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Old
12-01-2003, 07:50 PM
  #26
Mike Remmerde
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Originally Posted by moosefan
They are a scouting service along with CSB (a respected service at that), what they scout and put down has an affect on how people think towards talent. Their job is to put the most skilled guys in an order so people can have rankings, thats what they sell is their scouting ability.

Let Red Line Report speak for itself (re: what our job is). You're engaging in wild speculation here.

We do not rank purely on skill. Nor do NHL scouting staffs. That is not a recipe for successful drafts. I wonít go into what I consider obvious detail about other factors, but subscribers have read our detailed opinions about Schremp in our monthly issues (not the USA Today excepts).

We are not in the prediction business (with respect to slotting players correctly in our rankings vs. actual draft position). We clearly state this every June in our Draft Guide. Likewise, no two NHL teams will have even moderately similar draft lists from top to bottom.

Trying to play Draft Day Fortune Teller might be an interesting academic exercise, but our customers (particularly NHL teams) place more value in our staff offering independent, unreserved opinions (based on our staff's viewings) of players.

We know Schremp will likely go higher than we have him. Some team will overlook his faults. We're just of the opinion that the character of players is a key ingredient for building contending team through the draft. If you disregard character at the draft table, you might have a roster full of Alexei Yashins, but you probably arenít going to have any Stanley Cup rings.

[It's also important to point out that Schremp is #13 on our list, not 30, or 300, as some people have speculated.]

Mike Remmerde
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Old
12-01-2003, 08:15 PM
  #27
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But when you get chided for ranking a player like Dave Brown where they did and then he turns out to be the hottest new face in the NCAA, I personally don't see a big problem with bringing that out.
I agree. Redline got flambeed for that and it turns out there ranking was pretty meritorious. "It ain't bragging if you do it and you back it up..."

I'll also point out Glazachev fell out of the 1st round last year to boot. Now, granted, the way Woodlief dressed down the young man was pretty tactless and over the top, but they were right with regard to how a lot of the scouts were down on him for what they were seeing.

They're not always right, certainly, but they deserve their plaudits when they are.

-Pete Choquette

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12-02-2003, 08:56 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Kirk- NEHJ
Self-congratulatory? Sure.

But when you get chided for ranking a player like Dave Brown where they did and then he turns out to be the hottest new face in the NCAA, I personally don't see a big problem with bringing that out. There were a lot of scouts who were so sure that Woodlief was off his rocker for having Brown where he did...those same individuals are now eating crow. How does a guy like Brown NOT even get drafted? Criticize Red Line if that's your fancy, but before you do- answer that question. Almost 300 picks, and nary a team chose him, whereas Red Line had him solidly inside their top-50.

Say what you want- but no other publication even gave Dave Brown a sniff in their draft reports last year. I think it is pretty bush league to now be taking shots at Red Line because you don't happen to like their chief scout's style. Right is right. And no amount of spin aimed at Kyle Woodlief's manner of expressing that changes the fact that he made a gutsy call and has been proven right based on Brown's early stellar play. 30 NHL teams passed him over last June...it won't happen again.
Trusty sidekick to the rescue.

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12-02-2003, 09:36 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Remmerde
Let Red Line Report speak for itself (re: what our job is). You're engaging in wild speculation here.

We do not rank purely on skill. Nor do NHL scouting staffs. That is not a recipe for successful drafts. I wonít go into what I consider obvious detail about other factors, but subscribers have read our detailed opinions about Schremp in our monthly issues (not the USA Today excepts).

We are not in the prediction business (with respect to slotting players correctly in our rankings vs. actual draft position). We clearly state this every June in our Draft Guide. Likewise, no two NHL teams will have even moderately similar draft lists from top to bottom.

Trying to play Draft Day Fortune Teller might be an interesting academic exercise, but our customers (particularly NHL teams) place more value in our staff offering independent, unreserved opinions (based on our staff's viewings) of players.

We know Schremp will likely go higher than we have him. Some team will overlook his faults. We're just of the opinion that the character of players is a key ingredient for building contending team through the draft. If you disregard character at the draft table, you might have a roster full of Alexei Yashins, but you probably arenít going to have any Stanley Cup rings.

[It's also important to point out that Schremp is #13 on our list, not 30, or 300, as some people have speculated.]

Mike Remmerde
Red Line Report
I am just giving my two cents and the issue, you pass up players like Schremp and take other players because they have better character. So what Schremp asked for a trade, Spezza did it, Patrick Jarrett did it all from Mississauga, you have to look at the situation as well rather than what the player asked for. In 98 Malhotra went before Tanguay, Gagne, SKoula, Gomez, and many othe skilled players because of his leadership ability. Thing is good to have but he can't keep a job anywhere it seems like, and teams like Colorado are benifiting from Tanguay more so than if they picked Malhotra. That is just one example of skipping talent for character. Though I would love a player to have both sometimes skill speaks volume IMO.

