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Hudler, Filppula and Kopecky

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Old
01-18-2007, 05:18 PM
  #101
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i'm reserving my oppinions on all of them till the playoffs..

if Hudler can repeat his GR playoff form, we'll probably win the cup..

his 5 assists in a 5/4 win in game 7 against Manitoba is the stuff legends are made of. If that was in the NHL and not the AHL he'd be a massive star now..

however i think that a line of Dats, Zetts and Hudler would be scary good....awesome skill level

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01-18-2007, 05:27 PM
  #102
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I will guarantee he won't duplicate that here. He probably won't be here for one and if he is, when the games become intense and the battles more physical I doubt he'll have much of an impact. I'm not a Hudler basher, I just think this team has too much of the same and could use a guy like him as a bargaining chip

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01-18-2007, 05:29 PM
  #103
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I will guarantee he won't duplicate that here. He probably won't be here for one and if he is, when the games become intense and the battles more physical I doubt he'll have much of an impact. I'm not a Hudler basher, I just think this team has too much of the same and could use a guy like him as a bargaining chip
in a way i do agree.

but i'll be BITTERLY dissapointed if he is traded or not resigned. i think he potential outweighs any trade value we could get for him

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01-18-2007, 05:33 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Higgy4 View Post
Honestly, I like Lang. I was just responding to HD's claim that Hudler is defensivly enept, slow and not physical. Lang is all of things as well.
I'd argue that Hudler really isn't any of those things and that it sounds like an outdated scouting report. As someone else has mentined, Hudler actually moves pretty well out there, I see him hustling in the back check and he's never been afraid to get his nose dirty. He doesn't throw himself into people but at 4'8'' and 45#, what would be the point?

I'm not advocating a great increase in ice time for Huds, but I think the real reason he doesn't get more minutes is because he's a rookie. Flip gets slightly more minutes because Flip is better defensively. No biggie and I expect both to get larger roles next season.

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01-18-2007, 05:44 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD

Hudler's problem is that his defensive effort isn't there night in and night out, he's not fast, and he's not physical. That's what keeps him off the ice. Until at least one of those things is improved to a better-than-average NHL level he's just not going to get much time in a Babcock system which stresses all three as primary factors to determine position.
You just described Robert Lang. What keeps him on the ice? Oh yeah...he is a veteran. Lang is an offensive player who is shaky defensively, is not fast and is not physical.

Just sayin...
I think he just desribed Schneider too. What's keeping him on the ice?

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01-18-2007, 05:49 PM
  #106
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I don't buy that, Lang is successful in the playoffs because of how he uses his size in the playoffs.

Yeah, but just think how much more space and opportunities Lang could create if he developed a mean streak? Just imagine him with a bit of grit mortared on to him and he could be a Power Center.

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01-18-2007, 05:56 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I don't buy that, Lang is successful in the playoffs because of how he uses his size in the playoffs.
Blah.
Boy, funny how one highlight goal and otherwise decent stats have turned Lang into a playoff stud around these parts.

The guy is a center. And when he's on the ice, the other team is more like to score than his team.

If you have any understanding of the role of a center in hockey, then you know he hardly qualifies as successful.

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01-18-2007, 06:08 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by SmartestManOnEarth View Post
Blah.
Boy, funny how one highlight goal and otherwise decent stats have turned Lang into a playoff stud around these parts.

The guy is a center. And when he's on the ice, the other team is more like to score than his team.

If you have any understanding of the role of a center in hockey, then you know he hardly qualifies as successful.
Last playoffs Lang was on the ice for

5 PP Goals For.
4 ES Goals For.
6 ES Goals Against.

Datsyuk, for a measure:

4 PP Goals For
2 ES Goals For
2 ES Goals Against.


Well... you people draw conclusions out of these numbers.

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01-18-2007, 06:31 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Higgy4 View Post
You just described Robert Lang. What keeps him on the ice? Oh yeah...he is a veteran. Lang is an offensive player who is shaky defensively, is not fast and is not physical.

