thought the Rangers had a player who could skate a regular shift and throw down when needed. At least that's what Is aw in the few Preds games I watched

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Old
12-13-2006, 04:47 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davisian View Post
Thanks Junior, that was cute..
... and 100% correct. as opposed to your statement.

getting 2pts now will cost you 20pts later when the next team cheap shots Jagr and he ends up missing 10 games.

sadly, we are in FACT, the softest team in the league. I'm honestly embarrassed to watch their lack of sticking up for each other on a nightly basis. The Rangers have zero toughness in their lineup. zero.

somebody PLEASE call Tie Domi... this team is a JOKE.

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Old
12-13-2006, 05:16 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by NYR94 View Post
The game was too close for too long for Renney to take a chance and get stuck giving the Flyers a power play (as inept as the lineup was, you don't want to risk it because Gagne and Knuble are still dangerous).
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Originally Posted by Fotiu22 View Post
...
getting 2pts now will cost you 20pts later when the next team cheap shots Jagr and he ends up missing 10 games.
This is the issue. The game was close. But how many times will you turn your cheek for 2 points? Make a stand, sacrifice the 2 (maybe) and save yourself 20 some points by making a statement. "The goalie, Jagr and everyone else will not be cheap shoted."

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Old
12-13-2006, 05:25 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotiu22 View Post
... and 100% correct. as opposed to your statement.

getting 2pts now will cost you 20pts later when the next team cheap shots Jagr and he ends up missing 10 games.

sadly, we are in FACT, the softest team in the league. I'm honestly embarrassed to watch their lack of sticking up for each other on a nightly basis. The Rangers have zero toughness in their lineup. zero.

somebody PLEASE call Tie Domi... this team is a JOKE.

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Old
12-13-2006, 05:38 PM
  #67
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Did Renney Say if the score wasn't what it was last night, he would have done something?

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Old
12-13-2006, 05:58 PM
  #68
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Something along those lines. Brook's column today has the quote.

www.newyorkpost.com/sports/rangers/rangers.htm

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Old
12-13-2006, 06:09 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by oranges99 View Post
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12132006...rry_brooks.htm

While being well aware of TBBB man-crush on Orr...it is becoming obvious that Colton Orr is not the answer in the protection department.

"Well, there's one thing for sure about last night's game here against the Flyers, and that is, if Colton Orr had been in the lineup then Derian Hatcher would never have dared come up with an elbow to Jaromir Jagr's head the way he did with 7:30 to play in the second period.


Wait. What's that? Oh, Orr was in the lineup. And he proved no deterrent whatsoever while providing no response whatsoever when he got onto the ice a few shifts after Jagr was felled by Hatcher. "

No he didn't do much in his 2 minutes of ice time. Wonder what would have happened if Renney had put him out afterwards and he beat down Hatcher

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Old
12-13-2006, 06:14 PM
  #70
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Bottom line is if Orr was sent out there to retaliate he surely would have. Was he? No. Means the blame falls on Renney. Next...I'd like you all to look around the NHL...if this happened to another team...just think about how quickly and forcefully they would respond. I don't think you can name me more than 3 teams (Wings, Pens, Panthers) that wouldn't have immediately responded. Also...think about the teams that would respond without question...a number are atop the standings

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Old
12-13-2006, 06:27 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
No he didn't do much in his 2 minutes of ice time. Wonder what would have happened if Renney had put him out afterwards and he beat down Hatcher
Orr had a shift in the 3rd period, and one in the 2nd (i think) after the Hatcher hit.

He did nothing.

If Hatcher was out there or not, he could have fought someone else. But he did nothing.

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12-13-2006, 06:30 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Orr had a shift in the 3rd period, and one in the 2nd (i think) after the Hatcher hit.

He did nothing.

If Hatcher was out there or not, he could have fought someone else. But he did nothing.
19 seconds isnt enough to fight someone, you have to send him in when hatcher is on the ice. Id risk 2 points just to send a message. If I were a defensemen all i would do is check our top line, throw high hits, outside of Shanahan who would stop me?

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Old
12-13-2006, 06:33 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by HenrikO'doyle View Post
19 seconds isnt enough to fight someone, you have to send him in when hatcher is on the ice. Id risk 2 points just to send a message. If I were a defensemen all i would do is check our top line, throw high hits, outside of Shanahan who would stop me?
Having an enforcer doesn't STOP anything. It will provide reaction, sure. But it isn't going to stop anything.

Point proven last night. Jagr got hit, and if we were unlucky, he could have been hurt. Orr was in the lineup. He couldn't prevent that. He could respond to it, but it would be too late.

If some jerk wants to take a run at a player, no one is going to stop him.

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Old
12-13-2006, 06:44 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Having an enforcer doesn't STOP anything. It will provide reaction, sure. But it isn't going to stop anything.

Point proven last night. Jagr got hit, and if we were unlucky, he could have been hurt. Orr was in the lineup. He couldn't prevent that. He could respond to it, but it would be too late.

If some jerk wants to take a run at a player, no one is going to stop him.
Exactly right and to think someone like Orr scares someone into "behaving" is absurd.

If someone is going to get injured they are going to get injured whether or not Colton "I suck at everything" Orr is in the lineup or not.

It's good to stick up for your team and I don't think anyone is saying otherwise, but filling the team with Tie Domi's and players of that ilk won't stop injuries and could esentially bring the type of game we would hope Jagr, Straka, Nylander, and the other skilled players should stay away from.

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Old
12-13-2006, 07:01 PM
  #75
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The blame falls on the refs, for missing the call of Hatchers cheap elbow, Renney for not sending Orr, or someone out to retaliate, Colton Orr, for being a poor excuse for a hockey player, and doing nothing with his one limited ability(fighting) when he was on the ice, and the team in general for not sticking up for their players on a nightly basis. It dosen't just have to be Jagr who gets hit. How many nights do we see Prucha get rocked, and no one except maybe Shanny, skate over and say something to the offending player, let alone lay the guy out on the next shift. Renney has fostered finesse and a turn the other cheek mentality, but then sits Prucha to insert useless, and ill-used, Orr, and it did not stop Hatcher, Eager,Fedoruk, and others from continually hitting Rangers at will. NY needs a player that can skate/hit/fight/ and score, and Orr's not it. He also dosen't allow Renney to roll his 4 lines effectively due to his lack of the ability to skate,(something you would think a hockey player learns by the time their 10-12 years old), and that hurts the team as a whole. Get rid of Orr, get a tough guy who can skate/score, get another one who plays D well, or get hurt as a team.

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