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Renney and the rebuild

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Old
12-23-2006, 06:27 PM
  #1
Ola
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Renney and the rebuild

First of all, I would like to state that we are defenitly in a serious rebuild.

We only have 2 players tied up after next season. The brass, Sather, Maloney and Renney could easily have made their jobs a helluva lot easier by signing a couple vet D's for example. Like Chara for example. They haven't.

It aren't talked about at all, not strange since quit frankly this place at times is nothing more then a pissing contest arena with people trying to prove their "points" and can't stand following a mediocre team. Not much reasonable discussion, unfortunatly. Though that if anything is a helluva important issue, we are not risking the future in any way or form. I know I am gooing to be here in 5 years, and for me thats extremely important, there is allot of pressure on Sather, Renney and Co. here in NY, and like I said, giving someone twice the dough Cullen is making and their jobs gets allot easier right now, but tougher down the line.

Thats something that matters. Still allot of people here are more concerned about extremely small details, like if Isbister gets 6 minutes on a 4th line.

Second, on Renney and the youth, allot of notions out there that really suprises me at this stage, after what we have seen here the last decade.

Just because a young player is hyped it doesn't mean its a sure thing that he is gooing to be a star. Take Tomas Pck for example, he may or may not make it some day. But he have allot of flaws too, I know that there were a big fuzz when he signed and he were supposed to be great, but how many times haven't we heard that before? I don't know were it comes from, are all prospects great in the NBA or MLB? The faith so many fans here have in the kids are a bit strange. And once in NY, their are no honeymoon either, look at Kondratiev, he were 3-4 steps ahead of Baranka and Pck and he had a tought time...

Check the threads from us fans who have seen Pck in HFD, I don't know if anyone of us ever have been all that impressed or without big concerns, he is a forward who are playing D, and are having allot of trouble defensivly in the AHL.

Its not strange that he haven't been given a free ride in NY.

Renney, from my perspective, defenitly seems like a great youth coach. He is very patient with the youth. Very concerned with dooing the right thing, bringing them up properly and giving them every possible chance to get somewere. There are so many examples of kids beeing rushed out there, and so extremely few examples of kids beeing rushed having success. I defenitly belives that Renney are on the right track here. Thats how NJD always have brought up their kids for example, see Niklas Bergfors for example... Renney also seems to be a great teacher, you always see him in the ear of a young player. Exactly what we need. Thats what I belive is the best.

Overall I think Renney are dooing a very good job with the rebuild. All kids at all levels are were they are supposed to be. Nobody are beeing rushed, I don't think there is anyone out there who should be given a shot but aren't, names like Pck and Baranka are mentioned, but IMO neither are good enough. I do belive strongly in Dubinsky, Korpikoski, Staal and Callahan -- and I am very confident that Renney will do a really good job with thoose four and I wouldn't be suprised at all if in 12 month all 4 were up here in NY contributing. Just like Kondratiev, Tyutin, Hollweg, Lundqvist, Moore, Prucha and Immonen now have been brought up, thoose four will too.

I also not only belive Renney are dooing a good job, I belive it could be a helluva lot worse. How many coaches would have settled with Cullen and Ward this summer for example? How many would have patience with Prucha and his slump?

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12-23-2006, 07:18 PM
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he contradicted himself YET again today.. the announcers said earlier how renney stated "we have to live w/. the good and bad of pock.." not in those exact words but something along those lines..

now answer me this how do we live w/. the good and bad when he sat on the shelf for the better part of a month and change.. now if he's going to stay in the lineup on a regular basis thats a different story.. until then i don't believe a word of what renney says about the young players on this team..

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12-23-2006, 07:30 PM
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Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickrOck View Post
he contradicted himself YET again today.. the announcers said earlier how renney stated "we have to live w/. the good and bad of pock.." not in those exact words but something along those lines..

now answer me this how do we live w/. the good and bad when he sat on the shelf for the better part of a month and change.. now if he's going to stay in the lineup on a regular basis thats a different story.. until then i don't believe a word of what renney says about the young players on this team..
Renney have very recently brought up 7 other rookies besides Pck.

Let Pck prove himself before we ask him to look for a apartment in NY.

Seriously, Pck are great in the attacking zone, he have very good speed and a good shot, I think he have potential. But he have not played great at any level, even on a good night in HFD he gets into a trouble defensivly.