Just sayin...
You're proving my point, Higgy. Babcock will play a guy like that if he demonstrates consistency and he is at least passable on defense. Rip Lang if you want, but he's not a below-average NHL defender. He's not discernably different from Datsyuk in any defensive regard. He's also a big body, and that sometimes gets understated, as does his skating.

In spite of that, Babcock's going to play Lang because he brings enough offense to the table to offset what the team gives up defensively by having him out there as opposed to a more defensive forward. As soon as Hudler gets to the point where Babcock knows what he's going to get from the kid every night and his non-shooting-the-puck play gets to an NHL average level, he's in.

Right now it's a crap shoot. Sometimes Hudler shines in 8 or 9 minutes of work. Other nights he's completely invisible. Other nights he's a detriment to the team. That kind of buckshot performance isn't going to earn him a more consistent role, nor should it.

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01-18-2007, 06:45 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by SmartestManOnEarth View Post
Blah.
Boy, funny how one highlight goal and otherwise decent stats have turned Lang into a playoff stud around these parts.

The guy is a center. And when he's on the ice, the other team is more like to score than his team.

If you have any understanding of the role of a center in hockey, then you know he hardly qualifies as successful.
i agree. lang used his body well against a defensemen for a good vocoun goal if i recall and its now leading to him just using his size better in the playoffs? that makes absolutely no sense, why would he use his size more in the playoffs rather then using a lot all the time? i guess lang just doesnt try hard enough

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01-18-2007, 06:51 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Right now it's a crap shoot. Sometimes Hudler shines in 8 or 9 minutes of work. Other nights he's completely invisible. Other nights he's a detriment to the team. That kind of buckshot performance isn't going to earn him a more consistent role, nor should it.
i disagree. Hudler at most of the time is actually trying pretty well out there along with filppula. Hudler ive watched closely along with filppula and they both work hard behind the scenes (ive been to a few games this year seeing them)... i think hudler is underrated. The kid has 7 goals or 8 goals and 1 assist, like franzen did last year almost. Performance should earn some repspect. Production wise, the kid gets the most out of what he can do with limited time against other teams ok lines. Hes not going to play every shift against another teams 4th line, but at the same time he isnt going to be playing against the other teams first line. Production from the past few games should help some what. Williams hasent done ****, franzen hasent done ****, why dont we just see this damn kid more then 8 minutes a game... its just so annoying

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01-18-2007, 06:56 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
i disagree. Hudler at most of the time is actually trying pretty well out there along with filppula. Hudler ive watched closely along with filppula and they both work hard behind the scenes (ive been to a few games this year seeing them)... i think hudler is underrated. The kid has 7 goals or 8 goals and 1 assist, like franzen did last year almost. Performance should earn some repspect. Production wise, the kid gets the most out of what he can do with limited time against other teams ok lines. Hes not going to play every shift against another teams 4th line, but at the same time he isnt going to be playing against the other teams first line. Production from the past few games should help some what. Williams hasent done ****, franzen hasent done ****, why dont we just see this damn kid more then 8 minutes a game... its just so annoying
Well Franzen is playing with Malts n Draper. I don't know how much of a weapon Hudler would be with those two.

Williams IS down to Hudler minutes, aside from the PP. If that was a one-game thing or if Babs have tired of Willy, remains to be seen.

What can you do, to boost Hudler's IT other than putting him either with Lang or Z-D?

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01-18-2007, 06:58 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartestManOnEarth View Post
Blah.
Boy, funny how one highlight goal and otherwise decent stats have turned Lang into a playoff stud around these parts.

The guy is a center. And when he's on the ice, the other team is more like to score than his team.

If you have any understanding of the role of a center in hockey, then you know he hardly qualifies as successful.
All I know is that he lead the teams forwards in points in the playoff since he got here. It hasn't gotten us any where, but that's neither here nor there.

You tell me why he's producing in the playoffs if you don't like the word successful.

