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Old
11-20-2006, 03:35 PM
  #1
Olly2
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Constant Trade Rumors

With the constant trade rumors being thrown out, I am very surprised that names like Lecavalier, Richards, St.Louis, and Boyle are being tossed out.

It looks to me like the guy on his way out is Prospal. The next guy on his way out would be Sarich. That would shed 3.8 million. Add Burke and Andreychuck to that list and the Lightning have freed up 6 million for next year.

The emergence of Alexeev and Craig aleviates the loss of Prospal. Sarich plays a lot of minutes and I am assuming that some of the money will go towards filling his role.

I guess only time will tell, but I just can't see TB trading Richards or Lecavalier away, and I don't see anybody willing to take StLouis or Boyle at their salaries.

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11-20-2006, 04:07 PM
  #2
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I don't know how it started, but there's this myth that since Tampa doesn't have much cap space, they'd trade one of their stars for the trash from other teams.

IF Tampa were to trade one of the 3, it would be to improve the team, not to free cap space. We won't trade a star player for 3rd and 4th liners, crap prospects, and 4th round picks.

Having said that, I think there will be moves made this season. I think one of the things that hurt TB last season was doing NOTHING at the deadline. Not even something minor to just shake things up. If this team keeps coming out and playing with no heart, no will, or no passion, there will be moves made.

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11-20-2006, 04:18 PM
  #3
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I wouldn't mind seeing Boyle or Richards traded. I would be pissed beyond belief if they traded Marty. If they traded Vinny, it would take awhile for me to calm down..

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11-20-2006, 04:28 PM
  #4
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I'm really hoping that if Prospal fails to improve that Jay trades him. He doesn't make much, but he's expected to produce and he simply isn't doing that. He looks slow and isn't doing anything in the offensive zone. Craig and Alexeev have proven they can play on a scoring line and would replace Prospal.

I'm not for trading any of the big 4. Vinny and Marty are producing like they should. Brad is in a bad stretch, but I'm not ready to give up on him after 2 months. I'm not on the trade Boyle bandwagon yet. I just don't see anyone who could replace him right now. I'm not in favor of seeing Luke Richardson getting more ice time and that's what would happen if they trade Boyle. Although, it would depend on the return if they could get a young defenseman like Smid or a proven top 4 guy, but I don't think they would get that in a trade right now. Maybe in the offseason where they could trade him then sign someone.

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11-21-2006, 11:58 AM
  #5
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I'm a pretty patient guy, but it's becoming a possibility that the team needs a bigger overhaul then we want to concede. We simply need more depth and more speed. As much as I think the farm system is underated and has the potential to help, the fact remains we'll bleed talent faster than we can replace it for another year or two. So lack of the right type of talent combined with a slow but general hemmoraging might mean major changs whether we like it or not.

After last night do any of us think it's a matter of tweaking? If the Bolts want to make a major/fundamental change it means trading one of it's top players. I think a case can be made to keep or trade any of the top 10 players on this roster, so I ultimately think it's a matter of salary cap relief and market value.

Personally, I think St Louis is part of the solution. Nobody tries harder or shows up more often. People obsess on his age and contract so you won't get value and his cap number is $5.25M which is 33% less than Brad Richards means less relief than you might think.

I think Vinnie L is a keeper, in theory. Starting to show consistancy and can play both finesse and physical. Ironically, in the "new" NHL needs to be more selfish and shoot shoot shoot a lot more. Downside is rebuilding around him assumes he'll re-up after 2 more years.

Richards is the guy I'd move IF I HAD TO. Simply because he makes the most $$$. I also wonder if his passive / pick the defense apart style isn't good as more teams are going up tempo. I think, arguably, he brings the least versatility to the table.

Realistically, I'd consider trading everyone else on the roster except Ranger, because $ for $ he's too important now and for the next 5 years. Craig is close to that as well.

OK....go ahead and rip me apart...

