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Official Trade Proposal Thread-All proposals and speculation here please.

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Old
12-17-2006, 02:21 PM
  #26
GWF82
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Id rather have Bergeron myself. The guy knows that defense means you have to cover your OWN zone. Boyle hasnt learned that yet.

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12-17-2006, 02:35 PM
  #27
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So obviously Boyle for MAB is a rediculous proposal, but Tampa has to do something about their salary situation, and the Oilers could really use Dan.

Ideally, TB needs to get a solid NHL'er back who has an inexpensive contract, plus perhaps a prospect or a pick. How about something like Raffi Torres + Dan Syvret or a pick? That frees up a couple of mil that TB desperately needs and gives the club some grit up front along with a legit scoring threat. I know you guys want to keep your big 3, so you'll have to make some sacrifices to do that. Looks like Ranger might be the guy to fill Boyle's skates (though I haven't see TB lots, so I could be wrong)

Modify this proposal as you see fit.

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Old
12-17-2006, 02:47 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erack82 View Post
Vaclav Prospal ($1.9 million)
Matt Smaby (AHL)

for

Lasse Kukkonen ($675k)
Troy Brouwer (AHL)

OR

Vaclav Prospal ($1.9 million)
Vasily Koshechkin (yes I went there)

for

Lasse Kukkonen ($675k)
Martin St. Pierre (NHL/AHL)
Troy Brouwer (AHL)
I like either of these deals. Like 'em a lot. It makes TOO much sense. I have to admit I think Kukkonen is a HUGE diamond in the rough. I'd be willing to throw in a late-round pick as sweetener.

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Old
12-17-2006, 04:25 PM
  #29
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Smaby is NOT going anywhere, not to Tampa and he also will not be traded. His play in Springfield has not warranted a call up no matter how bad any of the Dman in Tampa have played. He is struggling some with the speed of the pro game (he's -17 in the AHL), I guarantee he won't be any better than what we have now in Tampa. No way he's called up or moved.

And why would we ruin the confidence of a perfectly good prospect??

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Old
12-17-2006, 05:03 PM
  #30
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I wish teams fans would worry more about their team and less about our CAP.

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Old
12-17-2006, 05:08 PM
  #31
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I dont like either deal, but then again, I dont want to lose Vinnie Prospal.
And, Vasily Koshechkin is a good prospect, I'd have to think awhile before deciding to deal him.

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12-17-2006, 05:09 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lander View Post
VINNY prospal ?
Vinny, as in Lecavalier. Vinnie is Prospal. Thats just the way I've always seen the names spelled.

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Old
12-17-2006, 09:20 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missK View Post
Smaby is NOT going anywhere, not to Tampa and he also will not be traded. His play in Springfield has not warranted a call up no matter how bad any of the Dman in Tampa have played. He is struggling some with the speed of the pro game (he's -17 in the AHL), I guarantee he won't be any better than what we have now in Tampa. No way he's called up or moved.

And why would we ruin the confidence of a perfectly good prospect??
You have to give to get, and I'm talking about he could step in for the Hawks, not the Lightning.

Either way, both Hawks and Lightning fans seem to sniff at the proposal which only means that it is fair.

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Old
12-17-2006, 09:22 PM
  #34
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If they trade Koshechkin, I will personally hunt them down one by one and make them apologize to me.

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Old
12-18-2006, 06:57 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWF82 View Post
Id rather have Bergeron myself. The guy knows that defense means you have to cover your OWN zone. Boyle hasnt learned that yet.
I'm with you.

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Old
12-18-2006, 09:59 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Sarich Fan View Post
I'm with you.
Rock on, that doesnt happen too often for me

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Old
12-18-2006, 10:27 AM
  #37
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WARNING: Habs fan proposal involving Richards

I'm a huge Richards fan since his time with Rimouski. IMO, he's the second best player who past by Rimouski behind Crosby.

The only think I dislike is his HUGE contract. I will still make a pitch. Considering Niinima is dump or send in the minors, what would you think of this?

