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Old
12-01-2003, 11:29 AM
  #1
Dr Love
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The Pittsburgh Penguins

I think this is a topic very much worthy of discussion.

The trading of Straka is another red flag in the recent economic woes of this franchise. How much longer can the franchise survive in it's current state, if it needs to ship out name talent in order to survive? A new arena and it's new revenues is at best 2 years away. And until an arena is secured, I can't see any outside investors taking stock of the team, as the future of the franchise is a question mark. What lies in store for the future of the team?

Your thoughts?

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12-01-2003, 11:58 AM
  #2
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I'm certainly no expert on the business aspect of the NHL, and this may all be wishful thinking on my part, but I expect the Penguins to make a significant recovery, financially speaking.

Supposedly, the Penguins are very close to securing funding for a new arena. If this does indeed happen, the Penguins should be in pretty good shape. At least for the 1st season, the Pirates' attendance increased significantly when PNC park was finished. The Pirates had a bad team that year, but people still came to the games. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen to the Penguins too, especially if some of their prospects are starting to play well by then (who knows, maybe the Pens will actually ice a good team by the time they have a new arena). If the Penguins manage to have a good team and a new arena, they should be in excellent financial shape.

Of course, any long term financial stability for a small market team like the Penguins will most likely hinge upon the creation of a favorable CBA. A new arena will most likely solve, or at least help the Penguins' money woes in the short term, but eventually, the novelty will wear off (just as it has for the Pirates). Without a salary cap or some major revenue sharing, the Penguins will fall prey to typical small-market problems, and in the long term, will probably be moved.

If the Penguins get their new arena, but don't get a favorable CBA, they will probably stay in Pittsburgh for a decade or 2, but I would expect them to be sold and moved soon after that. However, if the Penguins can not get a new arena, they will almost certainly be sold and moved as soon as the lease on the Mellon Arena expires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
The trading of Straka is another red flag in the recent economic woes of this franchise. How much longer can the franchise survive in it's current state, if it needs to ship out name talent in order to survive?
The Penguins are, indeed in bad shape, but one thing that is important to remember is that they are losing very little money as it stands. I'm sure someone can correct my numbers, but unless I'm mistaken, the Penguins lost about $2 million last year and actually gained $5 million the year before. The team is currently in 'survival mode', and they seem to be doing just that, at least until they can get a new arena and/or CBA.

I realize that this could all be my blind optimism at work, but that is my take on the Penguins' financial situation.

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Old
12-01-2003, 12:01 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
The trading of Straka is another red flag in the recent economic woes of this franchise.
Why do you say this? I agree that Pittsburgh needs a new arena, but you aren't suggesting that it is a smart hockey decision to keep Straka do you? Here's an injury prone player making more than $4 million on a team going nowhere. And you think it is a good idea to keep him?

Forget the money: Here is an injury prone 31 year old player on a team going nowhere.

The choice:

1) Keep Straka and keep on losing.

2) Trade Straka and get a 19 year old prospect in return.

Do you think a rebuilding team should keep Straka or get a player who might be good in three years? In three years, Pittsburgh will be like Buffalo is this year if they make good choices and deal guys like Straka. If they keep Straka in three years they have a 34 year old bum and they are even further behind. If Lemieux didn't own the team, I'd trade him too.

How else do you build a good young team? You take your drafts and add them to prospects you get for veterans with trade value.

How is one supposed to rebuild? Rebuilding isn't allowed in the NHL any more? Rebuilding is a red flag? When did rebuilding become wrong? How else do you build a good team?

Tom

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Old
12-01-2003, 12:09 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asab
The Penguins are, indeed in bad shape, but one thing that is important to remember is that they are losing very little money as it stands. I'm sure someone can correct my numbers, but unless I'm mistaken, the Penguins lost about $2 million last year and actually gained $5 million the year before. The team is currently in 'survival mode', and they seem to be doing just that, at least until they can get a new arena and/or CBA.

I realize that this could all be my blind optimism at work, but that is my take on the Penguins' financial situation.
They may be losing very little money, but they are alienating their fan-base in the process. The on-ice product that they are willing to put out there is appaling. It says a lot when your best, regularly playing player is an 18 year old goaltender.