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11-21-2006, 12:10 PM
  #6
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Vinny and St.Louis have to stay, they pretty much are the team right now. I agree that we have players able to step in for Prospal, but who would take him right now?

Speaking of trades, suppose for a second Denis were traded. Would we necessarily need a goalie back, or would Holmqvist be the #1 with Burke sitting on the bench? I say Burke because I'd rather see our young goalies playing every night than sitting on the bench.

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11-21-2006, 12:18 PM
  #7
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Why people are talikng about trading Lecavelier, Richards, etc

It is really simply and was demonstrated quite clearly last year in the playoffs. You have 4 outstanding players, the above 2, and St Loius and Boyle. After that you have a very very weak 2nd, 3rd and 4th line and a mediocre defense. Why? because you have 24 million dollars invested in 4 players and cannot stock the balance of your team with adequate players. It is exactly the same reason the Minnesota Timberwolves cannot compete in the NBA. Kevin Garnett takes up 40+ % of the salary cap and then is "shocked" when his teammates cannot compete on a nightly basis. If I was Feaster, I would not look to trade one of the big 4 for another star in return..... I would trade one of them for a a couple of 2nd line players or a complete 3rd line. or a pair of 3-4 Dmen

What Edmonton had in spades before last year was tremendous depth on its bottom 2/3rds of its roster. When Pronger, Roloson, SPacek and Peca were added, it completed the team and they could oplay 4 lines and 6 d in the playoffs against anyone all night long.

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11-21-2006, 03:50 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikefromDusseldorf View Post
It is really simply and was demonstrated quite clearly last year in the playoffs. You have 4 outstanding players, the above 2, and St Loius and Boyle. After that you have a very very weak 2nd, 3rd and 4th line and a mediocre defense. Why? because you have 24 million dollars invested in 4 players and cannot stock the balance of your team with adequate players. It is exactly the same reason the Minnesota Timberwolves cannot compete in the NBA. Kevin Garnett takes up 40+ % of the salary cap and then is "shocked" when his teammates cannot compete on a nightly basis. If I was Feaster, I would not look to trade one of the big 4 for another star in return..... I would trade one of them for a a couple of 2nd line players or a complete 3rd line. or a pair of 3-4 Dmen

What Edmonton had in spades before last year was tremendous depth on its bottom 2/3rds of its roster. When Pronger, Roloson, SPacek and Peca were added, it completed the team and they could oplay 4 lines and 6 d in the playoffs against anyone all night long.

Disagree somewhat...Feds, Prospal, Craig & possibly Alexeev are quality talent on any roster. Ranger will be, if he isn't already, the type of defenseman the nhl will need a lot of (jack of all trades, but knows how to get the puck up ice quickly). Yes, they need MORE depth, but you are overstating the problem. I think it's as much an issue of philosophy in terms of types of players then it is a lack of players. It's both.

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11-21-2006, 07:59 PM
  #9
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Tampa needs someone who can throw a freakin hit every now and then. How many times was Buffalo (or any team in the NHL for that matter) able to just skate right up the middle, heads down, with no worry at all because they know not a single softie on the club can make a hit?

If we had a guy who would lay into someone for trying that, teams might have to actually, you know, WORK to score goals against us.

I'm beyond horrid at proposals, but what about something to bring a guy like Volchenkov in from Ottawa? A big guy that isn't afraid to get in there and hit someone.

Until we're ready to bring Smaby or Mihalik up to the big club, we need grit and toughness on this team. We're going to keep getting steamrolled over and over by better teams.

And that's just the first step this team needs to take.

