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Old
12-21-2006, 08:51 PM
  #1
Raffl House
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Joni Pitkanen

Does anyone else think he looks completely lost and/or snakebitten? I don't think its by chance alone he is -19 (-20 if tonights game finishes this way). His shots look awful, his skating looks worse. I know he has 19 assists, which is great, but he jumps up on the play and is immediately stopped or just skates around the net and does nothing, and is caught. I've seen him give up the puck horribily and it always leads to a goal.

He looked great last season, before and after injury -- 13 goals in 58 games for a defenseman is very solid. Is this a coaching thing, or whats going on with this kid? I'd love to hear everyones thoughts.

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12-21-2006, 09:08 PM
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I don't know what Pitkanen needs. Mike Keenan would be a good place to start because Keenan works really well with young players. I think the problem isn't physical with Joni, it's mental and nobody has taken him to task yet. That's what Joni needs - someone to continually challenge him to be better and someone who will get in his face when he screws up.

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12-21-2006, 09:11 PM
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mikedifr
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I don't know what Pitkanen needs. Mike Keenan would be a good place to start because Keenan works really well with young players. I think the problem isn't physical with Joni, it's mental and nobody has taken him to task yet. That's what Joni needs - someone to continually challenge him to be better and someone who will get in his face when he screws up.
They had that guy. His name was Ken Hitchcock.

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12-21-2006, 09:32 PM
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Pitkanen is either in a really thick fog or he has some of the worst hockey sense I've seen.

Case in point - that 2 on 1 vs the Canes Tuesday night (I think it was with Gagne??) when instead of skating to the net for a pass he just sort of stayed wide and drifted to the net. Embarrassing.

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12-21-2006, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SaveHextall View Post
Pitkanen is either in a really thick fog or he has some of the worst hockey sense I've seen.

Case in point - that 2 on 1 vs the Canes Tuesday night (I think it was with Gagne??) when instead of skating to the net for a pass he just sort of stayed wide and drifted to the net. Embarrassing.
I think he is just in a really bad funk, but one of those that could really hinder his development if someone doesnt find a way to get him out of it. His hockey sense looked amazing the first half of last year. He was one of the best dmen in the league for 25 games or so.

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12-21-2006, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I think he is just in a really bad funk, but one of those that could really hinder his development if someone doesnt find a way to get him out of it. His hockey sense looked amazing the first half of last year. He was one of the best dmen in the league for 25 games or so.
He hasn't been the same since the injury last season.

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12-21-2006, 10:04 PM
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He hasn't been the same since the injury last season.
Yeah, that is another thing that slightly worries me. Sometimes, players are just never the same again after those abdominal injuries. Case in point, Renberg.

Hopefully, it doesnt effect Richards that way.

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12-21-2006, 10:08 PM
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Yeah, that is another thing that slightly worries me. Sometimes, players are just never the same again after those abdominal injuries. Case in point, Renberg.

Hopefully, it doesnt effect Richards that way.
I can't imagine this being pleasant. It hurts to read it:

http://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/te...p?PlayerID=105

Missed 22 games from Dec. 6 through Jan. 19 recovering from surgery performed on Dec. 7 to repair athletic pubalgia (rectus abdominus muscle was pulled off of his pubic bone)...

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12-21-2006, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Yeah, that is another thing that slightly worries me. Sometimes, players are just never the same again after those abdominal injuries. Case in point, Renberg.

Hopefully, it doesnt effect Richards that way.
Pitkanen has had far more injuries than Richards. I don't think we need to worry, yet.

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12-21-2006, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I think he is just in a really bad funk, but one of those that could really hinder his development if someone doesnt find a way to get him out of it. His hockey sense looked amazing the first half of last year. He was one of the best dmen in the league for 25 games or so.
I think it's all about confidence with Joni. The lockout year gave him that confidence in the AHL with Stevens and that carried over into last year. He developed some offensive chemistry with Forsberg and looked like a stud. Then he got injured and that confidence disappeared and has continued to go downhill as we watch this season unfold. He needs something positive to happen.

We haven't seen that dumb smile of his once this year, and I think that's a sign of him having no confidence. He hasn't been that ****-disturber either. Remember how he used to run guys after the whistle, give them shots, and then smile? He doesn't do that anymore. Something is clearly not right.