I think this team is going to have a tough time maintaining the fan-base needed to ever be a legitimate market in the U.S. They had a mini-dynasty in the early nineties, and they still couldn't generate enough money to secure their future over the long-term. Chances, they won't ever achieve the same level of success again, which means that, if they do not fold, that they will probably be operating in a similar fashion for a long time.

I can't speak about the arena, as I don't know what the details are of the rumoured deal. DOes anyone have the specifics. How is this deal going to be funded. Is it reliant on public funds, or private investment. If it's the latter, I think this team may continue operating on a limited budget for a long-time, as enough money will need to be withdrawn to satisfy the investors, making it difficult for them to invest additional funds in payroll at the same time. Even with a favourable CBA, I have a tough time seeing Pittsburgh being a legitimate NHL market.

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12-01-2003, 01:25 PM
  #5
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Couple of FYI to help this along

1) Mario took a $5mill pay cut to help the team out today

2) Projected losses for the season are at $5mill ($8mill if Fleury stays). They were looking at $18mill before the Straka trade and Mario taking a 50% paycut.

Link

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Old
12-01-2003, 02:40 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
Why do you say this? I agree that Pittsburgh needs a new arena, but you aren't suggesting that it is a smart hockey decision to keep Straka do you? Here's an injury prone player making more than $4 million on a team going nowhere. And you think it is a good idea to keep him?
That's not what I am saying at all. It was a salary dump, plain and simple, look at the return they got, and coupled with the news of Mario slashing his salary. I'm sorry if you don't see it that way. And even if it isn't, that doesn't make the topic of the Pens financial woes meaningless.

In answer to DiscoStu's question, the last I saw the Pens would front $47M, and MTR Gaming Group, based in West Virginia, would pay $60M under the condition they be granted the right to build a horse track in Allegheny County, PA. Public funds are a must, the state forked out money for the new stadiums of the Pirates, Steelers, Phillies, and Eagles in the past 3 years.

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Old
12-01-2003, 03:31 PM
  #7
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The arena basically relies on wether or not that horse track is built, which is a matter of slot gambling being legalized in Pennsylvania, or at least in this one area, as it is currently illegal. The Penguins would not need to wait for the track to be built to reap the benefits and the ruling is expected by the end of the year, so if it is legalized as expected plans for a new arena should take place before the start of next season.

The new arena is what this team is banking on, they're heading into the CBA with tons of good youth and not one single contract guaranteed past this season, this team is obviously banking on a favorable CBA and a new arena, if the arena gets built and a favorable CBA is put into place the Penguins will be back into prominance within a few years, if one goes through they should be a decent franchise, if neither goes through it's all over for the Penguins in Pittsburgh.

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Old
12-01-2003, 03:44 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
How else do you build a good young team? You take your drafts and add them to prospects you get for veterans with trade value.

How is one supposed to rebuild? Rebuilding isn't allowed in the NHL any more? Rebuilding is a red flag? When did rebuilding become wrong? How else do you build a good team?

Tom
Rebuilding means trading veterans for quality prospects. What the Penguins are doing is trading veterans for crap. The Peguins are not rebuilding, they're dumping salary because they are losing huge amounts of money.

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12-01-2003, 06:33 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu

I think this team is going to have a tough time maintaining the fan-base needed to ever be a legitimate market in the U.S. They had a mini-dynasty in the early nineties, and they still couldn't generate enough money to secure their future over the long-term. Chances, they won't ever achieve the same level of success again, which means that, if they do not fold, that they will probably be operating in a similar fashion for a long time.
The Penguins received massive amounts of revenue during the 90's this is true. But their owner screwed over the franchise with deferred outrageous contracts that put the team into a bankrupt situation. The fan base was always there, the money was just not spent wisely back then.

Now the economics of the city have changed. Steel is down. People are laid off. Not many have the money to attend hockey games anymore. Nearly every corporation dropped their season tickets for Penguin games once the decline in the economy set in.

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Old
12-02-2003, 02:54 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_Benjamin
How is one supposed to rebuild? Rebuilding isn't allowed in the NHL any more? Rebuilding is a red flag? When did rebuilding become wrong? How else do you build a good team?
No youre right. The Pens have no money problems. They are just another lying team with a greedy owner trying to make more money.

Never mind the fact this team is rebuilding because they had to trade all their talent.

I dont know how you dont get it. The Pens are not rebuilding because their players got old and it was time to reload. They were a couple defenseman away from having a serious contender and had to trade talent because they had no money. Why would the Pens trade all those players when they could have made 2-3 runs at the cup with just a little retooling?