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11-21-2006, 08:11 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpikefromDusseldorf View Post
It is really simply and was demonstrated quite clearly last year in the playoffs. You have 4 outstanding players, the above 2, and St Loius and Boyle. After that you have a very very weak 2nd, 3rd and 4th line and a mediocre defense. Why? because you have 24 million dollars invested in 4 players and cannot stock the balance of your team with adequate players. It is exactly the same reason the Minnesota Timberwolves cannot compete in the NBA. Kevin Garnett takes up 40+ % of the salary cap and then is "shocked" when his teammates cannot compete on a nightly basis. If I was Feaster, I would not look to trade one of the big 4 for another star in return..... I would trade one of them for a a couple of 2nd line players or a complete 3rd line. or a pair of 3-4 Dmen

What Edmonton had in spades before last year was tremendous depth on its bottom 2/3rds of its roster. When Pronger, Roloson, SPacek and Peca were added, it completed the team and they could oplay 4 lines and 6 d in the playoffs against anyone all night long.
I agree with this almost completely. I think we are one or maybe two good third and fourth liners away. I think he should be big and should be able to hit someone. What Torts has forgotten I think is this is still a physical game. We have no one in that role. I also think we are screwed cap wise because the only "moveable" guy is Vinny. Marty won't go and neither will Richards because of their contracts and the fact that Richards plays no defense and refuses to initiate any contact with an opposing player.

The real help needs to come on the blueline first though. We are suddenly beyond weak there and it starts with Mr. Inept himself, Dan Boyle. If I were to trade anyone first, he'd be the guy to go.

But in all honesty, the first thing I'd do is fire the coach. There, I said it. Whatever he is doing to motivate the players is so obviously not working that it has become sickening. I love Torts, but he really needs to go.

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11-21-2006, 08:28 PM
  #11
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I honestly think that if it gets to the half way point and this team is still playing the way they are now, they should pack it in for the season. Start bringing up young kids a few at a time, let them get their feet wet, and see how they play in the NHL game. Start targeting some grinders and a tough guy or two to round out the bottom lines.

I'd be willing to put everything I have on the fact that our D couldn't be any worse with any of Egener, Smaby, Mihalik, or Rogers in there somewhere than it is right now, so maybe think of having them come up.

Get rid of Torts, get rid of Ramsay. I think both of them need to go, regardless of how the season ends. I also think Feaster should be on the very very hot seat. If this team misses the playoffs this year, I think he should be out with the others.

This team was NOT built to win. I saw someone say it wasn't the way this team was built, but the fact that no one shows up, which is crap IMO. When you have to rely on 4-5 guys to show up every night because you sacrificed team wide depth for 3-4 key guys, you aren't going to be able to compete, unless those three guys NEVER miss a game, NEVER slump, and NEVER not show up.

I might be the only one who feels this way, and I know there's a few Tampa fans who are going to roll their eyes when they read this, and they're going to laugh at every single trade proposal, but this team is probably going to miss the playoffs this year, and if they keep going this way, they'll be looking at a top 5 pick in the draft.

If you're happy with that, you're a better fan than I am, because I think they owe it to the fans to do better than that.

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11-22-2006, 08:13 AM
  #12
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The thing that makes me upset, is that if a big trade happens it will involve Vinny. he is the easiest one to trade out of the big 3, with the way he's playing right now it would be completely unfair to trade him. If it happens Jay better bring damn good players to justify the moving of the face of this team.

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11-22-2006, 11:31 AM
  #13
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I hear you, MW. It's not that the people who are content with the situation are better fans; it's that they're fans with blinders on. Just because the players/coaches/staff/GM are "nice people" doesn't negate the fact that this is a business and what needs to be done needs to be done.

And for those of you who keep saying "it used to be worse": we know that, already! Yes, it used to be much worse, but that is NO excuse. Do you want to go back to being the joke of the NHL? I'm already an Islanders fan. Was the Stanley Cup year a fluke? It feels more and more like it -- especially after the bloodbath that was the Sabres game.

Personally, all I want is a team that plays like they actually give a damn. A team that shows up. A team that wants to win, not just gives lipservice to the concept. They're supposed to be professionals, this ain't high school or college or Juniors anymore. The NHL is supposed to be the premier PROFESSIONAL hockey league. Act accordingly, damnit!