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12-02-2003, 11:20 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Dr_Chimera
Trusty sidekick to the rescue.
Do you really have to troll every single Redline thread that gets started? Makes you look like an ass IMO. What is your agenda? Seems like you are out to discredit these guys and then post derisive comments towards anybody who doesn't follow suit.

Grow up.

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12-02-2003, 11:46 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Do you really have to troll every single Redline thread that gets started? Makes you look like an ass IMO. What is your agenda? Seems like you are out to discredit these guys and then post derisive comments towards anybody who doesn't follow suit.

Grow up.
Well, there is a fine line between "troll" and "fanboy".

If I am am indeed a troll, should I then call you a fanboy? Because I see you on every redline thread oo-ing and awww-ing over their product? Could it be because you're a subscriber and am I simply upsetting you because I am not applauding a product you pay so much money for?

I opt for column B, here. You're no crusader for objectivity here, Mr. FDW.


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12-02-2003, 12:38 PM
  #32
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If Schremp had demanded a trade out of Ottawa, I could see eyebrows raised about it but let's face it Schremp was hardly alone in wanting out of Mississauga. If it were an isolated incident, maybe you start to wonder. But after Spezza, Jarrett et al...where's the problem, Schremp or the IceDogs program? If Red Line readily admits that Schremp is a top-10 talent then he should appear on their list...unless they can somehow prove that the other 10 players are all Gandhi-like in terms of character.

The problem with the recent RLR report is that it would be more credible if they admitted their own mistakes from time to time, as well as their supposed great calls. By mistakes, I specifically think of Pierre-Marc Bouchard, who was his draft year's Schremp of sorts and yet appears to be a very worthy No. 8 overall selection.

I don't mind patting yourself on the back, just call a spade a spade.

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Old
12-02-2003, 12:42 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Dr_Chimera
Well, there is a fine line between "troll" and "fanboy".

If I am am indeed a troll, should I then call you a fanboy? Because I see you on every redline thread oo-ing and awww-ing over their product? Could it be because you're a subscriber and am I simply upsetting you because I am not applauding a product you pay so much money for?

I opt for column B, here. You're no crusader for objectivity here, Mr. FDW.
So should Redline have a dedicated troll to bash McKeen's whenever their name comes up?

Seems like turnabout should be fair game should it not?

I dunno it just seems bush league for writers of one scouting service (namely you and Moosefan) to be constantly bashing another scouting service in a public forum when I haven't seen Redline employees exhibiting the same behaviour. Trying to discredit a competitor when it might not be apparent to all that you are a competitor is VERY shady IMO. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.


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Old
12-02-2003, 01:16 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
So should Redline have a dedicated troll to bash McKeen's whenever their name comes up?

Seems like turnabout should be fair game should it not?

I dunno it just seems bush league for writers of one scouting service (namely you and Moosefan) to be constantly bashing another scouting service in a public forum when I haven't seen Redline employees exhibiting the same behaviour. Trying to discredit a competitor when it might not be apparent to all that you are a competitor is VERY shady IMO. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.
La-la land. 'tis a nice place I hear.

Quote:
Trying to discredit a competitor when it might not be apparent to all that you are a competitor is VERY shady IMO. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels that way.
Are you saying that I spread merciless, purposefully-targeted propaganda pointed specifically at Redline with solely a selfish purpose at discrediting them by all means possible?
I am shamed and appalled. I am offended and this is utter falsehood.
In fact, what I do is I spread hidden subliminal embedded messages in all of my posts - cleverly disguised for the purpose of instilling belittling anti-Redline thoughts in the collective minds of the readers.

But, aside from that, I feel that Redline releases a solid product that is affordable at Bourgeoisie-level prices.

P.S. I pity the fools who misinterpret my sinister intentions.

Speaking of carefully-worded messages, here's one for Redline - Sue-Sue-Susudio - the song that keeps on playing.

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Old
12-02-2003, 01:36 PM
  #35
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The more I read Red Line, the more I think they are out to lunch.

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Old
12-02-2003, 01:52 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Do you really have to troll every single Redline thread that gets started? Makes you look like an ass IMO. What is your agenda? Seems like you are out to discredit these guys and then post derisive comments towards anybody who doesn't follow suit.

Grow up.
I think Doc is just upset cause the RedLine man made an implicit criticism of his man Cashin, who the Doc is the head fanboy for.