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01-18-2007, 06:58 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by GuloGulo View Post
Last playoffs Lang was on the ice for

5 PP Goals For.
4 ES Goals For.
6 ES Goals Against.

Datsyuk, for a measure:

4 PP Goals For
2 ES Goals For
2 ES Goals Against.


Well... you people draw conclusions out of these numbers.
I don't think anyone is painting Lang out to be Mr. Clutch. He just seems that way because we're comparing him to Datsyuk, who has obviously proven absolutely nothing in the postseason, especially offensively with his 3 goals and 12 assists in 45 career playoff games, and no playoff goals since 2001-2. Lang, with his 7 goals and 8 assists in 18 career Detroit playoff games, has.

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01-18-2007, 07:06 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
I don't think anyone is painting Lang out to be Mr. Clutch. He just seems that way because we're comparing him to Datsyuk, who has obviously proven absolutely nothing in the postseason, especially offensively with his 3 goals and 12 assists in 45 career playoff games, and no playoff goals since 2001-2. Lang, with his 7 goals and 8 assists in 18 career Detroit playoff games, has.
If I've caught SMOE's thinking, his point is that if Lang was Datsyuk, we would score less, but also be scored UPON less - winning more games in the process.

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01-18-2007, 08:05 PM
  #116
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If I've caught SMOE's thinking, his point is that if Lang was Datsyuk, we would score less, but also be scored UPON less - winning more games in the process.
No.
I wouldn't go that far.

Look, I like Datsyuk. I'd like him to stay in Detroit if possible.

But, fact is, until he produces like a top line center in the playoffs, I don't see how Detroit can afford to keep him.

However, Datsyuk's terrible scoring slump has little to do with what I think of Lang.

I don't think Lang has been very good. I think his offense is nothing more than expected. But his defense, his skating and turnovers negate that offense.

If you get too wrapped up in stats, you say crazy, ignorant things like "Look at Cujo's goals against average against Anaheim. He was great! How can you blame him?"

It's why I think that Zetterberg, despite scoring six goals in six games, reall wasn't that impressive.

Granted, I'm glad he got those goals. If for no other reason than to get the monkey off his back.

But hockey comes down to a lot more than goals and assists.

If you've played hockey, you know that there are games when you score goals and rack up assists and played like a dog.

Then you have other games where you played fantastic, but it didn't show up on the scoreboard.

Does this excuse Datsyuk in anyway?
Hell no.

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01-18-2007, 08:07 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by GuloGulo View Post
Well Franzen is playing with Malts n Draper. I don't know how much of a weapon Hudler would be with those two.

Williams IS down to Hudler minutes, aside from the PP. If that was a one-game thing or if Babs have tired of Willy, remains to be seen.

What can you do, to boost Hudler's IT other than putting him either with Lang or Z-D?
Some powerplay time ...

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01-18-2007, 08:29 PM
  #118
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I don't buy that, Lang is successful in the playoffs because of how he uses his size in the playoffs.
Whats not to buy? Yes, he occassionally uses his size. A guy who is 6'3, 230 accidentally uses his size sometimes.

He needs to use it more. For a guy HIS size, he plays soft. Hudler is soft because he is a dwarf. Lang cant use that excuse.

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01-18-2007, 08:30 PM
  #119
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I think SMOE hit the nail on the head regarding the perception of Lang as a playoff beast on this board. Lang's play in the playoffs has been impressive because (until last season in Hank's case) Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Shanahan did nothing. So in comparison his performance was lauded as "clutch". In reality Lang has been merely decent, and defensively he's been atrocious in the second season. Lang and Williams were an abomination in their own end during the Oilers series. The thing with Lang is he'll show you a flash of size and strength maybe 3 times during an entire playoff series and we still call him a "big man" and "power presence".

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01-18-2007, 08:32 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
You're proving my point, Higgy. Babcock will play a guy like that if he demonstrates consistency and he is at least passable on defense. Rip Lang if you want, but he's not a below-average NHL defender. He's not discernably different from Datsyuk in any defensive regard. He's also a big body, and that sometimes gets understated, as does his skating.