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Old
12-02-2003, 03:48 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davemess
Couple of FYI to help this along

1) Mario took a $5mill pay cut to help the team out today

2) Projected losses for the season are at $5mill ($8mill if Fleury stays). They were looking at $18mill before the Straka trade and Mario taking a 50% paycut.

Link
It's becoming more and more apparent that this team is barely keeping it's head above water. This is pure cash-based management at work here. I think it's obvious there isn't much free capital left in the organization, and no new money is willing to support additional losses, which means that there's a firesale going on. I wonder if they will be able to put together the $10 mil war-chest that every owner is required to put together for the lock-out. I have my doubts, and they may run into additional problems if and when a lockout happens.

I sympathize with Mario, whose been trying to get his money out any way he can, but it looks like this franchise is hitting the wall.

As for the arena, I don't know the full situation about the arena deal, although, everyone's research was helpful, but if I'm the politician whose responsible for making the call on this, I'd be VERY reluctant. I'm not sure an arena can save this team. As others have said, the steel industry is not doing well right now, and there's no guarantee that an arena is going to save this team. If public money is used to build an arena, especially with a depressed local economy, and the team still ends up folding or relocating in the near future, then it will be a major blow to the city. If it was me, I probably wouldn't be eager to take that risk.

It may not seem fair, with the other sports receiving public assistance, but it may be the reality.

For those who are actually in the Pittsburgh market, can someone tell me where hockey ranks right now in terms of public support. Would the loss of the team result in a backlash to local politicians who let it happen? How do the Penguins rank against the Pirates or the Steelers. I would expect that it's probably a distant third, but I'm just hypothesizing. I'm also assuming that on a state perspective, the Philly market is much more important than the Pittsburgh market (in terms of population size, and thus votes). All of this adds up to the the Penguins being a low priority for public money, since assuring their future would not solidify as many votes as it would in other areas.

If someone could validate or correct some of these assumptions, it would be much appreciated.

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Old
12-02-2003, 04:06 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
For those who are actually in the Pittsburgh market, can someone tell me where hockey ranks right now in terms of public support. Would the loss of the team result in a backlash to local politicians who let it happen? How do the Penguins rank against the Pirates or the Steelers. I would expect that it's probably a distant third, but I'm just hypothesizing. I'm also assuming that on a state perspective, the Philly market is much more important than the Pittsburgh market (in terms of population size, and thus votes). All of this adds up to the the Penguins being a low priority for public money, since assuring their future would not solidify as many votes as it would in other areas.

If someone could validate or correct some of these assumptions, it would be much appreciated.
Well if you want to know what its like in Pittsburgh heres the truth. Ive lived in Pittsburgh my whole life so Im in no way trying to be insulting this is just the way it is.

1. Stillers
2. Breathing
3. Stillers
4. Drinking
5. Stillers
6. Stillers
7. Stillers
8. Stillers
9. Stillers
10. Stillers
Penguins what? Pirates who?

Nothing exists in Pittsburgh except the Steelers. And this city loves to live in the 70's. Its an old town that has young people itching to leave. Quite honestly its a dying city. Like I said this is not meant to be insulting just a sad truth.

Just to give you an example. A local radio call in show got an email from someone claiming to have worked for the Pirates. He claimed the team was lying about their financial loses. The next call came in and the guy asks "Do you think Chad Scott is gonna play good this year?". If you bring up how good Fleury has been undoubtly the next caller is going to say Charlie Batch should be starting over Tommy Maddox. Its almost disgusting how much peoples lives revolve around the Steelers.

There is a big myth about Pittsburgh. The myth that it is a hard working blue collar town that just wants to see a team that works hard. The Pirates worked hard and didnt get support, the Pens are a hard working team that gets no support. The Steelers are an overpaid under acheiving team that ges everyones full attention. The truth is Pittsburgh, and not unlike a lot of other citites, is a fairweather, one horse town. If the Pirates and Penguins start winning attendance wil go up, as long as the Steelers dont have anything planned.


Last edited by iagreewithidiots: 12-02-2003 at 04:16 AM.
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Old
12-02-2003, 04:17 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
1. Stillers
2. Breathing
3. Stillers
4. Drinking
5. Stillers
6. Stillers
7. Stillers
8. Stillers
9. Stillers
10. Stillers
Penguins what? Pirates who?
Wow, they're a big fan of the Stillers, eh? Zoolander must have been very popular there, having both Jerry and Ben in that movie.

