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Old
12-19-2006, 01:27 AM
  #26
Hackett
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I sure hope we can keep this scouting staff of ours together.

I think its more vital than ever to have a large supply of prospects in your system. Because the salary cap can really force your hand.

This current staff has done a good job in not only building the farm but replenishing it as well.

In my time of watching the habs, I never remember the farm being as strong as it is right now.

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12-19-2006, 01:49 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I sure hope we can keep this scouting staff of ours together.

I think its more vital than ever to have a large supply of prospects in your system. Because the salary cap can really force your hand.

This current staff has done a good job in not only building the farm but replenishing it as well.

In my time of watching the habs, I never remember the farm being as strong as it is right now.
What is particulary impressive is that the key players are all under 24 years old or so.. This team is pretty young and its really impressive to see them such dominant.. Proof that we are drafting high quality prospects and developing them properly..

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12-19-2006, 01:54 AM
  #28
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I find a couple of his comments very strange.

Getzlaf, of course, is exactly what Gainey said we need. A big, right-handed centerman.

But you aren't supposed to draft for need, right?

I also don't like that he put a couple players ahead of Kosty like that. Even if he thought it, you aren't supposed to say that. Unless there is a big trade coming up or something..

And saying he didn't draft a guy because he's European? Come on. That's hard to believe he'd say something like that to a complete stranger.

I saw Maxwell at the rookie camp and wasn't impressed. Obviously they see something in his skillset and hope his body catches up. D'Agostino was probably the best guy on the ice that week. His skating was excellent I thought. In fact, everyone skated very well.

I also never understood the Urquhart pick. There were plenty of guys there still, why draft an oversized girl? I guess we've had so many girls on the team the last ten years that he got confused.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 12-19-2006 at 02:00 AM.
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12-19-2006, 03:57 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
I find a couple of his comments very strange.

Getzlaf, of course, is exactly what Gainey said we need. A big, right-handed centerman.

But you aren't supposed to draft for need, right?
Well at that point the Habs had Koivu and Ribeiro who were supposed to be centering the first two scoring lines for a while, so drafting a centremen was not a big necessity at that point. Plus the year before they took Higgins who was a safe pick and also drafted as a centreman.

I guess when you go into a draft with a top-10 pick you have the mindset that you might never get a pick this high again, so you make the most of it. I mean when you think of it, you get to pick one of the top 10 hockey players of the whole world born in 1985. Yes Kostitsyn was a project, but with high risk comes high reward. The kid owned the WJC (or U-18, I forget) on one of the weakest teams, so it says something. Plus they took another project in 2001 with Perezhogin, so now there is double the chance of having a good player, perhaps even two good players.

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12-19-2006, 06:24 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
I find a couple of his comments very strange.

Getzlaf, of course, is exactly what Gainey said we need. A big, right-handed centerman.

But you aren't supposed to draft for need, right?

I also don't like that he put a couple players ahead of Kosty like that. Even if he thought it, you aren't supposed to say that. Unless there is a big trade coming up or something..

And saying he didn't draft a guy because he's European? Come on. That's hard to believe he'd say something like that to a complete stranger.
.
The problem with posting stuff like this is there's always folks who go out of their way to misinterpret, and then make presumptions.

He never "said" he had Getzlaf and Carter ahead of Kostitsyn, and in hindsight he admitted that he has wondered if he shouldn't have taken them even though he's quite happy with Kostitsyn.. He didn't come out and say Kostitsyn was a huge mistake, and he's a flop; that's your job. Getzlaf has gone on to have a very successful start to his NHL career - for Timmins to turn around and say that Getzlaf was never a consideration and is a bum would look a helluva lot worse.


Read it once again - Staal and Price were the two he narrowed it down to - Kopitar was next on the list, but he ultimately made a choice between Price and Staal - the fact that Kopitar was European is irrelevant, Timmins merely added that it was one of the reasons why Kopitar wasn't drafted even though he liked him. You want to misinterpret that, fine, but don't expect everyone to agree with your resultant presumptions. Price was next on their list and that's why he was selected - no European conspiracies.

All a person should take from the conversations is that Timmins liked Carter, Getzlaf, Staal and Kopitar, but he liked someone else better at the end of the day. All it shows me is that he wasn't out in left field with his rankings.


Last edited by turnbuckle*: 12-19-2006 at 06:33 AM.
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Old
12-19-2006, 07:36 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
The problem with posting stuff like this is there's always folks who go out of their way to misinterpret, and then make presumptions.

He never "said" he had Getzlaf and Carter ahead of Kostitsyn, and in hindsight he admitted that he has wondered if he shouldn't have taken them even though he's quite happy with Kostitsyn.. He didn't come out and say Kostitsyn was a huge mistake, and he's a flop; that's your job. Getzlaf has gone on to have a very successful start to his NHL career - for Timmins to turn around and say that Getzlaf was never a consideration and is a bum would look a helluva lot worse.