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12-23-2006, 08:04 PM
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What he's saying...

is that due to an injury to Malik, there aren't any other options out there so he has no other choice but to play him. When Malik's back. we won't have to deal with the good and bad of Pock.

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12-23-2006, 08:16 PM
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Ola
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
is that due to an injury to Malik, there aren't any other options out there so he has no other choice but to play him. When Malik's back. we won't have to deal with the good and bad of Pock.
Thats true, but I am not sure that if I have any problems with Malik playing ahead of Pck.

Playing D in NY is not a easy task, a vet like Malik won't be ruined if he gets booed, for Pck it might be devastating.

Pck should get a good look, I don't care if its in HFD or NY, as long as we really investigate him. We defenitly could use better puckmovement from the blueline.

But Pck must also show that he can handle the defensive aspects.

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12-23-2006, 08:24 PM
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I have zero problems...

seeing Malik in there over Pock, and am not in any way much of a Pock fan. I was just explaining the 'contradiction'.

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12-23-2006, 08:27 PM
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Is it me...

or is it strange watching Hollweg get so much ice time on a second line, given his zero points so far this season?

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12-23-2006, 08:28 PM
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The Lightning...are swarming...

Time out anyone?

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12-23-2006, 09:45 PM
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There's always going to be a certain conflict of interest when it comes to playing youth. It benefits the team longterm but it can have an averse effect in the present. And since a coach is judged on wins and loses, the priority is winning.

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12-24-2006, 05:46 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
First of all, I would like to state that we are defenitly in a serious rebuild.

We only have 2 players tied up after next season.
These two points are unrelated. Not having players signed to long term deals in no way reflects a team's status with regard to a rebuild because:
1. Nothing is stoping the team from simply buying more Jagrs and Shanahans two years from now. The fact that the current old men on this team aren't signed for more than two years does not preclude the team from signing other old men in the future.

2. One would think a rebuilding team WOULD have players signed for more than two years: their young players.

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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
we are not risking the future in any way or form.
Well I'd argue that trading draft picks for people like Ozolinsh is risking the future in a way or form, but that aside, you're describing exactly the MO of the Philadelphia Flyers last season. Ed Snider came flat out and said the team would deal none of its future, and it didn't. Yet I think you'd have a tough time arguing the position that last year's Flyers were in "a serious rebuild." In fact I think you'd have a tough time arguing they were in any kind of rebuild at all, yet simply "protecting youth" seems to be enough to qualify for "serious rebuilding" status for some in NYC.

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Overall I think Renney are dooing a very good job with the rebuild.
They're not rebuilding but, meh, Renney's doing adequate work.

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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
How many coaches would have settled with Cullen and Ward this summer for example?
As versus what? Quitting their jobs because they didn't get the free agents they wanted? Calling their ownership cheap in the papers?

Let me ask you this, Ola: How many coaches DIDN'T settle for what they got this summer including those who didn't get a Brendan Shanahan for their teams?

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12-24-2006, 06:21 AM
  #11
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It seems as if having decided sometime during the off season that Ozo would be back they could not have signed much more than they did anyway as we made it into the low 40's with a cap figure that couldn't go past 44--so we can say that they did all they could as far as signing free agents--and on that hopefully Cullen begins to show a bit more because 3 more years of the same kind of play is going to have me wondering what the big deal was.

As far as the rebuild--there is no reason in the world why Dawes went back to Hartford so that Orr could play. Is Dawes ready? We'll find out when they give him a real chance to play instead of giving him 5-8 minutes on the bottom line. With the questions about Kaspar having lost a step--and Pock filling in for Malik and whether or not Pock can play the position well enough--it's as if the team forgot all about Baranka. There is no one else? They carried Baranka into the last week of training camp--give him a shot. He'll make mistakes? Sure he will--just like everybody else--including all the vets--around him.

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12-24-2006, 08:16 AM
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We only have B] How many would have patience with Prucha and his slump?[/QUOTE]

Prucha did not get much ice time since day one and he has no center to give him the puck. He plays with hall and cullen on the PP. Please even last year we saw renney's lack of patience with Prucha when he would put him on the 3rd or 4th line.

