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Are we this good?

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Old
12-17-2006, 08:23 PM
  #26
Clumsyhab
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Lappy is at 1 PPG too

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Old
12-17-2006, 08:26 PM
  #27
FF de Mars
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inertiatic View Post
Um.. what does this have to do with anything?

This isnt about Quebecers wanting to play for the Habs, its whether or not THIS team, THIS season, is as good as the stats indicate.
If we have a winning team, there will ALWAYS be quebecers wanting to play for this team.

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Old
12-17-2006, 08:46 PM
  #28
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the ONLY thing i wish that NOBODY ever comes down to using is the following terms:

"This team is scary good."

ugh..

ottawa first...then buffalo...i really hate that term...

we're good.

i want to hear next:

we're the stanley cup champions.

nothing in between.

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Old
12-17-2006, 08:48 PM
  #29
Inertiatic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FF de Mars View Post
If we have a winning team, there will ALWAYS be quebecers wanting to play for this team.
Yes, but once again, how does this have ANYTHING to do with this year's team?

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Old
12-17-2006, 08:49 PM
  #30
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we are as usual a 4th to 8th place team, everything has gone according to plan this year huet has been great, some players havent been great but there are some people who have steped it up aswell, were in better shape then we were last season at this time thats for sure.

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Old
12-17-2006, 09:24 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beach Boy View Post
The chemistry is amazing..but we are one second-line center away of truly being a contender.
I agree.

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Old
12-17-2006, 09:55 PM
  #32
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by Beach Boy View Post
The chemistry is amazing..but we are one second-line center away of truly being a contender.
We are not a second line centre from becoming a contender. The defense is missing a stud defenseman. Also, we had a second line centre, and his name was Mike Ribeiro, but he didn't fit in with what Montreal was trying to build. When adding to a team with great chemistry, you have to find players that will either add, or at least not take anything away.

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Old
12-17-2006, 09:58 PM
  #33
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I think this team can play consistently better than it has.

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Old
12-17-2006, 09:59 PM
  #34
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If we are good enough to be in 4th after 30 games (and 20 without Higgins) then we are good enough to finish the season in 4th.

It's painfully obvious that this team is (at least) a step above last year's.

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Old
12-17-2006, 10:12 PM
  #35
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The Habs can finish 4th in the East, provided one or more of the following teams that are currently trailing them don't catch on fire: Ottawa, Carolina, or Pittsburgh. I don't worry about Toronto, Boston, Atlanta (if the Canes win the Southeast), Tampa Bay, New York (Rangers or Islanders), Washington, or Philadelphia. With luck (and significant injuries to the Sabres), they might even finish 1st overall.

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Old
12-18-2006, 12:05 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inertiatic View Post
First off, I love this team. I haven't been this excited about a season in Montreal in the past decade. I've been looking at some stats, and here they are:

Powerplay

1. MTL 23.1%
2. SJ 22.9%
3. ANA 22.8%

Penalty-Kill

1. EDM 90.8%
2. MTL 89.0%
3. MIN 87.8%

Short-handed Goals

1. MTL 9
2. PIT 7
3. DET 7

Conference

2nd in pts behind Buffalo

Scorers


Koivu at more than a pt- per game (14 goals!?)
Higgins at more than a pt- per game
Souray at almost a pt- per game among leaders on D

Now the question, are we this good? We've managed to have an excellent record without Ryder doing much, the entire 2nd line being invisible on most nights and our best player in Higgins out for a long time.

Looking at the stats, we allow a lot of goals in the 1st period, but in the 3rd, we leader the league in goals scored. It seems that we're in the same pattern as last year. We start off slow, and make a comeback in the 3rd. We haven't played a full game almost all year, and yet, we've found ways to win. We all know what happened last year, will history repeat itself?

According to the stats, we're in the top 6-8 teams in the league. Is this accurate of this roster?
Obviously we are that good. Otherwise we wouldn't be sitting at second place in the conference and fifth in the league. One stat you forgot to mention though: Huet has the best SV% in the league at .932.

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Old
12-18-2006, 02:00 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inertiatic View Post
Especially when you consider we allow the 2nd most shots/ game in the entire league..
Montreal stats people have been screwing up the shots against stat for years... Huet's save percentage is really good, but it's gotten an artifical boost on top from the Bell Centre statisticians.

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Old
12-18-2006, 08:42 AM
  #38
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Montreal's success can really be attributed to our 1st and 3rd lines compensating for the mediocre 2nd line which people thought would be our best.

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Old
12-18-2006, 09:28 AM
  #39
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Plekanec is sooooooooo underrated...

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Old
12-18-2006, 01:42 PM
  #40
Catch-22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inertiatic View Post
First off, I love this team. I haven't been this excited about a season in Montreal in the past decade. I've been looking at some stats, and here they are:

Powerplay

1. MTL 23.1%
2. SJ 22.9%
3. ANA 22.8%

Penalty-Kill

1. EDM 90.8%
2. MTL 89.0%
3. MIN 87.8%

Short-handed Goals

1. MTL 9
2. PIT 7
3. DET 7

Conference

2nd in pts behind Buffalo

Scorers


Koivu at more than a pt- per game (14 goals!?)
Higgins at more than a pt- per game
Souray at almost a pt- per game among leaders on D

Now the question, are we this good? We've managed to have an excellent record without Ryder doing much, the entire 2nd line being invisible on most nights and our best player in Higgins out for a long time.