To Mtl: Brad Richards and 3rd rounder

To TB: Michael Ryder, Sheldon Souray, Kyle Chipchura and conditionnal 1st rounder(if Souray doesn't resign this summer)

You could put Prospal as the center of the 2nd line and Ryder gives you a scorer who can play on the 1st or the 2nd line. I think the best asset for you in that trade is Souray since that would give you a top-pairing d-man and Boyle would have less pressure. Souray is also a great leader. Chipchura doesn't have Richards talent but he sure has the leadership. This guy is a warrior and a future captain for sure. He could have his place on the 2nd line or he would at least make an awesome third line center. IMO, he will be ready next year and you could also give him a couple of opportunities this year. You would also save about 2.5M$ in such a deal.

What do you think of this?

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Old
12-18-2006, 10:31 AM
  #38
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Done. Where do I sign.

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Old
12-18-2006, 12:45 PM
  #39
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Montreal would move Souray?

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Old
12-18-2006, 01:05 PM
  #40
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I'd do it. It'd do good for D depth and the PP. Add someone who can score, but makes much less than Richards. The first will be high, but drafting and building from the inside is so critical now with the cap.

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Old
12-18-2006, 01:06 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastoftheBrunnenG View Post
Montreal would move Souray?
If Richards is in the deal and they can find a fine replacement for Souray in another trade, I don't see why we won't do it...

Maybe I was giving too much but in fact, the only think that I was not sure is the conditionnal 1st rounder. If we could make it a conditionnal 2nd, I really don't see why the Habs would pass on this.

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Old
12-18-2006, 01:13 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastoftheBrunnenG View Post
Montreal would move Souray?
No. Well, not so long as he isn't asking to be moved, and nobody is willing to ridiculously overpay for him with a young equally-stud D in a way that somehow fits our tight payroll, anyway. Which pretty much adds up to a decisive "No".

For example, the Habs wouldn't trade Souray right now for Brad Richards. This is no knock on Richards nor does it say anything about their relative values as players, we all recognize how great Richards is, that Souray is an impending UFA, etc. But the bottom line is that we're a 19-8 team right now and Souray is filling the net, giving us one of the best PP's in the league, plus logging key icetime on one of the best PK's in the league. Plus he's a team leader. No reason to trade him. And flip side, the Richards contract isn't going to work for us, no matter how one juggles things; we're at $43M, our team has some high-priced middle-lineup players, and a stack of free agents to give raises to next year. Everybody knows all this, everybody knows Lecavalier/Richards/St.Louis are impossible acquisitions for the Habs. But of course it never stops the fantasizing. No harm in people dreaming, I guess.

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Old
12-18-2006, 01:20 PM
  #43
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As a Bolt fan I like the trade, I just don't see Montreal moving Souray as he's a huge reason their PP is #1 in the NHL. Is Montreal willing to write off this season to get Richards. I know they could get a relacement in a trade, but chemistry is so important. Probably more realistic to have Tampa keep the 3rd and Montreal keep Souray & make the 1st non-conditional.

Richards

Chipchura
Ryder
#1
Salary Filler (Niinimaa, etc...)

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Old
12-18-2006, 01:46 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
No. Well, not so long as he isn't asking to be moved, and nobody is willing to ridiculously overpay for him with a young equally-stud D in a way that somehow fits our tight payroll, anyway. Which pretty much adds up to a decisive "No".

For example, the Habs wouldn't trade Souray right now for Brad Richards. This is no knock on Richards nor does it say anything about their relative values as players, we all recognize how great Richards is, that Souray is an impending UFA, etc. But the bottom line is that we're a 19-8 team right now and Souray is filling the net, giving us one of the best PP's in the league, plus logging key icetime on one of the best PK's in the league. Plus he's a team leader. No reason to trade him. And flip side, the Richards contract isn't going to work for us, no matter how one juggles things; we're at $43M, our team has some high-priced middle-lineup players, and a stack of free agents to give raises to next year. Everybody knows all this, everybody knows Lecavalier/Richards/St.Louis are impossible acquisitions for the Habs. But of course it never stops the fantasizing. No harm in people dreaming, I guess.
That's not THAT impossible. If we waive Niinima and make the trade I've proposed, we only take about 700k. Then we may try to find a cheap option like Paul Martin for example. We would be pretty much ok for the cap.

