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Red Line Report on USA Today

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Old
12-01-2003, 12:07 AM
  #1
misterjaggers
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Red Line Report on USA Today

The latest Kyle Woodlief column is out. Here's the link:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...woodlief_x.htm

And his top ten:
1. Alexandre Ovechkin LW 6-1/195 R 9-17-85 Dynamo Moscow
2. Evgeni Malkin C 6-2/176 L 7-31-86 Magnitogorsk
3. Rostislav Olesz C 6-2/191 L 10-10-85 Vitkovice
4. Cam Barker D 6-3/206 L 4-4-86 Medicine Hat
5. Marek Schwarz G 5-9/165 R 4-1-86 Sparta Praha
6. Wojtek Wolski LW 6-2/188 L 2-24-86 Brampton
7. Jakub Sindel RW 5-11/163 R 1-24-86 Slavia Praha
8. Wes O'Neill D 6-3/192 L 3-3-86 Univ. of Notre Dame
9. Enver Lisin RW 6-1/189 L 4-22-86 Dynamo Moscow
10. Lauri Tukonen C 6-3/193 R 9-1-86 Espoo

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Old
12-01-2003, 12:22 AM
  #2
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Looks like this year's Eric Staal goes by the name of Robbie Shremp...

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12-01-2003, 06:44 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchLeafsfan
Looks like this year's Eric Staal goes by the name of Robbie Shremp...
These two have nothing in common. Schremp isn't half the player Staal is.

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12-01-2003, 07:02 AM
  #4
Douggy
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I dunno what these guys are thinking. Barring a major injury, Schremp WILL go in the top ten.

When the CSB does its fitness testing for the top prospects, I wouldn't be surprised to see Schremp near the top of the heap, due to the fitness standards the Knights are holding their players to.

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Old
12-01-2003, 07:17 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NV
These two have nothing in common. Schremp isn't half the player Staal is.


Using what criteria? You can't possibly be speaking from a skill perspective can you?

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Old
12-01-2003, 07:18 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douggy
I dunno what these guys are thinking. Barring a major injury, Schremp WILL go in the top ten.

When the CSB does its fitness testing for the top prospects, I wouldn't be surprised to see Schremp near the top of the heap, due to the fitness standards the Knights are holding their players to.

Woodlief has a vendetta against Schremp. He acknowledges his skill-set, but can't let the off ice issues go. That's why he's not in the top ten, when we all know at the draft he'll probably be a top 5 selection.

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12-01-2003, 07:18 AM
  #7
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Just like some teams do, RLR has basically taken a player "off their board" because they did something they didn't like.

Schremp will likely be a top 10 pick. Heck, I wouldn't be shocked if he went top 5.

But I also wouldn't be shocked if Schremp was seriously downgraded by a team or two heading into the draft because of his forcing his way off the IceDogs.

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Old
12-01-2003, 08:55 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
Using what criteria? You can't possibly be speaking from a skill perspective can you?
Not from a skill, but from a total player perspective including work-ethic and respect, Staal is much more desirable. This is not to say that its impossible for Schremp to turn into a better NHLer than Staal. From what i've read, Schremp is quite skilled.

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12-01-2003, 09:52 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
Not from a skill, but from a total player perspective including work-ethic and respect, Staal is much more desirable. This is not to say that its impossible for Schremp to turn into a better NHLer than Staal. From what i've read, Schremp is quite skilled.


Looks like another person has fell victim to the party line. Schremp works as hard at his craft as anyone, and by all accounts is a mature individual off the ice. His decision to leave Mississauga for London was career oriented, and he remains on good terms with his former team mates, while fitting in well with the Knights.

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12-01-2003, 12:40 PM
  #10
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NV
These two have nothing in common.
Yes they have. They both were rated fairly low by RedLine.

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Old
12-01-2003, 12:43 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
His decision to leave Mississauga for London was career oriented
Hard to see how leaving your OHL team and demanding a trade in your draft year is a good decision for your career. . .

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Old
12-01-2003, 12:59 PM
  #12
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In the last issue I read Redline fully acknowledges that Shremp will go top 10. All they are saying is that if they were picking in the top 10, they wouldn't take him. Redline is not trying to predict the draft.

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12-01-2003, 01:03 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
In the last issue I read Redline fully acknowledges that Shremp will go top 10. All they are saying is that if they were picking in the top 10, they wouldn't take him. Redline is not trying to predict the draft.
I think that most people don't remember, and I think that Redline states it regularly. They don't try to predict the draft. The rank players based on who they would pick with the selection.

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12-01-2003, 01:23 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
In the last issue I read Redline fully acknowledges that Shremp will go top 10. All they are saying is that if they were picking in the top 10, they wouldn't take him. Redline is not trying to predict the draft.
And I think thats the thing we have to work on remembering. These Independent Scouting services like CSB or Redline or the new ISS. They aren't mock drafts. They are rankings done by the scouts they send out to check out the action.

Now we can disagree with Redline because We (and I) believe that Schremp is a worthy selection in the top 10, but we can't rag on them for improperly predicting the draft simply because that's not really what they are about. Like you said, it's about them saying whom they would choose if they were picking in the draft and not NHL teams, and if they were picking, Schremp's attitude would hold them back from selecting him with a top 10 selection.

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12-01-2003, 01:41 PM
  #15
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Low on news, high on self-congratulation. Nothing new to see here, folks.

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12-01-2003, 01:52 PM
  #16
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"High on self-congratulation"

You lost me there Dole.

