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Old
12-18-2006, 07:04 PM
  #1
turnbuckle*
 
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Timmbits

Finally got the chance to have a long chat with Trevor Timmins.

He told me it was a tossup between Staal and Price in 2005, but thought Price had the potential to be a franchise goalie...management told him to go with the goalie.

I asked him about Brule and Kopitar - He had concerns about Brule's size, and....believe it or not, one of the main reasons they passed over Kopitar was because they had picked a European wildcard in the first round the year before, and they were looking for some "North American content." He had seen Kopitar play quite a few times, but was concerned about picking a European in the top ten two straight seasons.

So it came down to picking the future top four defenceman or starting goalie, and management figured there was more value in the "franchise goalie".

"Look at the Conn Smythe winner" noted Timmins. "Just an example of how important a franchise goalie is."

A big, young western league goalie....like Cam Ward

Don't forget at the time of the draft the Habs had question marks in Theodore and Huet, while Halak was unproven.

Timmins said that Price was the best goalie at this year's training camp. It wasn't just his opinion

- he said a number of players told him he was the best goalie in camp. "But we just didn't have room for him. We have four pretty good ones already."

Methinks if Price comes back and is the best goalie in training camp next season he gets a very long look. What would be great about that is the Habs would then have some more tradable assets.

I told him they're soon gonna have to find a spot for Halak in the NHL; he didn't disagree.

He was surprised to see Maxwell get cut while McArdle and Gagner made the team. Not impressed with

McArdle's sense. Gagner was a surprise after being cut from the under 18 team in the summer.


Admitted that Getzlaf and Carter were the other players in the mix in 2003. He hinted that he may have erred in hindsight in not taking Getzlaf, noting that it was his first draft in charge, and may
have listened a bit too closely to his staff. From what I can gather he had Carter and Getzlaf ahead of Kosty on his own list as overall prospects, but still was intrigued by Kostitsyn's offensive upside and took the gamble.

Kostitsyn had been the best player at the under 18 that year, and Timmins still contends that he would have been a top nine pick if other teams hadn't been scared off by the revelation of epilepsy.

Timmins said he liked Andrei's character and determination when it was discovered that he had epilepsy at the combine, but he got back up on the bike and finished his test for the Habs. Figures
he lost a year of development when he decided against playing in Medicine Hat and sat on the bench for Viktor Tikhonov in Russia instead, but thinks he's ready for the NHL now.

D'Agostini - people had issues with his skating, but it's really come along. He protects the puck very well, much like Chipchura. He's like a cross between Johnson and Perezhogin. Don't forget he
only played 2 yers of junior hockey, and now he's a good player in the AHL.

Timmins is glad to see the Bulldogs doing so well. "It's great for the kids, they're learning how to win."

he didn't discount the possibility of seeing an all Belarussian in the NHL some day. Both Kostitsyns and Grabovsky are really coming along.

Chipchura - he will likely replace Bonk some day as the third line center. Will never be a big goal scorer, but has some good playmaking qualities, and is good at shielding the puck from opponents.

He's excited about Emelin - really wants to get him over next season. also quite pleased with the development of Sergei Kostitsyn.



At one point I asked him 'What are you going to do with all of the prospects?"

He chuckled and said "It's a pleasant problem to have."
Players he likes as NHLers (that I talked to him about):

Price
Halak
Danis

Fischer
Emelin
O'Byrne
Carle
Valentenko

Kostitsyn
Lapierre
Grabovsky
Chipchura
D'Agostini
White
Maxwell
Kostitsyn


Problem with that picture? Way too many future centers for one team:

Koivu
Grabovsky
Maxwell
Chipchura
Plekanec
Lapierre
White

Grabovsky and Maxwell project as top two centers, Lapierre, Chipchura, and White project as third line centers.

I'm thinking we're going to see a further migration of centers to the wing over the next couple of years.


BTW - he grew up a Hab fan.

Oh, and forgot to ask him about Milroy, and he never mentioned him. I think he's still a longshot due to concerns with his skating - that's going from recent opinions I've heard from other scouts.

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Old
12-18-2006, 07:45 PM
  #2
BLONG7
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Some very nice insight there...nice job!

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Old
12-18-2006, 07:47 PM
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Louis Houde
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Thanks for this information

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Old
12-18-2006, 07:50 PM
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Bugsy
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I've been hoping to meet the guy!

He's really good friends with a friend of mine's family. They're Leaf fans and constantly bug him about being a traitor of sorts!