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12-24-2006, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
First of all, I would like to state that we are defenitly in a serious rebuild.
How many teams that are in a serious rebuild leave not one spot open for rookies to claim? How many of those teams send would-be rookies that have outpeformed the vets back to the AHL or juniors?
Quote:
It aren't talked about at all, not strange since quit frankly this place at times is nothing more then a pissing contest arena with people trying to prove their "points" and can't stand following a mediocre team.
Absolutely not true. If you truly have a rebuilding team, most would not care about wins or losses, just effort and progress. However, the criteria for this team has changed when the rebuilding was abandoned.
Quote:
Renney, from my perspective, defenitly seems like a great youth coach. He is very patient with the youth. Very concerned with dooing the right thing, bringing them up properly and giving them every possible chance to get somewere.
I am just the opposite. Renney's handling of any player outside of a veteran has been horrendous. He is not at all concerned with who can do it better, just who he thinks should do it better.
Quote:
I also not only belive Renney are dooing a good job, I belive it could be a helluva lot worse. How many coaches would have settled with Cullen and Ward this summer for example? How many would have patience with Prucha and his slump?
Patience by demoting him, reducing his ice time and scratching him? And I really do not know where you are going with the Cullen & Ward comment. Settled? How did he settle? How many coaches quit over free agent signings?

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Old
12-24-2006, 10:14 AM
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Okay, okay.... After last night's bull****, I'm a little hungover and having a hard time here. But, I think the argument has been made in this thread that- despite having no no rookies save Immo, who gets like 30 seconds of ice time a night- we are somehow most definitely in a rebuild. What?!?!?!??!?

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12-24-2006, 11:08 AM
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Good points Ola and I agree for the most part.

I didn't agree with you using Pock as a hyped prospect. After all he was signed, NEVER drafted. He was a known PROJECT. Yes hes got great tools but was never thought as a sure thing.

On the rebuild, despite people relaying how we are failing. IMO the rebuilding started the year Sather traded veterans for picks/prospects. Before that prospects were picked as trade bait and by a scouting corps of retired players who knew or cared little about getting young players to help the parent team.

Since that time of the great purge we have rebuilt our scouting department and shifted our thinking on young players actually eventually playing for the Rangers.

Despite our failures, we have NOT had a top draft pick (top 5) that could come in here quickly after being drafted and make an impact.

The impact young players will not make their mark for at least 5 years after their draft year. We have NOT even come close to that time since the great purge. I like you know I will be here in 5 years and as long as some of the young players are progressing I remain positive about our future.

Renney can only coach NHL ready players. We will have to wait for some of the young players to be NHL ready. Renney has a responsibility to win as well as develope some of the young palyers. Not sure if many people know that despite our long losing streak, we are at the top 1/3 of the NHL in points. Should we sacrifice that to play the Prucha's, Pocks, Dawes more ... I'm all for playing the young guys but they have to prove their ready.

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12-24-2006, 01:16 PM
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Like a rebuild takes time, so is Renney's time here limited, as one would think he is basically an interem coach. He wasn't the first person picked for the job, and he aqcuired it through the decline of others. He has not shown (Jack A** finalist or not), the ability to effectively coach this team, (last years fluke season shows this). All teams go through slumps, but this teams inconsistant play and lack of being prepaired on a nightly basis, is his fault, as is his innability to put together 4 lines and play them cosistantly during a game. Poor drafting for many years has hampered NY's effort to rebuild, as has Sather's way of trading away picks and prospects for old vets and rehab projects, and then spending time/money, and effort, playing /coaching and over-paying these fools, instead of nuturing the youth. To the day I die, I will be a Ranger fan, (hell I saw my one Cup), but for the life of me I will NEVER figure out, how this organization takes an AHL reject who's one skill is fighting, and tries to make a player/skater out of him, and at the same time takes a very young, hard playing, proven 30 goal scorer, and tries to make a 4th line bench sitter out of him. This is a rebuild?

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12-25-2006, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
As far as the rebuild--there is no reason in the world why Dawes went back to Hartford so that Orr could play. Is Dawes ready? We'll find out when they give him a real chance to play instead of giving him 5-8 minutes on the bottom line. With the questions about Kaspar having lost a step--and Pock filling in for Malik and whether or not Pock can play the position well enough--it's as if the team forgot all about Baranka. There is no one else? They carried Baranka into the last week of training camp--give him a shot. He'll make mistakes? Sure he will--just like everybody else--including all the vets--around him.
So Orr playing in Dawes position is the big fuzz? (in a minimal role on the 4th line)

Really, how big is that? What effect does it have in the end?

None none none.