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12-01-2003, 02:11 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Chimera
Low on news, high on self-congratulation. Nothing new to see here, folks.
Premature at that. Just because a goalie succeeds in college, doesn't mean he'll be a solid pro.

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Old
12-01-2003, 02:38 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
"High on self-congratulation"

You lost me there Dole.

Woodlief almost out his hand through his back giving himself props on identifying Dave Brown (goaltender at Notre Dame U) as a player to watch.

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Old
12-01-2003, 02:40 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aki
Hard to see how leaving your OHL team and demanding a trade in your draft year is a good decision for your career. . .

One question:


Is London a better hockey program than Mississauga? IMO across the board it is, and is a better fit for a player with NHL aspirations. The Hunters, at least IMO do a great job taking those needs into consideration and molding their guys.

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Old
12-01-2003, 03:27 PM
  #20
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Question

Can something give a scouting report on Enver Lisin???

Thanks in advance

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Old
12-01-2003, 03:35 PM
  #21
Douggy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aki
Hard to see how leaving your OHL team and demanding a trade in your draft year is a good decision for your career. . .
Schremp decided to leave because Mississauga because they were forcing him to finish high school, and he wanted to dedicate more time to hockey.

If he were likely going in the 5th round this would be a bad decision, but he's going to go in the first round.

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Old
12-01-2003, 03:40 PM
  #22
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I've been reading Woodlief's free USA Today columns for a couple of years now, and, IMO, they are turning both a bit self-congratulatory and kinda bitter. The Glazchev and Schremp rips, the most recent "Don't sprain your elbow patting yourself on the back" column...

I respect his opinion, and enjoy that he sticks himself out there, but the tone has turned much more vicious recently, which I don't think is particularly a good thing.

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Old
12-01-2003, 05:57 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
I think that most people don't remember, and I think that Redline states it regularly. They don't try to predict the draft. The rank players based on who they would pick with the selection.
They are a scouting service along with CSB (a respected service at that), what they scout and put down has an affect on how people think towards talent. Their job is to put the most skilled guys in an order so people can have rankings, thats what they sell is their scouting ability. When they have a top 10 it is who they think are the top 10 talents in the draft, in which would include Robbie Schremp IMO, I find Redline made too much out of this incident and has to put it behind them. Fact is people buy his service and go to it to see who the top talents for the draft are and by leaving Robbie Schremp off I think is just making them look bad anyway, because there is no way Schremp falls out of top ten.

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12-01-2003, 06:50 PM
  #24
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Self-congratulatory? Sure.

But when you get chided for ranking a player like Dave Brown where they did and then he turns out to be the hottest new face in the NCAA, I personally don't see a big problem with bringing that out. There were a lot of scouts who were so sure that Woodlief was off his rocker for having Brown where he did...those same individuals are now eating crow. How does a guy like Brown NOT even get drafted? Criticize Red Line if that's your fancy, but before you do- answer that question. Almost 300 picks, and nary a team chose him, whereas Red Line had him solidly inside their top-50.

Say what you want- but no other publication even gave Dave Brown a sniff in their draft reports last year. I think it is pretty bush league to now be taking shots at Red Line because you don't happen to like their chief scout's style. Right is right. And no amount of spin aimed at Kyle Woodlief's manner of expressing that changes the fact that he made a gutsy call and has been proven right based on Brown's early stellar play. 30 NHL teams passed him over last June...it won't happen again.

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Old
12-01-2003, 07:10 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moosefan
They are a scouting service along with CSB (a respected service at that), what they scout and put down has an affect on how people think towards talent. Their job is to put the most skilled guys in an order so people can have rankings, thats what they sell is their scouting ability. When they have a top 10 it is who they think are the top 10 talents in the draft, in which would include Robbie Schremp IMO, I find Redline made too much out of this incident and has to put it behind them. Fact is people buy his service and go to it to see who the top talents for the draft are and by leaving Robbie Schremp off I think is just making them look bad anyway, because there is no way Schremp falls out of top ten.
It isn't always about the talent, though. The road to prospect hell is paved with a lot of talented players who lacked the character, maturity and desire to play at the highest level. Like it or not, Schremp's attitude and questionable character have sent up a red flag, and you are being a little naive if you think that Red Line are the only ones who have picked up on this. Believe me, NHL scouts are talking- and based on what I've heard, Mr. Schremp hasn't exactly been an overwhelming success.

It is not beyond the realm of possibility to suppose that teams might be turned off by the way Schremp conducts himself. As someone mentioned earlier- Red Line isn't predicting a draft order...they are providing a list of players ranked in order of who they would pick if they were an NHL team. Who cares if they don't have Schremp rated in the top-10, anyway? They've acknowledged that he has the talent, but that they just don't like him if they are picking there. Their willingness to go against conventional thought and the over-hyped internet darlings and CSS aces is what makes them different. I say more power to 'em.

I've talked extensively with several NHL amateur scouting directors who have ALL said that character and attitude is an ever-increasing factor on where a team ranks a player. In Schremp's case, it may not stop a team picking seventh or eighth from rolling the dice on him, but a team inside the top-five will have to think very long and hard about investing a pick of that magnitude on a player with his reputation. It is not a stretch to say that Schremp will fall further than his talent would dictate he goes, and if you don't believe that, then go ask Patrick O'Sullivan about his draft experience.

Schremp will go high. Red Line doesn't debate that. But, what they are saying is if they were the NHL's 31st team, they wouldn't invest a top-10 pick on him. There is likely a team out there who *will* roll the dice, but harping on the fact that they aren't is getting old. Disagree all you want, but it shows integrity for one to stand by their beliefs, rather than cave to popular opinion.

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