Read it once again - Staal and Price were the two he narrowed it down to - Kopitar was next on the list, but he ultimately made a choice between Price and Staal - the fact that Kopitar was European is irrelevant, Timmins merely added that it was one of the reasons why Kopitar wasn't drafted even though he liked him. You want to misinterpret that, fine, but don't expect everyone to agree with your resultant presumptions. Price was next on their list and that's why he was selected - no European conspiracies.

All a person should take from the conversations is that Timmins liked Carter, Getzlaf, Staal and Kopitar, but he liked someone else better at the end of the day. All it shows me is that he wasn't out in left field with his rankings.
Reading what you say, and thanks btw, I don't get Euro from his comments but player who hasn't been tested enough against top competition. Kostitsyn had showed a lot in limited opportunity and showed enough for scouts to project. Whether or not it was a good projection can't be said with any finality yet.

Kopitar impressed everyone, but I'm sure scouts had this 'who has he played aginst' worry. So, Euro longshot was the fear as I understand it. I'm projecting meaning here to a conversation I wasn't privy too, but why let that stop me.

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12-19-2006, 08:00 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
Finally got the chance to have a long chat with Trevor Timmins.
I don't beleive a second that you met the guy and that he told you so much about the team ! Are you his brother ? His best friend ?... No way, a professional management guy would say that much to a Jo Blow ! But you have lots of imagination. Keep writing your fictions !


Last edited by montreal: 12-19-2006 at 12:12 PM. Reason: no need to quote the whole post
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Old
12-19-2006, 08:28 AM
  #33
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What I like is that one element of the team identity is speed. Kots seems to have it all. He shoots like Kovy and skates like Kovy already. I think Chip was a mistake. He may turn out to be a defensive type like a bonk but is too slow. Ive seen Maxwell a few times and he is very very gifted and if he ever develops drive we will have a good one. He plays a lil like Modano and can run a power play very much like Markov. He is very young though.

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Old
12-19-2006, 08:29 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1 View Post
He really messed up the '03 draft, IMO. Urguhart over Bergeron! Did you ever ask him what happened there
I guess Central Scouting messed up a lot too....While Urquhart, which I hated at the time I admit, was #32 amongst North Americans skaters, Lapierre was #22 and Bergeron was #29......Seabrook was #25, Carter was #27......

Urquhart was even placed before.....Corey Perry who was #35......

Bergeron was not supposed to become what he became, even the Bruins scouts admitted to that.

The choice of Urquhart though wasn't a great one but nobody could have eve predicted Bergeron's progression....

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12-19-2006, 08:32 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by habitué View Post
I don't beleive a second that you met the guy and that he told you so much about the team ! Are you his brother ? His best friend ?... No way, a professional management guy would say that much to a Jo Blow ! But you have lots of imagination. Keep writing your fictions !


I was the whole week at the development camp last summer and Timmins was besides me for a full 45 minutes answering my questions, he's the nicest guy around and totally available. And everything Turnbuckle said sounds exactly like what he had discussed with me......

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Old
12-19-2006, 08:41 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
I find a couple of his comments very strange.

Getzlaf, of course, is exactly what Gainey said we need. A big, right-handed centerman.

But you aren't supposed to draft for need, right?

I also don't like that he put a couple players ahead of Kosty like that. Even if he thought it, you aren't supposed to say that. Unless there is a big trade coming up or something..

And saying he didn't draft a guy because he's European? Come on. That's hard to believe he'd say something like that to a complete stranger.

I saw Maxwell at the rookie camp and wasn't impressed. Obviously they see something in his skillset and hope his body catches up. D'Agostino was probably the best guy on the ice that week. His skating was excellent I thought. In fact, everyone skated very well.

I also never understood the Urquhart pick. There were plenty of guys there still, why draft an oversized girl? I guess we've had so many girls on the team the last ten years that he got confused.
Timmins made the clear comment that we needed d-men in the system, reason why we got 4 last drafts. I believe Timmins does go for the BPA but he does go with needs as well, mostly in regards to d-men. He clearly said at the dev. camp that if he had the choice between a d-man and a forward of close to equal value, he would ALWAYS go with the d-man. So he use more than the BPA to validate his choice.

As far as the Kosty and Urquhart, well I can't disagree with you. Was not in favour of those two and there definately were 2 mistakes there (and it has nothing to do with Bergeron....)Timmins understood the need for d-men and went that route, well the need for big skilled centerman was there as well and didn't go for that. And Urquhart, while tall, does not fill the picture of a guy who could do well in a grittier environment...see Chouinard.....

As far as Maxwell goes, we'll see, again, right now, he seems to be the kind of guy who doesn't like the rough stuff that much but most of us think that way about Aubin, and we're seeing now that he can mix it up more than we thought. Maxwell might be able to elevate his game when needed.

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Old
12-19-2006, 08:42 AM
  #37
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Imo, questionning Turnbuckle's integrity is out of bounds here. He's shared insights before and it was clearly up to us to agree or disagree, of which I've done both, but if you're calling a guy a liar......