Seriously I honestly think thats just a load of BS.

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Originally Posted by natureboy View Post
Prucha did not get much ice time since day one and he has no center to give him the puck. He plays with hall and cullen on the PP. Please even last year we saw renney's lack of patience with Prucha when he would put him on the 3rd or 4th line.
You mean that Prucha haven't played with Jagr?

Well to tell the truth he have, him Straka and Jagr and they sucked, remember?

Seriously, have you even watched the team this year? Prucha have played a ton but have been seriously snakebitten.

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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
How many teams that are in a serious rebuild leave not one spot open for rookies to claim? How many of those teams send would-be rookies that have outpeformed the vets back to the AHL or juniors?
TB its allways like that. You think one kid were great in camp and then ***** about the entire season.

No spots were left open or taken, the best made it. Who exactly agrees with YOU that Ivan Baranka were the best D in camp? Nobody. And even if he was, it don't matter squat, since he aren't among the top 6 D in this org. And that says allot, considering how our blueline looks. And playing him in the NHL won't make him better. Seriously it won't.

Kaspar are done, and don't tell me Renney haven't acted like it, its just proof of how far away Pck are from making a impact that he haven't pushed Kaspar off the roster yet.

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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
most would not care about wins or losses, just effort and progress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Okay, okay.... After last night's bull****, I'm a little hungover and having a hard time here. But, I think the argument has been made in this thread that- despite having no no rookies save Immo, who gets like 30 seconds of ice time a night- we are somehow most definitely in a rebuild. What?!?!?!??!?
TB, yeah so I see. We are a team built from scratch two years ago, thats a fact. Who exactly are we supposed to compete with, Buffalo?

Get real, thats a complete ****ing joke, it took 9 years to build the Sabres.

This is a rebuild, you just can't take loosing. Don't give me any crap about not playing kids thats really really really far from ever making it to the NHL as a pitty excuse. Because thats exactly what it is. Sickening. You see it on every fan board, in the papers, all over.

"We don't mind not putting the best possible team on the ice, as long as ALL kids play."

Its really idiot proof since no coach ever would do that, since you basically just ruins the kids, unless you have the budget of Pittsburgh and no choice. Yeah, NY can handle a rebuild, since this is HF my only question is, do you have a link? Nah I thought so, its impossible to find one on this board thats for sure...

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Originally Posted by XXX View Post
Here's an interesting quote from Zipay -

"But what this club still needs for Christmas--or whenever---is 60 minutes of hunger and sacrifice every game, a 1-through-4 d-man and a play-making/scoring center."


Hmm...sounds like something that's been discussed here ad nauseum.
This is exactly what I mean, did Renney not know this?

Yes, I defenitly belives that he does. But I also personally belive, that signing them last summer to long term expensive contracts, since that is what they all got, wouldn't be ideal for this club at this time.

Still, this is what Renney in the end gets the most blame for, the team not producing extremely well. A handful of pts over 500 aren't enough. Anything but the division title aren't enough, in a rebulding year...

We got 4 kids comming up next season, if Renney gets this much critisisim for not winning this season, how da heck can he be confident enough not to look for safer options next summer?

And yes, the kids you all scream for, Pck and Baranka and Co weren't ready this summer, they just aren't. Look at them play, in NY or HFD.


Last edited by Ola: 12-25-2006 at 07:52 PM.
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Old
12-25-2006, 07:46 PM
  #18
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Maybe the point is is that the kids need more seasoning at Hartford and therefore are not ready. Something has to happen though. These kind of games can not keep happening without something being done. The defense needs to be revamped in season. Many posters have commented on the fact that we have to many defensemen who play the same style. Immonen should be given a good shot at the number 2 center spot, at worst the number 3. Betts should center Ward and Cullen. Lines 2 and 3 need to be redone. Hall has been a big disappointment. Hossa has to go. Great penalty killer but nothing else.

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12-25-2006, 07:58 PM
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Maybe the point is is that the kids need more seasoning at Hartford and therefore are not ready. Something has to happen though. These kind of games can not keep happening without something being done. The defense needs to be revamped in season. Many posters have commented on the fact that we have to many defensemen who play the same style. Immonen should be given a good shot at the number 2 center spot, at worst the number 3. Betts should center Ward and Cullen. Lines 2 and 3 need to be redone. Hall has been a big disappointment. Hossa has to go. Great penalty killer but nothing else.
Changes needs to be made, and Renney are making them all the time, with the lineup, with calling players up, with sending players down.

