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Graduated/Failure?

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11-30-2003, 12:16 PM
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CrAzYNiNe
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Graduated/Failure?

I was looking at the Graduated players, but what struck me as odd is Ilkka Mikkola, D. Who is he? I mean I know a lot about the habs, but I don't know everything. Was he ever playing in NA? I guess he is older then 23 that is why he graduated, but wouldn't it be more like a failure?

The list is:

Graduated

Mathieu Garon, G
Ron Hainsey, D
Marcel Hossa, LW
Ilkka Mikkola, D
Michael Ryder, LW
Jason Ward, RW


So after looking at that, 5 of the 6 are playing for the Habs, or were, but aren't for some reason, but will be soon enough, but Ilkka isn't nor will he in the near future, wouldn't it better to have a list of "failures". I am not saying he isn't a good player by giving a failure title, just he failed the habs organization because he isn't playing for us. Cause graduating is an optimistic thing, and well he has done anything for us.

Your thoughts, especially Dans, cause it's his page

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11-30-2003, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
A Failure list would be a good idea actually...
Nah... the guy isn't a failure, and that would be overly harsh. He's actually playing well this season... he never panned out for the Habs, but he didn't bust like a Matt Higgins or Terry Ryan.

Maybe they should just fade away and be forgotten rather than kicking them in the arse on the way out?

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11-30-2003, 01:43 PM
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Guriken
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Originally Posted by habsfansam
Nah... the guy isn't a failure, and that would be overly harsh. He's actually playing well this season... he never panned out for the Habs, but he didn't bust like a Matt Higgins or Terry Ryan.

Maybe they should just fade away and be forgotten rather than kicking them in the arse on the way out?
We drafted him in the 7th round (217 overall) of the last draft, maybe he is 23 but it's normal to see he is not in the team right now... he went to his first Rookie camp at the beginning of the season so maybe he will have his chance next year.

We don't really need a Failure list, you can put them on notables and when their contracts end you clear them out of the list.

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11-30-2003, 01:49 PM
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montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guriken
We drafted him in the 7th round (217 overall) of the last draft, maybe he is 23 but it's normal to see he is not in the team right now... he went to his first Rookie camp at the beginning of the season so maybe he will have his chance next year.

We don't really need a Failure list, you can put them on notables and when their contracts end you clear them out of the list.


What? Mikkola was drafted in '97, 65th overall, unless you are talking about someone else.

As for the graduate section, I have no say whatsoever in HF's rules, and as a staff member, I have to follow those rules. Mikkola is in the grad section because of the amount of sm-liiga games he's played already. Is he a bust, no. Is he a bust with the Habs, so far yes, but there's talk every year of brining him over. I don't it will happen, as he is on the small side, but then again it looks like we will be thin on the blueline next year in Hamilton, if he would come over to play there.

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11-30-2003, 02:14 PM
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Guriken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal
What? Mikkola was drafted in '97, 65th overall, unless you are talking about someone else.

As for the graduate section, I have no say whatsoever in HF's rules, and as a staff member, I have to follow those rules. Mikkola is in the grad section because of the amount of sm-liiga games he's played already. Is he a bust, no. Is he a bust with the Habs, so far yes, but there's talk every year of brining him over. I don't it will happen, as he is on the small side, but then again it looks like we will be thin on the blueline next year in Hamilton, if he would come over to play there.

Ah! I misunderstood the name, I thought he was speaking about the other finnish player we drafted this year, sorry guys hehe..

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11-30-2003, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Guriken
Ah! I misunderstood the name, I thought he was speaking about the other finnish player we drafted this year, sorry guys hehe..
Korkipari

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11-30-2003, 06:15 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Komisarek
He is a failure with the habs organization though... and thats all that counts.
NO! He is not a failure... it's not the idea of making a list of guys that don't pan out that i don't like, but how can you call someone who has consistently been playing in the highest level of hockey in his country a failure. I have to agree with Montreal here, that every season we talk of bringing him over and it never happens. He didn't turn out to be the mega-offensive dman we hoped he was when we picked him, but that doesn't make him a failure by a long shot. He still has plenty of value and may develop over the next year to be a very solid dman that could be a great use to us in the future... think 4th dimensionally.

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11-30-2003, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfansam
NO! He is not a failure... it's not the idea of making a list of guys that don't pan out that i don't like, but how can you call someone who has consistently been playing in the highest level of hockey in his country a failure. I have to agree with Montreal here, that every season we talk of bringing him over and it never happens. He didn't turn out to be the mega-offensive dman we hoped he was when we picked him, but that doesn't make him a failure by a long shot. He still has plenty of value and may develop over the next year to be a very solid dman that could be a great use to us in the future... think 4th dimensionally.
No he is a failure to a certain degree. When you fail something you take it over again. As a prospect, he has failed to break into the habs organization by his 23rd birthday. If we didn't want him to come over(I have no idea, someone inlighten me) because he wasn't good enough he failed, but next year, he can still come over and then can be considered a graduate. I just think saying a guy graduated through an organization without him even coming to the continent, is just ridiculous.

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12-01-2003, 06:20 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by CrAzY_NiNe
No he is a failure to a certain degree. When you fail something you take it over again. As a prospect, he has failed to break into the habs organization by his 23rd birthday. If we didn't want him to come over(I have no idea, someone inlighten me) because he wasn't good enough he failed, but next year, he can still come over and then can be considered a graduate. I just think saying a guy graduated through an organization without him even coming to the continent, is just ridiculous.
Speaking of the ridiculous... imagine the size of that list! Depending on where you start, that includes every single guy who failed to make the habs... technically, i believe that craig conroy is a failure by that definition, is he not? Just because he suceeded elsewhere doesn't stop him being a complete failure for us... especially considering we lost the trade that sent him to St Louis.

The whole exercise seems futile... guys that were taken as longshots in the first place can't really be failures and it is unfair to them and their families to label them as such. Besides... our development program has really sucked for quite a while now and that isn't always the fault of the players.

The elder statesmen of this board keep saying that we are fans of the classiest organisation in the world, and that we (fans) should behave as such... it doesn't behoove us to label our own as failures if we want to portray that image.

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Old
12-01-2003, 08:12 AM
  #10
montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY_NiNe
I just think saying a guy graduated through an organization without him even coming to the continent, is just ridiculous.


Take it up with HF, maybe they will rethink their rules.

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