Next year seems to be the main problem. Let's assume Aebischer, Bonk, Murray and Downey aren't back next year. We would save about 5.4M$ with that. Then we have some players to resign:

Markov: + about 3M$
Rivet: + about 500k
Higgins: + about 1.5M$
Komisarek: + about 1M$
Perezhogin: + about 500k
*Huet: - 250k

Total: + 6.2M$

Like you see, we can even keep Johnson and we take only about 800k during the summer.

Lines for next year:

Latendresse-Koivu-Kovalev
Higgins-Richards-Samsonov
Perezhogin-Plekanec-Johnson
Bégin-Lapierre-Kostsitsyn

Markov-Komisarek
???-Rivet
Bouillon-Dandenault

Huet
???

We could find the two missing pieces in our own system. If we can't, trading Sammy might be a solution to give us some cap space. Then we may try to acquire a d-man. In goal, Halak or Danis will be able to do the job.

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Old
12-18-2006, 02:31 PM
  #45
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No.

Slow start or not, you don't trade a 90 point guy who's under contract for 4 more years (or 5 - whatever) for a 2nd line winger, a dman who's fantastic but will be an expensive UFA in the summer and if he has a brain will test the market, a prospect who projects as a solid 2-way center but not a 1st line, 90 point guy, and a conditional pick.

Montreal gets the best long term player in the deal. TB rents the other top player for a few months.

If Souray were younger and under contract for a few more years, then maybe.

And moving Prospal to center is not an option. He's one step away from being a defense-only winger.

No way.

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12-18-2006, 02:38 PM
  #46
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Why don't you try watching Bergeron play before you trash Boyle's defensive efforts. He's a good player, but he's not in Boyle's category. Offensively OR defensively.

Or maybe you were watching for him in November when he was a healthy scratch.

Classic case of the grass MUST be greener on the other side.

Where do you plan on replacing Boyle's offense from? He's on pace for a career high in points (54 - had 53 last year). He's got almost as many assists so far this year for a underachieving Tampa club (17) as Bergeron projects to have for the whole year (22).

Who do you replace Boyle's 30 minutes with?

Don't say Bergeron.

If you think the offense in Tampa is bad now, go ahead and take away Boyle.

It's goofy that for all the defensive woes in TB, that you'd single out Boyle as the problem. That's actually downright laughable.


Last edited by Oceanic39*: 12-18-2006 at 02:44 PM.
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12-18-2006, 02:42 PM
  #47
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Ahem... they said number 1 defenseman. Not a guy who's spent considerable time serving popcorn in the EDM pressbox.

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12-18-2006, 02:47 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perezhogin_19 View Post
That's not THAT impossible. If we waive Niinima and make the trade I've proposed, we only take about 700k. Then we may try to find a cheap option like Paul Martin for example. We would be pretty much ok for the cap.
We would not be pretty much ok for the cap... we'd be stuck forever. Plus we'd have moved away large chunks of a (for now) winning team, important futures, and it *still* probably isn't something Feaster wants to do anyway. Like I said I (and I would be pretty confident in extrapolating "I" to include the Montreal front office) wouldn't trade Souray alone for Richards, never mind all that other stuff and all the other moves you want to make to try to optimstically squeeze under the cap.