Though don't tell me that we would be much higher in the standings if diffrent changes, then what Renney have made, would have been done. If anything we have more pts then what we should have if you look at the roster, and what else can you judge a coach by? Sombody tell me.

You just don't fix a blue line to division title standards if you have Rozival, Malik, Tyutin, Ward, Ozolinsh, Kaspar and Pck to work with.

You just don't fix the PP if its ran by JJ and you have Rozival, Rachunek, Pck, Cullen and Ozolinsh to work with.

You just don't get physical respect if your top 10 forwards are Jagr, Straka, Nylander, Shanahan, Cullen, Prucha, Immonen, Betts, Ward, Hall and Hossa.

Like everyone else, there are things I would have done diffrent then Renney, the only subject I would really argue that I am right and Tom Renney are wrong are the 5 on 3 PP unit though, I honestly belives Renney are wrong on that subject and I am right. Though on other subjects its just pure speculations, and most of them concern really small details that have nothing at all to do with the big picture, like Isbister ect.

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12-25-2006, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
First of all, I would like to state that we are defenitly in a serious rebuild.

We only have 2 players tied up after next season. The brass, Sather, Maloney and Renney could easily have made their jobs a helluva lot easier by signing a couple vet D's for example. Like Chara for example. They haven't.

It aren't talked about at all, not strange since quit frankly this place at times is nothing more then a pissing contest arena with people trying to prove their "points" and can't stand following a mediocre team. Not much reasonable discussion, unfortunatly. Though that if anything is a helluva important issue, we are not risking the future in any way or form. I know I am gooing to be here in 5 years, and for me thats extremely important, there is allot of pressure on Sather, Renney and Co. here in NY, and like I said, giving someone twice the dough Cullen is making and their jobs gets allot easier right now, but tougher down the line.

Thats something that matters. Still allot of people here are more concerned about extremely small details, like if Isbister gets 6 minutes on a 4th line.

Second, on Renney and the youth, allot of notions out there that really suprises me at this stage, after what we have seen here the last decade.

Just because a young player is hyped it doesn't mean its a sure thing that he is gooing to be a star. Take Tomas Pck for example, he may or may not make it some day. But he have allot of flaws too, I know that there were a big fuzz when he signed and he were supposed to be great, but how many times haven't we heard that before? I don't know were it comes from, are all prospects great in the NBA or MLB? The faith so many fans here have in the kids are a bit strange. And once in NY, their are no honeymoon either, look at Kondratiev, he were 3-4 steps ahead of Baranka and Pck and he had a tought time...

Check the threads from us fans who have seen Pck in HFD, I don't know if anyone of us ever have been all that impressed or without big concerns, he is a forward who are playing D, and are having allot of trouble defensivly in the AHL.

Its not strange that he haven't been given a free ride in NY.

Renney, from my perspective, defenitly seems like a great youth coach. He is very patient with the youth. Very concerned with dooing the right thing, bringing them up properly and giving them every possible chance to get somewere. There are so many examples of kids beeing rushed out there, and so extremely few examples of kids beeing rushed having success. I defenitly belives that Renney are on the right track here. Thats how NJD always have brought up their kids for example, see Niklas Bergfors for example... Renney also seems to be a great teacher, you always see him in the ear of a young player. Exactly what we need. Thats what I belive is the best.

Overall I think Renney are dooing a very good job with the rebuild. All kids at all levels are were they are supposed to be. Nobody are beeing rushed, I don't think there is anyone out there who should be given a shot but aren't, names like Pck and Baranka are mentioned, but IMO neither are good enough. I do belive strongly in Dubinsky, Korpikoski, Staal and Callahan -- and I am very confident that Renney will do a really good job with thoose four and I wouldn't be suprised at all if in 12 month all 4 were up here in NY contributing. Just like Kondratiev, Tyutin, Hollweg, Lundqvist, Moore, Prucha and Immonen now have been brought up, thoose four will too.

I also not only belive Renney are dooing a good job, I belive it could be a helluva lot worse. How many coaches would have settled with Cullen and Ward this summer for example? How many would have patience with Prucha and his slump?
I really appreciate this post. All too often, posters (including myself) sy pretty negative, pessimistic things. I contradict myself all the time, personally, but I lean more toward your perspective. I also believe this rebuild is legit and that Renney is a good coach for this team.