Looking at the stats, we allow a lot of goals in the 1st period, but in the 3rd, we leader the league in goals scored. It seems that we're in the same pattern as last year. We start off slow, and make a comeback in the 3rd. We haven't played a full game almost all year, and yet, we've found ways to win. We all know what happened last year, will history repeat itself?

According to the stats, we're in the top 6-8 teams in the league. Is this accurate of this roster?


Statistics shmatistics! Red herrings. Those stats will not even remain close to those levels in a best of 7 game playoff series against Buffalo. And those stats don;t matter if you can't beat a well disciplined team 5 on 5. Buffalo will eat us alive in 5 games for a number of reasons. First, our second line is too inconsistent. Second, we still have too many soft, one-dimensional players who can't win battles on the boards. Third, our defense is not mobile enough to contain speedy players like Briere and Afinoghenov. Last, we still do not have an adequate or consistent breakout.

So are we this good? Only as long as the stats are averaged over opponents of various abilitites. We are number one in some statistical categories, but still some distance from a number one team.

.

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Old
12-18-2006, 02:03 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Is that the Pagé who was coaching the Nordiques in 1993 when the Habs surprised them and knocked them out?
No it isn't. The Pagé on 110% used to be part of "La soirée du Hockey" on SRC for many years. I just hate this guy. He's been around the Habs for quite some time now but yet he just seems to know nothing about hockey. He's the worst hands down.

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Old
12-18-2006, 02:10 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Second, we still have too many soft, one-dimensional players who can't win battles on the boards. Third, our defense is not mobile enough to contain speedy players like Briere and Afinoghenov. Last, we still do not have an adequate or consistent breakout.
Forwards that can win battles along the boards:
-Higgins
-Koivu
-Ryder
-Latendresse
-Perezhogin
-Bonk
-Johnson
-Begin
-Lapierre
-Murray/Downey(potentially)


In regards to mobile defencemen...our team defence has been able to handle opposing team's speed as of late. Our last 2 games against Buffalo we held them to 4 regulation time goals.

I'm not sure why you're under the impression the Habs don't have many breakouts...

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Old
12-18-2006, 02:10 PM
  #43
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Now the Habs are nor THAT good. I mean, they're ok. The special units + Huet are awesome but unless they get better at playing 5 on 5, they won't be Stanley Cup contenders. They are a hard-working team that never quits though and that's very refreshing.

Historically, the Habs always seem to be struggling during the Christmas/New Year's Holidays. They usually play a bunch of games on the road and if they can at least play .500 for the next 2-3 weeks, then they'll be in good position for the second part of the season IMO.

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Old
12-18-2006, 02:18 PM
  #44
Nobak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Statistics shmatistics! Red herrings. Those stats will not even remain close to those levels in a best of 7 game playoff series against Buffalo. And those stats don;t matter if you can't beat a well disciplined team 5 on 5. Buffalo will eat us alive in 5 games for a number of reasons. First, our second line is too inconsistent. Second, we still have too many soft, one-dimensional players who can't win battles on the boards. Third, our defense is not mobile enough to contain speedy players like Briere and Afinoghenov. Last, we still do not have an adequate or consistent breakout.
Yet in our 4 games against Buffalo, if you take away the silly welfare points and shootout, both teams are 1-1-2.

The Sabres aren't dominating the Habs. Both teams match up well and make for some awesome games.

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Old
12-18-2006, 02:33 PM
  #45
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Here are some reasons why were doing good this year, we got depth at every position excep for center. We have 7 quality defencemen. Komisarek has really been great for us and when you have a rivet as your number 4, bouillon as your number 5 and dandenault as your number 6 your in good shape because these people are veterans that now how to handle them self. They might make mistake here and there but more often than not carbo can count on them. We also have depth in the foward department. Carbo this year can rely on four lines and uses his four lines. I havent seen a hab team this good in the 3rd period for a very long time. Players are fresh in the 3rd period and this is all because carbo uses his players the right way. Take the pk as an example. Carbo well use every one, even kovy and ryder. In the past are coaches would allways rely on the same players to lead are pk.

We have a good mix of players and carbo is using them right. we have some hard hitting players, we have some players who have great offensive instinct, we have some players who can use there size to there advantage, we have players who have great shots, we have players who can grind out plays and most importantly we have a goaltender who makes the key saves to give the players a chance to use there talent.

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Old
12-18-2006, 02:46 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BladesofSteel View Post
Forwards that can win battles along the boards:
-Higgins
-Koivu
-Ryder
-Latendresse
-Perezhogin
-Bonk
-Johnson
-Begin
-Lapierre
-Murray/Downey(potentially)


In regards to mobile defencemen...our team defence has been able to handle opposing team's speed as of late. Our last 2 games against Buffalo we held them to 4 regulation time goals.