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Old
12-19-2006, 08:56 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
Right...two out of three years with top ten picks not consecutive. Sorry Chippy.

...not wanting to go European wildcard both times...I can see the reasoning. At the end of the day he liked Staal and Price more anyway so it's moot. If he had drafted Getzlaf in 2003 he wouldn't have picked Kopitar over Price either.

He's a pretty straight forward and polite fellow; I like the guy from what I've witnessed so far. It doesn't hurt that he's living in the Valley, and married to a Braeside girl; they'll humble you in a hurry.
By the way, Thanks a lot!

The saddest thing is that, though in hindsight it's pretty easy.....they didn't pick Kopitar, 'cause they had picked Kostitsyn before and at the time it didn't look that good so were afraid of making the same mistake. So if Getzlaf would've been our choice, good chance Kopitar might have been ours but no future goalies in our ranks as of yet (while Halak is there but really afraid about his frame....).

The thing is that he didn't want to take a chance with Kopi, but took a chance with choosing a goalie that soon, even though some reports were saying that he wasn't the best goalie available (Rask had his fans...) So I believe he took a greater risk there, but that could be the best risk ever.....we just need to wait.

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12-19-2006, 09:15 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by habitué View Post
I don't beleive a second that you met the guy and that he told you so much about the team ! Are you his brother ? His best friend ?... No way, a professional management guy would say that much to a Jo Blow ! But you have lots of imagination. Keep writing your fictions !
is this your first day on HFBoards?

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12-19-2006, 09:19 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
By the way, Thanks a lot!

The saddest thing is that, though in hindsight it's pretty easy.....they didn't pick Kopitar, 'cause they had picked Kostitsyn before and at the time it didn't look that good so were afraid of making the same mistake. So if Getzlaf would've been our choice, good chance Kopitar might have been ours but no future goalies in our ranks as of yet (while Halak is there but really afraid about his frame....).

The thing is that he didn't want to take a chance with Kopi, but took a chance with choosing a goalie that soon, even though some reports were saying that he wasn't the best goalie available (Rask had his fans...) So I believe he took a greater risk there, but that could be the best risk ever.....we just need to wait.
That was an intriguing draft year. The time leading up to the draft was when I began posting here and I remember trying to get a feel for which player fit our needs. I thought Bernier at times, then Getzlaf but in truth, I hadn't seen the guys play. Getzlaf seemed like the name for awhile, then some reports hinted at a lack of intensity, maybe he didn't step up on a consistent basis. That was the talk at the time. I remember how the board consensus seemed to shift Bernier to Getzlaf to Parise, some hoping for Phaneuf. It is interesting though, like you say, if Getzlaf had been the pick, who knows who would've been the guy last year.

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Old
12-19-2006, 09:34 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by habitué View Post
I don't beleive a second that you met the guy and that he told you so much about the team ! Are you his brother ? His best friend ?... No way, a professional management guy would say that much to a Jo Blow ! But you have lots of imagination. Keep writing your fictions !
You're not very intelligent. Turnbuckle's a journalist. This has been demonstrated/proven in the past.

You're free to apologize now.

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Old
12-19-2006, 09:37 AM
  #42
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So if Getzlaf would've been our choice, good chance Kopitar might have been ours
Actually, turnbuckle basically said that wasn't the case a few posts after the start of the thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post

...not wanting to go European wildcard both times...I can see the reasoning. At the end of the day he liked Staal and Price more anyway so it's moot. If he had drafted Getzlaf in 2003 he wouldn't have picked Kopitar over Price either.

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Old
12-19-2006, 09:50 AM
  #43
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Actually, turnbuckle basically said that wasn't the case a few posts after the start of the thread:
Thought it was more Turnbuckle's impression than what Timmins actually told him. Just believe that without the Kostitsyn's experience, he would have been more enclined to take that european risk. But it's also possible that if there was one risk he was more willing to take, was the goalie risk.....

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12-19-2006, 10:18 AM
  #44
Tatay Farlo
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Nice insight...thank you.

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12-19-2006, 11:20 AM
  #45
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That was a great way to waste 15 min of work, Thanks a lot.

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Old
12-19-2006, 11:37 AM
  #46
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Turnbuckle is a credible boarder, Habitué. Either you took too many coffees or you in dire need of a fix, because it's not in your style to bash a regular and credible poster like you did.

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Old
12-19-2006, 11:51 AM
  #47
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is this your first day on HFBoards?
Nah, he's the guy that was always bashing our Habs last year.

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Old
12-19-2006, 12:11 PM
  #48
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Get back on topic, talk about the posts not the posters.

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Old
12-19-2006, 12:22 PM
  #49
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Ok, this is my fault. Let's get back on topic. I misread Turnbuckle's post. Obviously Timmons wouldn't put down his own player.

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Old
12-19-2006, 12:37 PM
  #50
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Sounds like a great guy. I'm really happy to see him at the helm. Thanks for sharing the info with us!

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