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12-02-2003, 01:59 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Dr_Chimera
La-la land. 'tis a nice place I hear.
Huh? Sounds like more derisive comments. Not sure why I'm a target though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Chimera
But, aside from that, I feel that Redline releases a solid product that is affordable at Bourgeoisie-level prices.
Seems to be the opposite of the opinion you state in every Redline thread I've read. You take every and any opportunity to insult them from the threads I've read.

I'm just calling it as I see it. Writers from one scouting service bashing another (that I do indeed subscribe to) while hiding behind aliases. I think it's unprofessional. I think it's low-brow. Obviously you think it's fair game.

For the record I don't subscribe to McKeen's. They may have a solid product or one that is better than Redline's, I wouldn't know. Based on the free content I read, I decided to stick with Redline.

Not sure how that makes me a "fanboy" but thanks for the lack of respect. Not that I have much respect for someone who attacks their competitors on a public forum behind an alias. I have supported Redline in the past when I have thought the criticism was unwarranted or because of a misunderstanding and that has in turn made me a target for you to mock. That made this more personal.

I wouldn't think it would be that hard to show a little more respect to your competitors and I certainly think you can show a lot more respect to those who subscribe to their product who you insult and mock when they don't agree with your anti-Redline stance. Seriously Jake, is that too much to ask? And don't bother with some clever sounding reply, I could care less, I'm interested in seeing you act like less a dick about the whole thing.


Last edited by Flames Draft Watcher: 12-02-2003 at 02:09 PM.
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Old
12-02-2003, 02:00 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy
I think Doc is just upset cause the RedLine man made an implicit criticism of his man Cashin, who the Doc is the head fanboy for.
They have?

Well, that changes everything. I slap them with my leather glove.

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12-02-2003, 02:08 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Seems to be the opposite of the opinion you state in every Redline thread I've read. You take every and any opportunity to insult them from the threads I've read.

I'm just calling it as I see it. Writers from one scouting service bashing another (that I do indeed subscribe to) while hiding behind aliases. I think it's unprofessional. I think it's low-brow. Obviously you think it's fair game.
Is it really different?

And, for the record, I don't hide behind aliases - people know who I am - including yourself. If they bring back sigs, I'd be happy to sign my name.
I can't say the same for the redline folks - they hang around here and on the McKeen's boards under distinct names. But as a former admin I know who they are.

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12-02-2003, 02:10 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Dr_Chimera
Is it really different?
I don't follow you Doc, is what different?

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Old
12-02-2003, 02:18 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Not sure how that makes me a "fanboy" but thanks for the lack of respect.
I didn't call you a fanboy. But that's ok - you're not the first to be confused by what I say.
I'll tell you what - don't worry about it.

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Old
12-03-2003, 02:34 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
If Schremp had demanded a trade out of Ottawa, I could see eyebrows raised about it but let's face it Schremp was hardly alone in wanting out of Mississauga. If it were an isolated incident, maybe you start to wonder. But after Spezza, Jarrett et al...where's the problem, Schremp or the IceDogs program? If Red Line readily admits that Schremp is a top-10 talent then he should appear on their list...unless they can somehow prove that the other 10 players are all Gandhi-like in terms of character.

The problem with the recent RLR report is that it would be more credible if they admitted their own mistakes from time to time, as well as their supposed great calls. By mistakes, I specifically think of Pierre-Marc Bouchard, who was his draft year's Schremp of sorts and yet appears to be a very worthy No. 8 overall selection.

I don't mind patting yourself on the back, just call a spade a spade.
The Ice Dogs are in much better shape now, than they were when Spezza and Jarrett forced their way out of town.

They have actually hired solid coaches the last two times out and they have actually started importing players <gasp>.

Personally, I don't pretend to know exactly why RLR has downgraded Schremp.

But, I'm not foolish enough to think that RLR is the only group that will have Schremp just outside the top 10 on the board.

Who would have thought that Hugh Jessiman would have been 4th on someone's board heading into last year's draft?

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12-03-2003, 08:40 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Dr_Chimera
I didn't call you a fanboy. But that's ok - you're not the first to be confused by what I say.
I'll tell you what - don't worry about it.
Your arrogance is repulsive and oozes from almost every post you make. Not an attack, just an observation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Chimera
If I am am indeed a troll, should I then call you a fanboy?
You have been added to my ignore list, I'm sick of dealing with your holier than thou attitude. Get some humility.

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12-03-2003, 02:41 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jag68Vlady27
If Schremp had demanded a trade out of Ottawa, I could see eyebrows raised about it but let's face it Schremp was hardly alone in wanting out of Mississauga. If it were an isolated incident, maybe you start to wonder. But after Spezza, Jarrett et al...where's the problem, Schremp or the IceDogs program? If Red Line readily admits that Schremp is a top-10 talent then he should appear on their list...unless they can somehow prove that the other 10 players are all Gandhi-like in terms of character.