Of course, the Bolts would have no reason whatsoever to do anything but drop their jaws in horror over any such Souray-Richards offer either, that's not really the point. It's just not a fit, not something the Habs have any reason whatsoever to contemplate. If we can't sign Souray next summer and still salivate over a center, we can always use what we budgeted to re-sign him to instead drop $6M on Gomez or some lesser amount on some lesser option. At no point will it become interesting to put together some mega-offer for Richards or Lecavalier. Even if we had any reason whatsoever to believe that the Bolts would be interested. I mean, they've got these guys locked up practically forever, right? The cap will go up ~$2M each year for the next few years, probably. Ride out whatever lumps are in store this year, and they have it made for the future with those guys as the core. They have no need to take any bargain-basement offers to dump them, we have no need to pay even a remotely fair price to get one... it all adds up again to... well, harmless fantasy.

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Old
12-18-2006, 03:04 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanic39 View Post
Why don't you try watching Bergeron play before you trash Boyle's defensive efforts. He's a good player, but he's not in Boyle's category. Offensively OR defensively.

Or maybe you were watching for him in November when he was a healthy scratch.

Classic case of the grass MUST be greener on the other side.

Where do you plan on replacing Boyle's offense from? He's on pace for a career high in points (54 - had 53 last year). He's got almost as many assists so far this year for a underachieving Tampa club (17) as Bergeron projects to have for the whole year (22).

Who do you replace Boyle's 30 minutes with?

Don't say Bergeron.

If you think the offense in Tampa is bad now, go ahead and take away Boyle.

It's goofy that for all the defensive woes in TB, that you'd single out Boyle as the problem. That's actually downright laughable.
Well normally I wouldnt reply to drivel, but I had to.

Simply put, Boyle has THE WORST +/- of the entire "defense". And yes he logs the most minutes, but is that an excuse? I'd have to say Bergeron is at least better defensively and yes, I watch the WC moreso than even the EC as I think the hockey is better. Bergeron has managed to stay on the plus side of things, plays on the PP and is doing so without a Chris Pronger on his side like he had last year. Bergeron can skate and has a decent shot from the point. Boyle is very good at making half moons in the opposite direction of the opponent's goal. Bergeron also has only played 4 less games than Boyle, its not like he's been off the ice half the season so far. He'll end up with 30-35 points on an Edmonton team in the bottom third of team scoring.

I never said "Lets do it!" myself, it was more of a joke than anything, but I still tend to forget how literal this board can be compared to others I frequent. But Boyle should be singled out, as he isnt playing solid defense and is a part of the reason the Bolts are giving up 3.2 goals a game (not the ONLY reason, but part).

Why do people try so hard to put words in each other's mouths? I know I'm guilty at times and I see it all the time as well.

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12-18-2006, 03:16 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Oceanic39 View Post
Why don't you try watching Bergeron play before you trash Boyle's defensive efforts. He's a good player, but he's not in Boyle's category. Offensively OR defensively.

Or maybe you were watching for him in November when he was a healthy scratch.

Classic case of the grass MUST be greener on the other side.

Where do you plan on replacing Boyle's offense from? He's on pace for a career high in points (54 - had 53 last year). He's got almost as many assists so far this year for a underachieving Tampa club (17) as Bergeron projects to have for the whole year (22).

Who do you replace Boyle's 30 minutes with?

Don't say Bergeron.

If you think the offense in Tampa is bad now, go ahead and take away Boyle.

It's goofy that for all the defensive woes in TB, that you'd single out Boyle as the problem. That's actually downright laughable.

I watch the Oil play every chance I get (weekends mostly, Center Ice is a wonderful thing) and I can say that I'd be comfortable trading away Boyle for Bergeron. Call me goofy or whatever you'd like but Boyle is pathetic defensively and has way too many turnovers in his own end that usually result in a scoring chance/goal for the other team. His meltdown against Carolina the other night broke a tie game (it happened right in front of me). His offensive skills would be a fair trade off for his terrible defensive zone lapses and his "puck handling skills".

And personally, I don't think Boyle is the whole problem with the defense but he is the main problem. 30 minutes a night is way too much for him and it is obvious in the third period most nights. That's when his biggest mistakes happen. Who would get the 30 minutes a night? No one. That is just too many minutes for one guy to handle, especially one as active as Boyle.

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