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12-22-2006, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
I can't imagine this being pleasant. It hurts to read it:

http://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/te...p?PlayerID=105

Missed 22 games from Dec. 6 through Jan. 19 recovering from surgery performed on Dec. 7 to repair athletic pubalgia (rectus abdominus muscle was pulled off of his pubic bone)...
Good lord... how does that even happen? It makes my *** hurt just reading it.

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12-22-2006, 05:46 AM
  #12
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I think it's all about confidence with Joni. The lockout year gave him that confidence in the AHL with Stevens and that carried over into last year. He developed some offensive chemistry with Forsberg and looked like a stud. Then he got injured and that confidence disappeared and has continued to go downhill as we watch this season unfold. He needs something positive to happen.

We haven't seen that dumb smile of his once this year, and I think that's a sign of him having no confidence. He hasn't been that ****-disturber either. Remember how he used to run guys after the whistle, give them shots, and then smile? He doesn't do that anymore. Something is clearly not right.
Well, a start would be getting him someone to play with that he is comfortable with, like Rathje was the first half last year. Maybe Gauthier when he comes back? From what I hear, Gauthier is one of those calming personalities in the locker room, maybe he would help him? You also need someone with him that is a pure stay at home guy IMO. That way Joni can roam, and have someone back there covering for him

I think part of the reason he lost his confidence is that he is just giving up so many goals. He used to roam, and Rathje would protect the puck. Now he roams even a little, and its a goal against.

Maybe he misses Desjardins They played together a good bit too.

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12-22-2006, 06:47 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Well, a start would be getting him someone to play with that he is comfortable with, like Rathje was the first half last year. Maybe Gauthier when he comes back? From what I hear, Gauthier is one of those calming personalities in the locker room, maybe he would help him? You also need someone with him that is a pure stay at home guy IMO. That way Joni can roam, and have someone back there covering for him

I think part of the reason he lost his confidence is that he is just giving up so many goals. He used to roam, and Rathje would protect the puck. Now he roams even a little, and its a goal against.

Maybe he misses Desjardins They played together a good bit too.

I thought Timmonen and Pitkanen were playing well together, whatever happened to that pairing? I keep hearing that the younger dmen aren't ready for big minutes yet the higher paid dmen make mistake after mistake with impunity and there's no suggestion that maybe if a mistake is going to be made let it be the young guys.

Zhitnik mistake - it happens.
Meyer mistake - he's not ready for the NHL or big minutes we shouldn't play him.

Why is it so much worse when a younger player makes mistakes vs older players?

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12-22-2006, 08:48 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Storm in a Teacup View Post
I think it's all about confidence with Joni. The lockout year gave him that confidence in the AHL with Stevens and that carried over into last year. He developed some offensive chemistry with Forsberg and looked like a stud. Then he got injured and that confidence disappeared and has continued to go downhill as we watch this season unfold. He needs something positive to happen.

We haven't seen that dumb smile of his once this year, and I think that's a sign of him having no confidence. He hasn't been that ****-disturber either. Remember how he used to run guys after the whistle, give them shots, and then smile? He doesn't do that anymore. Something is clearly not right.
To be honest i think he's over confidant. He thinks he can do anything with the puck. He needs to get back to the basics. I agree he might not be over some of his injuries, but it's like he's not thinking out there, just trying to do it all, and that doesn't work.

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12-22-2006, 09:10 AM
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hey if u guys are lookin to trade him the devils will give you paul martin + more for him.

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12-22-2006, 10:51 AM
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hey if u guys are lookin to trade him the devils will give you paul martin + more for him.
I don't think Lou Lamoriello would appreciate you trying to do his job on a message board.

Back to Pits -- I know mistakes are part of the game. Personally, at this point, I'd rather him make the mistakes and learn. This season is going to be tough, and lets face it -- we don't look like we match up against any team well.

Last night, Montreal took the play to us. It was 5 on 5 and it looked like a Pittsburgh power play from about 3 years ago, when they used 5 forwards on the power play and one of them was named Mario. Kovalev deked a few of our guys right out of the building -- I'm surprised the score was that close. In any event, let the young guys make their mistakes. Stevens seems like a good guy, and he wants energy, but energy to me was always agitating and forechecking -- at times we do this, but other times we let the team take it down our throats. If we are an energy team, then we need to do it for 60 minutes, and people like Joni need to get some things straightened out...