The problem with the recent RLR report is that it would be more credible if they admitted their own mistakes from time to time, as well as their supposed great calls. By mistakes, I specifically think of Pierre-Marc Bouchard, who was his draft year's Schremp of sorts and yet appears to be a very worthy No. 8 overall selection.

I don't mind patting yourself on the back, just call a spade a spade.
Do you not understand the concept of risk?

 
Old
12-03-2003, 03:04 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
Woodlief has a vendetta against Schremp. He acknowledges his skill-set, but can't let the off ice issues go. That's why he's not in the top ten, when we all know at the draft he'll probably be a top 5 selection.
Couldn't Schremp be this years Patrick O'Sullivan who has top end skills but off ice problems dropped him deep into the 2nd round..

Schremp has already felt the first wave as he was left Team USA for the WJC... I guarantee it was not for lack of skill....

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12-03-2003, 03:27 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
Your arrogance is repulsive and oozes from almost every post you make. Not an attack, just an observation.



You have been added to my ignore list, I'm sick of dealing with your holier than thou attitude. Get some humility.

You have to remember that our dear good Dr. is a contributing writing to McKeen's who by the way also do their own top 100 NHL draft prediction.

I once subsribed to both and IMO Redline wins hands down.

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Old
12-03-2003, 05:33 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
I have supported Redline in the past when I have thought the criticism was unwarranted
More accurately, you loudly support RedLine everytime someone has something bad to say about it.

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Old
12-03-2003, 05:33 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Couldn't Schremp be this years Patrick O'Sullivan who has top end skills but off ice problems dropped him deep into the 2nd round..

Schremp has already felt the first wave as he was left Team USA for the WJC... I guarantee it was not for lack of skill....


Well, Schremp's "issues" and O'Sullivan's "issues" are distinctly differant, so I'm not really comfortable comparing the two. However, it's a possibility the controversy surrounding Schremp could drop him a bit, but I seriously doubt out of the 1st round or even the top 15 picks.

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12-03-2003, 05:42 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger
Couldn't Schremp be this years Patrick O'Sullivan who has top end skills but off ice problems dropped him deep into the 2nd round..

Schremp has already felt the first wave as he was left Team USA for the WJC... I guarantee it was not for lack of skill....
I doubt he will fall all that far but I can see your point and you may be right. It is good that you raised the WJC issue. I haven't seen it in this thread.

It does appear that, in fact, RedLine are not the only one second-guessing Robbie. In act, there have been more red flags about this guy for a LONG time than most other young stars I have seen. And earlier too.

Contrary to last year, this year I cannot follow the CHL much, and thus cannot comment on the decision. It seems reasonable to assume other entities (organizations, scouts) could also drop him from the top 10. And attitude is indeed important, although it must be weighed with the player's upside.

All I know is I will certainly not trust RedLine of all people on this because I find their previous rankings were horrible. As an independant scouting service (not armchair mock drafters) it is their DUTY to rank players based on where they would take them, not where they will supposedly go. That's what they are doing, which is a good thing.

Unfortunately, they do showcase some lack of brain when they go against the grain and put a top-notch player like Staal 7th overall.

So, thumbs up for doing their job like they are supposed to, thumbs down for not always being very good at it.

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12-03-2003, 05:48 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
I doubt he will fall all that far but I can see your point and you may be right. It is good that you raised the WJC issue. I haven't seen it in this thread.

It does appear that, in fact, RedLine are not the only one second-guessing Robbie. In act, there have been more red flags about this guy for a LONG time than most other young stars I have seen. And earlier too.

Contrary to last year, this year I cannot follow the CHL much, and thus cannot comment on the decision. It seems reasonable to assume other entities (organizations, scouts) could also drop him from the top 10. And attitude is indeed important, although it must be weighed with the player's upside.

All I know is I will certainly not trust RedLine of all people on this because I find their previous rankings were horrible. As an independant scouting service (not armchair mock drafters) it is their DUTY to rank players based on where they would take them, not where they will supposedly go. That's what they are doing, which is a good thing.

Unfortunately, they do showcase some lack of brain when they go against the grain and put a top-notch player like Staal 7th overall.

So, thumbs up for doing their job like they are supposed to, thumbs down for not always being very good at it.


An interesting sidenote is the fact that RedLine, one of Schremp's harshest critics had him just outside of their top 10, at number 13. To me, that's a great indicator of how talented he really is.

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