Sarich needs to go. Pratt needs to go. Boyle needs to pull it out or go. Prospal -- where the hell has he been? VL4 is actually showing up, but how many hots starts-cold finishes has he had? Face of this team or not, if he starts again with the inconsistency, he needs to go. He does realize it isn't all about him, right? No matter what the press/apologists/his family says.

I will not give up on Richards yet. Slumps happen. Marty's himself again, but he's not getting any younger. His age will always be a liability, and he'd be traded before Richards or VL4.

Torts needs to find a way to motivate the players that doesn't involve screaming, especially as the team doesn't seem to be paying attention to him anymore. If he can't find some other way, he's gotta go.

Feaster is too much of a romantic. "4 guys" over 4 lines?

And where is the hitting? Where is some measure of physicality? I never thought I'd ever say this, but I miss Dingman. Our small guys (STL, Perrin) will throw a hit before anyone else. It's no wonder decent teams walk all over us! It's as if to say, "Here you go, you can have the puck now, I'm done with it." Hey, I've got it -- why don't we save the other team the trouble of moving the puck themselves? Why don't we just put the puck in our own net for you? We can be the NHL's puck concierges!

It just... just...GAH!


I need some air.

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11-22-2006, 11:55 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No-Twitch Tabitha View Post
[COLOR=#006400]Personally, all I want is a team that plays like they actually give a damn. A team that shows up. A team that wants to win, not just gives lipservice to the concept.
EXACTLY!

I think that's the biggest issue here. I don't want to make changes just for the sake of change. I don't want to ship guys and staff off because I'd like to see new faces.

There's no effort from this team. There's no heart. No pride. These guys don't care, and if they do, they sure have an odd way of showing it. You'd think coming off that terrible effort with the Rangers, they'd bounce back, give the fans a reason to turn on the TV or the radio. Instead, we're greeted with even less of an effort, which eventually led to that massacre in the second.

I think problems like that come from staff and not players. Whatever this staff did to get these guys ready to play doesn't work anymore. Nothing works anymore. The PP is terrible (though it has improved), the PK is terrible, the effort is beyond terrible.

Let's get some new guys in here to coach up this team. If that doesn't work, let's start sending away players.

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11-22-2006, 12:11 PM
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A day after one of the Lightning's most embarrassing losses, GM Jay Feaster called for the team to regroup with the understanding that at 10-10-1 and one point out of the Southeast cellar, his patience is limited. "If I have to make a trade to shake things up and get us out of our funk, our complacency, our inconsistency, to get our focus sharp, then that's what we have to do," Feaster said.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...nhl/index.html

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11-22-2006, 12:32 PM
  #16
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*humming "A Little Less Conversation, a Little More Action"*

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11-22-2006, 01:32 PM
  #17
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I honestly think it starts with the coach and his staff. There is an awful lot of talent on this team. Maybe they aren't the best in the league on paper but are we worse than Washington? Hell no. At least we shouldn't be. The motivation to win and the desire to play begins with the coach and his staff. If the players are sick of hearing the same old **** then they are goping to play like ****, it's that simple. Feaster should shut the hell up about trading players and fire the damn coach. Threaten Torts for once. Call him out like he does his players and let's see how he reacts. I'm growing tired of these issues being blamed on the players and the coaching staff getting a free pass time and time again.

By the way Tabitha and MW, awesome thoughts and I agree with both of you completely. The true fan of any team is the one who is most critical when they suck.

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11-23-2006, 11:41 AM
  #18
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St Louis' age is already a liability? No-twitch, I understand what your trying to say, but good lord, 31.5 isn't old. He's leading the team in frackin scoring for crying out load. Oh no, he'll be 36 when the contract is over. Yeah, and...? If you're so sure that the team should be playing so much better right now, why are you dogging it's best player about something that isn't an issue right now - who cares about 3 or 4 years from now - heck, he might only be 3rd or 4th on the team in points by then.