In spite of that, Babcock's going to play Lang because he brings enough offense to the table to offset what the team gives up defensively by having him out there as opposed to a more defensive forward. As soon as Hudler gets to the point where Babcock knows what he's going to get from the kid every night and his non-shooting-the-puck play gets to an NHL average level, he's in.

Right now it's a crap shoot. Sometimes Hudler shines in 8 or 9 minutes of work. Other nights he's completely invisible. Other nights he's a detriment to the team. That kind of buckshot performance isn't going to earn him a more consistent role, nor should it.
I am not ripping Lang at all. Just drawing comparisons between the 2 players. Other than Lang being bigger and having 10 years experience, he and Hudler are strikingly similar players.

Maybe Hudler will be a late bloomer like Lang was. Langs first 4-5 years in the league were less than impressive as well.

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01-18-2007, 08:32 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by 8snake View Post
I think SMOE hit the nail on the head regarding the perception of Lang as a playoff beast on this board. Lang's play in the playoffs has been impressive because (until last season in Hank's case) Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Shanahan did nothing. So in comparison his performance was lauded as "clutch". In reality Lang has been merely decent, and defensively he's been atrocious in the second season. Lang and Williams were an abomination in their own end during the Oilers series. The thing with Lang is he'll show you a flash of size and strength maybe 3 times during an entire playoff series and we still call him a "big man" and "power presence".
And don't you think that with more goal support it would actually help Lang produce even more? I hate to be so dramatic, but he's almost doing it by himself up front.

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01-18-2007, 08:37 PM
  #122
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I think the perception of Lang being a playoff performer can somewhat be attributed to the fact that pretty much everybody else has been brutal lately.

Yes, his stats say that he has produced. But I dont recall that many times when I was in awe of his play in the last few playoff runs. He had that great individual effort against Nashville in Game 4 of the 03-04 playoffs. THAT was a fantastic play. And the fact that he played with a broken hand earned him some big time kudos.

But, like SMOE said, its not like this guy turns it up a notch in April and May. It just seems the rest of the team goes down a level or 2.

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01-18-2007, 08:37 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Higgy4 View Post
I am not ripping Lang at all. Just drawing comparisons between the 2 players. Other than Lang being bigger and having 10 years experience, he and Hudler are strikingly similar players.

Maybe Hudler will be a late bloomer like Lang was. Langs first 4-5 years in the league were less than impressive as well.

I 've always thought of Hudler as a "mini-Lang"...you certainly arent alone in that respect....

The fact HD says Lang and Datsyuk arent "discernably different" defensively is further evidence his disdain for Datsyuk continues to cloud any attempt of his to seriously discuss Datsyuk's worth.

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01-18-2007, 08:40 PM
  #124
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I think the perception of Lang being a playoff performer can somewhat be attributed to the fact that pretty much everybody else has been brutal lately.

Yes, his stats say that he has produced. But I dont recall that many times when I was in awe of his play in the last few playoff runs. He had that great individual effort against Nashville in Game 4 of the 03-04 playoffs. THAT was a fantastic play. And the fact that he played with a broken hand earned him some big time kudos.

But, like SMOE said, its not like this guy turns it up a notch in April and May. It just seems the rest of the team goes down a level or 2.
I know what you're saying, but 6 points in 6 games and 9 points in 12 games are still pretty good numbers whether or not the other guys are scoring for your 2nd line center.

I'm not trying to paint Lang as someone who is going to win the Conn Smythe if he's on the team and we win the cup, but Lang continues producing in the playoffs, that's what counts.

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01-18-2007, 08:44 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by 8snake View Post
I 've always thought of Hudler as a "mini-Lang"...you certainly arent alone in that respect....

The fact HD says Lang and Datsyuk arent "discernably different" defensively is further evidence his disdain for Datsyuk continues to cloud any attempt of his to seriously discuss Datsyuk's worth.
Hudler shows more fire and tenacity though. Might be a youth thing, might be something Lang never had (at least I've never seen it).

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