I'm not sure why you're under the impression the Habs don't have many breakouts...
Kovalev can't win a battle against the boards? He carries half of the opposing team on his back along the boards for 2 minutes before losing it.

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Old
12-18-2006, 02:58 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Statistics shmatistics! Red herrings. Those stats will not even remain close to those levels in a best of 7 game playoff series against Buffalo.
Really? Why not? Our PP, all of a sudden, will not work any longer?

Quote:
And those stats don;t matter if you can't beat a well disciplined team 5 on 5.
They can and have beaten Buffalo including an even strength goal in overtime.

Quote:
Buffalo will eat us alive in 5 games for a number of reasons. First, our second line is too inconsistent.
Kovalev steps it up in the playoffs. Our first and third lines have been more than suffiecient to compensate. There's no reason to believe the second line won't contribute in the playoffs.

Quote:
Second, we still have too many soft, one-dimensional players who can't win battles on the boards.
Like who? Begin? Bonk? Johnson? Higgins? Koivu? Kovalev? Latendresse?


Quote:
Third, our defense is not mobile enough to contain speedy players like Briere and Afinoghenov. Last, we still do not have an adequate or consistent breakout.
Wrong. The Habs handled them nicely all season long, especially in a 2-1 victory. Habs have lost two games in a shootout to Buffalo, so if you're talking about playoffs then you can throw those stats away as well. And Montreal's breakout was so poor and the defense is so immobile that Souray was the OT goal hero when he jumped in on the rush. Markov is particularly good at this.

Quote:
So are we this good? Only as long as the stats are averaged over opponents of various abilitites. We are number one in some statistical categories, but still some distance from a number one team.
Yes. They are. Their stats are calculated the same as everyone else's in the league.

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Old
12-18-2006, 03:08 PM
  #48
Catch-22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BladesofSteel View Post
Forwards that can win battles along the boards:
-Higgins
-Koivu
-Ryder
-Latendresse
-Perezhogin
-Bonk
-Johnson
-Begin
-Lapierre
-Murray/Downey(potentially)


In regards to mobile defencemen...our team defence has been able to handle opposing team's speed as of late. Our last 2 games against Buffalo we held them to 4 regulation time goals.

I'm not sure why you're under the impression the Habs don't have many breakouts...
The playoffs are different. Your opponents know they are playing between 4 and 7 games in a row against the same team, so they are better and more specifically prepared to play against you than they are for a regular season game. More concentrated preparations would allow buffalo to do several things better:


1) Knowing we are essentially a one line team, they would focus most of their defensive resources against our first line and completely shut it down 5 on 5, essentially eliminating our offensive capabilities.

2) With their speed, they would pick apart the slow Souray and Rivet in the defensive zone like a couple of Christmas turkeys.


We have 3 players in our top 6 who cannot and/or do not win battles on the boards.

Ryder
Samsonov
Kovalev

That's 2 players too many.


And I cannot remember a single period in the past 14 years when the Habs had anything resembling a successful breakout. The "smack the puck past the defensman and hope it bounces to us" strategy isn't a good bargain.


I'm a Habs fan just like you but do not believe that we are a team that can expect to compete with Buffalo in a best of 7 game series. A few wins is not going to change my opinion.
.

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Old
12-18-2006, 03:34 PM
  #49
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One more thing:

Buffalo is one of the lesser penalized teams in the league. That's not a good scenario for us because it lessens the impact of our # 1 PP. Because we would play a lot of 5 on 5 against them it obviously makes sense to look at how our teams match up even strength (5 on 5). Buffalo is the highest scoring team in the league 5 on 5. For our part, the Habs are -12 (46 GF, 58 GA), and 27th out of 30 teams in 5 on 5 scoring. That alone is enough to sink us, and then we have to consider whether our defense can handle them and whether we have enough grit and our 2nd line etc.

Sorry, I don't buy it. We have too many leaks still and our 5 on 5 play isn't good enough.

.

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Old
12-18-2006, 06:19 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
One more thing:

Buffalo is one of the lesser penalized teams in the league. That's not a good scenario for us because it lessens the impact of our # 1 PP. Because we would play a lot of 5 on 5 against them it obviously makes sense to look at how our teams match up even strength (5 on 5). Buffalo is the highest scoring team in the league 5 on 5. For our part, the Habs are -12 (46 GF, 58 GA), and 27th out of 30 teams in 5 on 5 scoring. That alone is enough to sink us, and then we have to consider whether our defense can handle them and whether we have enough grit and our 2nd line etc.

Sorry, I don't buy it. We have too many leaks still and our 5 on 5 play isn't good enough.

.
You could crunch numbers or you could watch the games. I prefer the latter. The Sabres are not eating the Canadiens alive so far, and I'll bet Montreal is one of the teams that have Buffalo most concerned. I won't deny that the opposite is also true, of course.

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