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox. Nothing personal no-twitch, just the straw that broke the camels back, so to speak.

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11-24-2006, 11:09 AM
  #19
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How about this stroke of genius.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=3821


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11-24-2006, 11:46 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Cory Sarich Fan View Post
How about this stroke of genius.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=3821

Anything to get Denis' *** off this team.

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11-24-2006, 12:37 PM
  #21
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Anything to get Denis' *** off this team.
Gerber makes more than Denis and would probably be riding pine to Holmqvist too. Makes no sense.

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11-24-2006, 02:12 PM
  #22
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Anything to get Denis' *** off this team.

I'm going to save this quote.

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11-24-2006, 11:51 PM
  #23
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People need to calm down with the trade rumors and trade talk. We're not going to win every game and we're not going to finish first in our conference(that distinction will belong to Buffalo).

All we need to focus on is winning our division. We can do that with the roster in tow.

The versatility among the forward lines right now is not something I would want to mess with, you can put Lecavalier on a line with Prospal and Fedotenko, you can put Richards between those two instead, you can have St. Louis on either Richy or Vinny's wing, you can pop Alexeev on either top two line and even throw in Craig here and there.

Now all they need to do is mesh together as a team, remember there are many new faces and I think with each passing game this team gets more and more comforable with each other.

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11-25-2006, 12:53 AM
  #24
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It's not about winning. Everyone against the trade seems to think those for the trade are upset about losing games.

It's when this team comes out and shows NOTHING. When they go out there and act like another loss is no big deal. I don't think any REAL fan is ever upset with a loss, as long as they tried. That effort is what lacks (and I won't say "was" lacking, because a 2 game winstreak means nothing when teams are dropping 7 goals on you in a period, and when you almost consistently give games away in really short ammounts of time [see the 3 goals we gave up to Florida in the final 12 minutes of a game we were almost dominating]), and when no one comes out to play, changes need to be made, somewhere.

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11-25-2006, 08:15 AM
  #25
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It's not about winning. Everyone against the trade seems to think those for the trade are upset about losing games.

It's when this team comes out and shows NOTHING. When they go out there and act like another loss is no big deal. I don't think any REAL fan is ever upset with a loss, as long as they tried. That effort is what lacks (and I won't say "was" lacking, because a 2 game winstreak means nothing when teams are dropping 7 goals on you in a period, and when you almost consistently give games away in really short ammounts of time [see the 3 goals we gave up to Florida in the final 12 minutes of a game we were almost dominating]), and when no one comes out to play, changes need to be made, somewhere.


Seriously, you people need to step back and take a look at the big picture here. It isn't just "another loss" and it isn't alright "as long as they tried." Let's take a look at last year's standings here for a second. We finished last year with 90 Points. Atlanta finished with 92 Points. That is a difference of ONE head to head game. Wrap your mind around that for a second here. While right now it may not be a big deal to drop games here and there, in the big picture it is a HUGE deal. We drop two, three or even four games in a row and we are digging ourselves an early grave. I understand that some losses are to be expected; but to claim that a real fan shouldn't be upset by a loss is absolutely and completely preposterous. These losses do matter and in the grand scheme thing you can look back at these games where: "Oh well at least they tried! Yay Lightning!" was all that mattered to you and thank them for our 9th or 10th place seeding.

With the way we are playing that is where we are going to end up. We are going to fall just short and then you people will look back at these games and realize that had we (or the team) been concerned we might not be on the outside looking in. This team is digging an early grave and your people's reactions are making things ten times worse for the realist in myself. Of course I am happy when they win and I am pissed off when they lose because I look at things in the grand scheme of things. We drop three games and then we win one, you people welcome them home like their are saints. I look at them like they are a .250 team in this last stretch and they have a lot of ground to make up. Unfortunately they never make up that ground and they drop a few more, but then they win one and they are saviours again! You are all in a vicious cycle of not realizing where these stretches place us in the standings at the end of the year.

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