Most of the questions I had for him, you just answered. I wonder:

1) Was it just Kostitsyn's skill level that impressed him so much, or was it something about Getzlaf that didn't? I heard rumblings that year that Getzlaf was developing an attitude and got stripped of his captaincy. I wonder if the incident was an isolated one as it was just a personality conflict with his coach, or was there more to it?
2) Not many teams had Carter in the top ten that year. Shows how good Timmins is if he had him ranked pretty high.
3) I heard that the player the Habs really coveted that year(2003) was Phaneuf, but he went at #9, just ahead of the Habs. Was there ever an option of trading up to get him, or were they truly content to wait for the tenth spot?
4) I heard Savard was really pushing for Kopitar, but the rest wanted a N.A. kid. Is this really one of the final "straws that broke the camel's back" and lead to Savard leaving the team?
5) I know Timmins has no involvement in player movement, but if Gainey were to move one of the Habs assets, does Timmins have a say in trying to stop the move if he feels the player is can't miss?

Those are just some questions you can hopefully answer!

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Old
12-18-2006, 07:53 PM
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Mike8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
believe it or not, one of the main reasons they passed over Kopitar was because they had picked a European wildcard in the first round the year before, and they were looking for some "North American content." He had seen Kopitar play quite a few times, but was concerned about picking a European in the top ten two straight seasons.
Unless my memory is failing me, Montreal picked Price in '05 (where Kopitar was also available), and selected Chipchura in '04, and Kostitsyn in '03. Chipchura's about as safe as they come, and is Canadian, as you know.

Anyway, minute detail, but it is a little strange if he cited this as the reason to avoid Kopitar. Chipchura is safe, afterall, so would the management avoid having two bluechip wildcards in the organization at once in general... or just if they're drafted within two years of one another?

Either way, nice work, and thanks for posting.

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12-18-2006, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Unless my memory is failing me, Montreal picked Price in '05 (where Kopitar was also available), and selected Chipchura in '04, and Kostitsyn in '03. Chipchura's about as safe as they come, and is Canadian, as you know.

Anyway, minute detail, but it is a little strange if he cited this as the reason to avoid Kopitar. Chipchura is safe, afterall, so would the management avoid having two bluechip wildcards in the organization at once in general... or just if they're drafted within two years of one another?

Either way, nice work, and thanks for posting.
Right...two out of three years with top ten picks not consecutive. Sorry Chippy.

...not wanting to go European wildcard both times...I can see the reasoning. At the end of the day he liked Staal and Price more anyway so it's moot. If he had drafted Getzlaf in 2003 he wouldn't have picked Kopitar over Price either.

He's a pretty straight forward and polite fellow; I like the guy from what I've witnessed so far. It doesn't hurt that he's living in the Valley, and married to a Braeside girl; they'll humble you in a hurry.

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12-18-2006, 08:11 PM
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Thank you for sharing that with us Turnbuckle

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Old
12-18-2006, 08:14 PM
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nice report.

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Old
12-18-2006, 08:17 PM
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Thanks for the post... much appreciated!

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Old
12-18-2006, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Unless my memory is failing me, Montreal picked Price in '05 (where Kopitar was also available), and selected Chipchura in '04, and Kostitsyn in '03. Chipchura's about as safe as they come, and is Canadian, as you know.

Anyway, minute detail, but it is a little strange if he cited this as the reason to avoid Kopitar. Chipchura is safe, afterall, so would the management avoid having two bluechip wildcards in the organization at once in general... or just if they're drafted within two years of one another?

Either way, nice work, and thanks for posting.
Timmins confirmed something I have already written in one past threads. They did not choose Kopitar because he was another European kid who might had problems adapting to the North American game and Language - like Kostitsyn. It is very possible that if they would had taken Carter or Getzlaf in 2003, they would had been more enticed to take Kopitar in 2005. Anyway... Kostitsyn will FINALLY make it in a near future and try to prove that he was a great pick for years to come.

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12-18-2006, 08:43 PM
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I opened the store about 15 minutes early to let Timmins a week or two ago. True story.

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12-18-2006, 08:47 PM
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Mike8
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Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
I opened the store about 15 minutes early to let Timmins a week or two ago. True story.
Turnbuckle's just been one-upped.

Thanks for sharing, Le Tricolore. I like this Timmins guy from everything you've written here.

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Old
12-18-2006, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post

And, Kiprusoff started a FINNISH goaltending WAVE!! Kari Lehtonen, Rask, Toinoven, Helenius, etc...(so maybe there will be a Slovenian wave one day?!?!!!).
Huet will start the France invasion


thanks TB nice report .

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Old
12-18-2006, 08:54 PM
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Anyone still fuming that the Habs picked Price instead of Brule? Look up Brule's record since the draft and breathe a sigh of relief.

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Old
12-18-2006, 09:01 PM
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Mike8
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Originally Posted by Diogenes View Post
Anyone still fuming that the Habs picked Price instead of Brule? Look up Brule's record since the draft and breathe a sigh of relief.
It's not like Price has been tearing it up.