Seriously though, it's pretty much what I thought, except, I thought that baseball had some presence there. It begs the question though, if the Pirates are such a low priority, how did they secure public funds for a stadium?

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12-02-2003, 04:24 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
Wow, they're a big fan of the Stillers, eh? Zoolander must have been very popular there, having both Jerry and Ben in that movie.

Seriously though, it's pretty much what I thought, except, I thought that baseball had some presence there. It begs the question though, if the Pirates are such a low priority, how did they secure public funds for a stadium?
What happend was the Pirates jumped on what they called plan b for new stadiums.

Plan a was an increase in sales tax by .5 percent which was voted down so the politicians went with plan b and spent other tax money on the staduims. The Pens were given the option to jump on board or take money to renevate their arena. The former owner, and major reason they are in the mess they are now, Howard Baldwin took the money.

Baseball is down the tubes. Just the fans from the 70's hanging on to Roberto Clemente memories. Most people wouldnt care less if the Pirates moved. Same with the Pens. Honestly I think they would enjoy it cause then the Steelers would take up the entire sports section.

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Old
12-02-2003, 04:28 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coolguy3650
Rebuilding means trading veterans for quality prospects. What the Penguins are doing is trading veterans for crap. The Peguins are not rebuilding, they're dumping salary because they are losing huge amounts of money.
According to the Forecaster, one of those prospects has star potential.

Why should the Penguins expect a whole lot for Straka? After all, he's a small winger with a big contract who has never performed anywhere but Pittsburgh. The guy's been released by teams in the past. With his contract and injury history, he isn't a very attractive asset.

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12-02-2003, 04:34 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iagreewithidiots
What happend was the Pirates jumped on what they called plan b for new stadiums.

Plan a was an increase in sales tax by .5 percent which was voted down so the politicians went with plan b and spent other tax money on the staduims. The Pens were given the option to jump on board or take money to renevate their arena. The former owner, and major reason they are in the mess they are now, Howard Baldwin took the money.
I guess I need some of the back-story.

I'm assuming that Baldwin took the money, and given that the arena's still in bad shape, I'm also assuming that it wasn't put into renovations as it was originally intended. Is this right? If so, someone wasn't doing their job in the government. If public funds are given for a specific purpose, it needs to be spent for that purpose, or returned back to the government. The government needs to act as a watchdog to ensure that this happens.

This probably fell around the time of the Pens bankruptcy, I assume. Was any public money recovered in that case. Was there any backlash at the government for letting this slip, or at Baldwin himself for getting money out? How did the money get used? Was it ever determined during bankruptcy proceedings if Baldwin used the money to off-set losses of the Penguins, or did he manage to withdraw the funds using any means.

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12-02-2003, 05:22 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
I guess I need some of the back-story.
Heres a good timeline from the Postgazette about the stadiums, nothing abou the Pens though.

http://www.post-gazette.com/regionst...5timeline3.asp

This is a pretty good article with a good back ground, of course it is kinda long.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/trib.../s_129252.html


Baldwin did take the money.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Facing mounting losses, estimated at $20 million in the shortened 1994-95 season and $13 million the next season, Baldwin recruited Boston millionaire Roger Marino as an equal partner in 1997 to infuse cash into the franchise. Marino secretly sent out feelers to other cities about relocating the franchise.

Baldwin considered building a new arena, but instead decided to remodel the Civic Arena in 1997 and add pricey club seats using $12.9 million from the Regional Asset Distinct. The RAD money also paid off an earlier expansion project that added the arena's F-level seating."
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Its also interesting the Pens, under Baldwin, really helped start the escalation of salaries that has them in trouble now.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Former Penguins owner Howard Baldwin made a foreboding comment a few years after buying the team in 1991, coming off the franchise's first Stanley Cup championship:

"It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know that salaries are increasing at an astounding rate. Every team should set limits. Otherwise, you'll be setting tickets at prices that are beyond the means of fans to afford," he said in a published report.

However, Baldwin was one of the owners at the time bidding up the same salaries he rebuked.

Baldwin mortgaged the team's future on the bet he could keep the championship team running on all cylinders.