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12-22-2006, 10:56 AM
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I hope they find a way to get Joni playing better soon... He's one of my favorite Flyers.

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12-22-2006, 03:20 PM
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mikedifr
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Originally Posted by Flyers_01 View Post
I thought Timmonen and Pitkanen were playing well together, whatever happened to that pairing? I keep hearing that the younger dmen aren't ready for big minutes yet the higher paid dmen make mistake after mistake with impunity and there's no suggestion that maybe if a mistake is going to be made let it be the young guys.

Zhitnik mistake - it happens.
Meyer mistake - he's not ready for the NHL or big minutes we shouldn't play him.

Why is it so much worse when a younger player makes mistakes vs older players?
I agree with you. I still think that was a dumb trade. If Timonen is the one that makes him feel comfortable and they play well together, let it be. This team obviously does not want all those young dmen in there though.

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12-23-2006, 09:29 AM
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Im really disapointed of Pitkänen this season. Something has to be wrong, i know the whole team sucks right now but Pitkänen is playing with 50% of his level. I really hope Flyers would find their game cause they are my second favorite team..

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12-23-2006, 09:31 AM
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Before the season he was in my top 10 d-men of the whole league, but clearly that has changed. I really hope he would find his game, but i agree with those who say there's something wrong with him.

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12-23-2006, 09:50 AM
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He has lost that growl, he use to be more of an annoyance to other players now he goes thru the motions.. time to relocate i think.

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12-23-2006, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by joethunder View Post
Does anyone else think he looks completely lost and/or snakebitten? I don't think its by chance alone he is -19 (-20 if tonights game finishes this way). His shots look awful, his skating looks worse. I know he has 19 assists, which is great, but he jumps up on the play and is immediately stopped or just skates around the net and does nothing, and is caught. I've seen him give up the puck horribily and it always leads to a goal.

He looked great last season, before and after injury -- 13 goals in 58 games for a defenseman is very solid. Is this a coaching thing, or whats going on with this kid? I'd love to hear everyones thoughts.

He needs a good vet to back him up and give him the confidence he needs to be effective . Eric Dejardains certainly provided that leadership and presence. Now he just looks loke a lost little boy half the time. And I hate that swoop around the net into nothingness move that he is constantly doing. Its almost as bad as Jason Spezza's blind drop passes that end up in goals the other way.

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12-23-2006, 02:44 PM
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mikedifr
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He has lost that growl, he use to be more of an annoyance to other players now he goes thru the motions.. time to relocate i think.
Yeah, trade a 23 year old future star in the league after 2 1/2 years. That makes a whole lot of sense.

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Old
12-23-2006, 03:00 PM
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Pitkanen.. Lets face it.
Arguable the worst player on this team behind only Calder (assuming Rathje Nedved and Dimi will not play here again). Became very lazy, bad penalties, doesn't take the body, plays no D, turn overs. Night in and night out. I forget the last time he had a good game. Maybe a month ago. He is painful to watch. All that talent.

Anyone who thinks he deserves 3M a year at this point is just crazy. He doesn't deserve 2M a year either. Now I am not saying he should be traded but he does not play like #1, #2 or #3 D. More like 5 in almost every game.

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12-23-2006, 03:12 PM
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mikedifr
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Pitkanen.. Lets face it.
Arguable the worst player on this team behind only Calder (assuming Rathje Nedved and Dimi will not play here again). Became very lazy, bad penalties, doesn't take the body, plays no D, turn overs. Night in and night out. I forget the last time he had a good game. Maybe a month ago. He is painful to watch. All that talent.

Anyone who thinks he deserves 3M a year at this point is just crazy. He doesn't deserve 2M a year either. Now I am not saying he should be traded but he does not play like #1, #2 or #3 D. More like 5 in almost every game.
Man you can point to this entire team and say those things at some point this season. (except for Nitty of course, cause he is god) The team stinks, plain and simple. I will agree with your comments on Pitkanen from a defensive standpoint, but he is still out best and ONLY offensive dman at this point. He does his job by taking chances. Unfortunately, no one is there to cover for him, and he isnt playing chippy like he used to.

He will be fine, he is only 23. Dmen dont usually hit their potential until about 25 years old.

I would agree with you on the salary, however, it doesnt work that way unfortunately. His agent, if smart, will point to Kronwall in Detroit and compare their NHL careers to this point, and Pitkanen will get $3 million.

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