We do have a winning record. It just seems we got ahead of ourselves' with last season's instant success. But some people talk like they have all the answers.

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Old
12-25-2006, 10:32 PM
  #21
True Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Who exactly agrees with YOU that Ivan Baranka were the best D in camp? Nobody. And even if he was, it don't matter squat, since he aren't among the top 6 D in this org. And that says allot, considering how our blueline looks. And playing him in the NHL won't make him better. Seriously it won't.
I never stated that Baranka was the best defenseman in camp. I said that he had outperformed half of the current defensemen during camp. Given the shape oof this defense, why isn't he being a chance at playing? Are you trying to state that his level would be significantly below that of an Ozolinsh, pr Kasper, or Rachunek or Malik?
Quote:
Kaspar are done, and don't tell me Renney haven't acted like it, its just proof of how far away Pck are from making a impact that he haven't pushed Kaspar off the roster yet.
Or it's just proof that Renney will not trust a younger player, no matter what.
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TB, yeah so I see. We are a team built from scratch two years ago, thats a fact. Who exactly are we supposed to compete with, Buffalo?

Get real, thats a complete ****ing joke, it took 9 years to build the Sabres.
If your call yourself a playoff team, shouldn't you be a tad more consistent? And who is talking about how long it took to rebuild? Rebuilding teams do not make the type of moves that the Rangers have made. Those moves were not made with "rebuilding" in mind. Again I ask, how many rebuilding teams have left no room for rookies to make it?
Quote:
This is a rebuild, you just can't take loosing. Don't give me any crap about not playing kids thats really really really far from ever making it to the NHL as a pitty excuse. Because thats exactly what it is. Sickening. You see it on every fan board, in the papers, all over.
I can take loosing just fine. So too could most around here. If you are truly rebuilding, that is. I do not think that management is thinking of it that way. I believe that the thought is that there is a small window of time to with w/ Jagr. And while they may not be mortgaging the store yet, the actions of this organization have not been primarily concerned with a rebuild.
Quote:
"We don't mind not putting the best possible team on the ice, as long as ALL kids play."

Its really idiot proof since no coach ever would do that, since you basically just ruins the kids, unless you have the budget of Pittsburgh and no choice. Yeah, NY can handle a rebuild, since this is HF my only question is, do you have a link? Nah I thought so, its impossible to find one on this board thats for sure...
A link to what? I do not think that anyone lobbied for playing all kids.

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Old
12-26-2006, 01:30 AM
  #22
eco's bones
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The point is Ola that Dawes earned an opportunity to play and using him on a 4th line--playing musical chairs with Orr or him in and out of the lineup is/was ridiculous. Look around at the rosters of practically every team in the league but ours and you'll see rosters dotted with rookies and very young players. We've gone back to being in some respects an old and overpaid team.

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Old
12-26-2006, 03:06 AM
  #23
Esa 10
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
First of all, I would like to state that we are defenitly in a serious rebuild....
I think your definition of a "rebuild" is quite different from its common usage. Teams like Pittsburgh/Washington are generally cited when referring to a "rebuild." The Rangers are certainly NOT doing anything like that.

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Old
12-26-2006, 03:37 AM
  #24
nyr2k2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esa 10 View Post
I think your definition of a "rebuild" is quite different from its common usage. Teams like Pittsburgh/Washington are generally cited when referring to a "rebuild." The Rangers are certainly NOT doing anything like that.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with you here, Esa. My idea of a rebuild is playing kids ahead of youth, regardless of the talent level in some cases. You need to put your kids on the ice to see what you have with them, because frankly, the AHL doesn't provide the complete picture of a player's game that some people think it does.

My idea of a rebuild would have been Immo making the team from camp, without much of a question, and getting good ice time. Dawes and Jessiman (yes, Jessiman) would be getting plenty of minutes, seeing how they can handle the game at the NHL level. Baranka and Pock would be fixtures on the blue line, all season long. Korps, G. Moore, Dubinsky and the like would all have had looks by now and maybe would have played their way into increased roles. Montoya wouldn't be rotting behind Valiquette in Hartford.

Guys like Aaron Ward, Matt Cullen and Brad Isbister never would have been signed. Shanny wouldn't have been an option, either. Hell, maybe we even move Straka prior to the season and pick up some more prospects, or picks in this upcoming deep draft.