Anyway, I would still have preferred Brule, but I was only moderately disappointed at the time. Mostly because when the words 'Western Hockey League' were spoken, I was certain it was Brule.


In retrospect, I would have preferred Marc Staal. But hindsight could prove that retrospective preference wrong too!

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12-18-2006, 09:17 PM
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It's not like Price has been tearing it up.

Anyway, I would still have preferred Brule, but I was only moderately disappointed at the time. Mostly because when the words 'Western Hockey League' were spoken, I was certain it was Brule.


In retrospect, I would have preferred Marc Staal. But hindsight could prove that retrospective preference wrong too!
Carey Price is probably the only goaltender wearing NHL regulation pads in the WHL... That says a tonne about just how serious this kid could become...

Not even to mention he was just hailed the best goaltender at the team canada WJC team... Will probably be the starter... they just want to make sure everything is kosher... At the end of the day, we did not fare too badly with the selection... esp. taking in to consideration he was the best goaltender in TC.

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Old
12-18-2006, 09:19 PM
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So, it timmins still built like a tank?

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12-18-2006, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
Finally got the chance to have a long chat with Trevor Timmins.

He told me it was a tossup between Staal and Price in 2005, but thought Price had the potential to be a franchise goalie...management told him to go with the goalie.

I asked him about Brule and Kopitar - He had concerns about Brule's size, and....believe it or not, one of the main reasons they passed over Kopitar was because they had picked a European wildcard in the first round the year before, and they were looking for some "North American content." He had seen Kopitar play quite a few times, but was concerned about picking a European in the top ten two straight seasons.

So it came down to picking the future top four defenceman or starting goalie, and management figured there was more value in the "franchise goalie".

.
I don't understand. He didn't want to pick Kopitar in 2005 because he had picked a Euro the year before? I guess you're reffering to Kostitsyn, who went in 2003. Chipchura (a WHLer) was drafted in 2004.

So we actualy went with 2 canadians back to back, both from the WHL actualy.
With the reasoning you claim we should have not picked Price.

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12-18-2006, 10:06 PM
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He really messed up the '03 draft, IMO. Urguhart over Bergeron! Did you ever ask him what happened there

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12-18-2006, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1 View Post
He really messed up the '03 draft, IMO. Urguhart over Bergeron! Did you ever ask him what happened there
There was an article in LaPresse about that. He said they had their eye on him but thought he would still be there in the third.

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12-18-2006, 11:17 PM
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great stuff turnbuckle...if you get a chance to talk to him again, I'd still love to hear a little more about upcoming draft trends (CHL vs NCAA vs USHL vs European).

Also curious to know if he would have any insight on whether the NHL GM's are going to try and do anything about being able to send kids under 20 to the AHL instead of back to their Junior teams.

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Old
12-18-2006, 11:25 PM
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I don't understand. He didn't want to pick Kopitar in 2005 because he had picked a Euro the year before? I guess you're reffering to Kostitsyn, who went in 2003. Chipchura (a WHLer) was drafted in 2004.

So we actualy went with 2 canadians back to back, both from the WHL actualy.
With the reasoning you claim we should have not picked Price.
read the whole thread

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Old
12-18-2006, 11:49 PM
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He really messed up the '03 draft, IMO. Urguhart over Bergeron! Did you ever ask him what happened there
29 other teams, as well!!
Aaaaaarrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhh!!

Boston did very well with that Bergeron pick!! They also stole Rask (for Raycroft) and Boyes (for Nolan, from T.O. to San Jose) from Toronto...

I still love the '05 Draft: Price in 1st, Latendresse in 2nd Round, and Sergei Kostitsyn...and also the '01 Draft: both Komisarek and Perezhogin in 1st Round).

It's okay!! We can't draft 'em all!! But, we've still done very well since 2001...


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 12-18-2006 at 11:55 PM.
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Old
12-19-2006, 12:16 AM
  #24
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Quote:
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So, it timmins still built like a tank?
a very short tank, yes.


also, i wanted to ask him about a couple of players, but he said he had to catch a train to ottawa at 10, and it was 9:30, so...

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Old
12-19-2006, 12:19 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
29 other teams, as well!!
Aaaaaarrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhh!!

Boston did very well with that Bergeron pick!! They also stole Rask (for Raycroft) and Boyes (for Nolan, from T.O. to San Jose) from Toronto...

I still love the '05 Draft: Price in 1st, Latendresse in 2nd Round, and Sergei Kostitsyn...and also the '01 Draft: both Komisarek and Perezhogin in 1st Round).

It's okay!! We can't draft 'em all!! But, we've still done very well since 2001...

That the point some years will be better then other you win some you lose some. That what is so fun from prospects.

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