Baldwin's Penguins repeated as champs in 1992, and he signed Lemieux to a six-year, $42 million contract. A dynasty seemed in the making.

The $7 million annually to Lemieux equalled the team's total payroll from just two years earlier. The team would re-sign almost all of its top players, driving payroll from a league-leading $14 million in 1991-92 to second behind only the New York Rangers at $34 million by the 1996-97 season.

Though Baldwin's signings helped touch off league-wide salary inflation, the Penguins couldn't keep up once new arenas began opening around the league."
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Old
12-02-2003, 09:51 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davemess
Couple of FYI to help this along

1) Mario took a $5mill pay cut to help the team out today

2) Projected losses for the season are at $5mill ($8mill if Fleury stays). They were looking at $18mill before the Straka trade and Mario taking a 50% paycut.

Link
It's imperative that the Pens keep their losses at a level that's affordable to their ownership group. If they're asked to kick in too much cash and they refuse, the team goes back into bankruptcy. That would give the NHL the power to dissolve the franchise. I have no doubt that the NHL would use that as a bargaining chip in the CBA negotiations. The Pens need to stay solvent to avoid being used as pawns.

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12-02-2003, 10:13 AM
  #19
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Baldwin really screwed over this franchise's future.

iagreewithidiots, I think that Baldwin gave Mario a 42 million lifetime contract. So he would be a Penguin for life. Lemieux in turn only played something like 4 or 5 seasons under the contract making it seem like an outrageous sum. But had he never retired in the first place, Lemieux would still be on that contract signed in 1993 I thought. I could be wrong.

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12-08-2003, 07:28 AM
  #20
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Everyone knows my stance on the Management issues . I'll just say this:

How are the Penguins supposed to stay above water, even if a new CBA is put into place? Furthermore, how are they going to even pay those high draft picks that they will recieve? I think the Penguins are in a lot of trouble, and I'm not sure they can recover (I hope they will, but I'm not sure if its possible). Money is the issue, and even if their is cost-certainity in a new league, the Pens are still going to thave the same troubles paying the team that they are icing right now, regardless of who else becomes available for the taking. They are still losing 5 million, at a very low 23.2 million salary structure this year

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12-08-2003, 09:23 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by mariano
The Pens are simply being run on a business basis. Whiile teams like St. Louis spend like crazy and are willing lose a fortune. (It's teams like this who are the villans of the NHL. At least the Rangers can affors their spending.) the Pens are not.
Interesting argument, except that the Blues don't seem to be spending beyond their means.

Their true 'villainy', it seems, is convincing the NHL fanbase that they're a team in trouble as well.

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12-09-2003, 11:45 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariano
This is all utter nonsense. First, HAD to pay deferred money because the Pens could not possibly have paid all their star players at the time. Peoplewho citicize Baldwin never seem to mention that 2 stanley cups that his "overspending" produced.

The one exception is Mario's contract, the main cause of the Pens bankrupcy. The deal was for $42 million WHETHER MARIO PLAYED OR NOT. When Mario retired, he was owed over $20 million for games that he never played. People saythat Mario saved the team. It would be closer to the truth to say that Mario killed it. Anyone who critizes Baldwin's spending need to criticize Mario's greed as well.

Where Baldwin hurt the Pens is selling the concession, advertising and parking rights to get enough capital to buy the team.

But the bizarre statrement is "Now the economics of the city have changed. Steel is down. People are laid off. Not many have the money to attend hockey games anymore."

Huh? The steel industry died in the 70's and 80's. It could not possibly affect Pens current situation. Pittsburgh hasn't been a steel town for 25 years.

You also contradict yourself. One the one hand you say "The fan base was always there," on the other you blame "Nearly every corporation dropped their season tickets." If the fan base were there, how come the Pens had to rely on corporate ticket sales.

Let's get is straight. It's very simple:

People don't go to hockey games because the team is losing, the tickets are expensive and the NHL is boring. The Pens are in the top thirs in ticket prices and have the worst team in the league. It's not really very complicated
Fine, want me to specifiy? The local economy is down. The entire area took a major hit because of financial situations. People dropped season tickets. Corporations which were most of the "Club level" seating season tickets dropped their packages. If going to a Pens game you will notice how the club level is by the far most empty section of the arena excluding the F balconies.

The fan base is there. Just a lot of those people would rather spend the money on supporting their family or save it at this point because of the instability of the economy.

Every team in the league depends on corporate sales. I can guarantee you that. Most of those "premiumm seats" across arena's are either absolute die hard fans, people with more money than they know what to do with, or using the company seats for the night. So don't preach to me about if the fan base is there why do they need corporate sales.

Yes the team is losing and less people are going because of that, but it is not the only factor involved right now.

Also, Baldwin was one of the idiots who allowed these salaries to escalate to the point that they are. I admire the man for bringing success to the franchise, but he was also an idiot. Mario's contract did what the fans wanted. It locked up Mario long term. No one thought Mario would be done playing after such a short time. So at the time I doubt that clause that paid him if he played or not, garned much attention at all. Now it looks like a major mistake, but hindsight is after all 20/20.

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12-14-2003, 06:24 AM
  #23
iagreewithidiots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mariano
The real story in Pittsburgh is very simple. Everything that they do centers around Mario Lemieux's financial benefit. Everything.

The Pens are not sinking. Their financial situation is far better than many teams. They will lose very little money on operations. Many teams are going to lose a fortune.

The Pens are simply being run on a business basis. Whiile teams like St. Louis spend like crazy and are willing lose a fortune. (It's teams like this who are the villans of the NHL. At least the Rangers can affors their spending.) the Pens are not.

The real financial drag on the team is Mario. The reason that they shed all their assets is so that they could afford to pay Mario his $10 million a year without going too far in the whole. In fact, they tried to hide $5 milllion of this until a newspaper leeked the story and created a rear uproar. That's why he gave it back.

Mario bought the team to get his money. and he continues to look for ways to wring every cent out of it for himself that he can. Mario may have once been a great player. But that doesn't make him a great human being. In fact, he is just Mr. Average who is looking out for his own best interest.
You know I was with you until you started rambling about Mario this and Mario that. God if you hate Mario thats your choice but dont ruin a perfectly good argument to dig the knife deeper.

The Pens are not going to lose as much money as many other teams, this is true, but it is because they cannot afford to lose as much money as other teams, so they dont spend as much. The Pens financial situation is in no way far better than most teams.

You have no evidence that the sole reason the Pens traded away money was to give it to Mario. What about the other officers and owners of the Pens why does it only matter what Mario makes? And Id like to know why no one makes an issue over how much the CEO's of the Steelers and Pirates pull in as salary? Its not even brought up.

If Mario was so greedy why not do the one thing that would spite the Pens the most. Go sign with the Rangers and get paid the $15 million + per year he could have gotten. He could have forgiven the debt and then instead of being greedy he would be stupid. I dont care how much money you have why should you have to lose 30 million dollars? Sounds to me like Mr. Average is just mad cause Marios got the money and he doesnt.

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12-16-2003, 05:15 AM
  #24
cbjrocks
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I drove over to PIT from Columbus Saturday to watch the Pens play the Blue Jackets..beside the CBJ losing another road game, I walked away from the game knowing one thing..

Mellon Arena is a pit...that team cannot survive in a place like that.

The CBJ may be terrible this season, but Nationwide Arena, and the revenue it generates for the CBJ is what is going to keep hockey in Columbus for many years.

The same could happen in PIT...but I doubt it.

My hope is the Pens move to Portland, the NHL really wants a presence in the US Pacific Northwest, that will free up a spot in the East for the CBJ!

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12-19-2003, 09:27 PM
  #25
Jacob
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If public money is used to build an arena, especially with a depressed local economy, and the team still ends up folding or relocating in the near future, then it will be a major blow to the city. If it was me, I probably wouldn't be eager to take that risk.
Penguins or not, the city needs a new arena for concerts, boat shows and things of that nature that are currently skipping Mellon Arena because it is so outdated.

Quote:
The on-ice product that they are willing to put out there is appaling
As appauling as the Capitals? Or maybe of the Hurricanes of last year? Or the Senators for like, 5 straight seasons? They're a bad team, but I certainly wouldn't use the word "appauling" to describe them. They are unlike most basement dwellers in that their roster is mostly comprised of promising young players, not career minor leaguers that they're trying to jumpstart.

Quote:
The same could happen in PIT...but I doubt it.
It's looking more and more like it will happen. I'm not sure why you wouldn't want it to, Columbus and Pittsburgh could have a great rivalry.

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