That, to me, is a true rebuild. And you know what? We'd suck. We'd suck this year, and probably next year, too. It would be hard to watch some nights. Yet at the same time, we'd be laying the foundation for the future, which would be bright, and filled with the prospects of a hard-working team that learned to be accountable and earn their minutes, with a goal of a T.B. or Carolina-like Cup run.

I really feel like our success last season ****ed us over as a franchise. It increased the pressure to win now, and clouded the judgment of the front office, and the vision of the fans. When you look at all the peripheral statistics (lets take a page from baseball, where numbers are often deceiving), there is no way we were as good as our record last season indicates. Unfortunately, rather than actually going into full rebuild mode, we half-assed things and tried to put platinum rims and a fancy paint job on a car whose chassis wasn't very sturdy. It worked fine for a while, but the inherent flaws invariably surfaced, and now we're stuck with a mish-mash of ****. It's too bad.

It's not too late though, for a true rebuild- though don't try to paint me as an alarmist who has abandoned ship after a losing streak. After last season, I realized we may have been a fluke, though I soon forgot all about it with the promise of a new season. I think the same can be said for management. With our current core, I don't see us contending for any Cups before Jagr retires. Rather than wait for the inevitable disappointment, let's start pawning off some of our valuable parts now. Stock up for the future, and hope that we find some people who know how to actually build a franchise.

Man, I'm so idealistic when I'm buzzing and exhausted. I guess the reality is that we'll try to again buy our success, and without a doubt fail miserably .

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Old
12-26-2006, 05:17 AM
  #25
Entrancemperium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with you here, Esa. My idea of a rebuild is playing kids ahead of youth, regardless of the talent level in some cases. You need to put your kids on the ice to see what you have with them, because frankly, the AHL doesn't provide the complete picture of a player's game that some people think it does.

My idea of a rebuild would have been Immo making the team from camp, without much of a question, and getting good ice time. Dawes and Jessiman (yes, Jessiman) would be getting plenty of minutes, seeing how they can handle the game at the NHL level. Baranka and Pock would be fixtures on the blue line, all season long. Korps, G. Moore, Dubinsky and the like would all have had looks by now and maybe would have played their way into increased roles. Montoya wouldn't be rotting behind Valiquette in Hartford.

Guys like Aaron Ward, Matt Cullen and Brad Isbister never would have been signed. Shanny wouldn't have been an option, either. Hell, maybe we even move Straka prior to the season and pick up some more prospects, or picks in this upcoming deep draft.

That, to me, is a true rebuild. And you know what? We'd suck. We'd suck this year, and probably next year, too. It would be hard to watch some nights. Yet at the same time, we'd be laying the foundation for the future, which would be bright, and filled with the prospects of a hard-working team that learned to be accountable and earn their minutes, with a goal of a T.B. or Carolina-like Cup run.

I really feel like our success last season ****ed us over as a franchise. It increased the pressure to win now, and clouded the judgment of the front office, and the vision of the fans. When you look at all the peripheral statistics (lets take a page from baseball, where numbers are often deceiving), there is no way we were as good as our record last season indicates. Unfortunately, rather than actually going into full rebuild mode, we half-assed things and tried to put platinum rims and a fancy paint job on a car whose chassis wasn't very sturdy. It worked fine for a while, but the inherent flaws invariably surfaced, and now we're stuck with a mish-mash of ****. It's too bad.

It's not too late though, for a true rebuild- though don't try to paint me as an alarmist who has abandoned ship after a losing streak. After last season, I realized we may have been a fluke, though I soon forgot all about it with the promise of a new season. I think the same can be said for management. With our current core, I don't see us contending for any Cups before Jagr retires. Rather than wait for the inevitable disappointment, let's start pawning off some of our valuable parts now. Stock up for the future, and hope that we find some people who know how to actually build a franchise.

Man, I'm so idealistic when I'm buzzing and exhausted. I guess the reality is that we'll try to again buy our success, and without a doubt fail miserably .


Awesome post that's what I want aswell and I think alot of others also want and the thing is we'd be ok with losing 'cause we are doing that anyway except now we'd have a reason to look forward and what's more is that we'd probably getting high draft picks and get that franchise centerman we desperately need or just a real firstline talent and that would benefit us much more than having these geezers taking up all the room. I love Jags and Shanny and you know what Straka has been a machine this year but in one to three years then what?

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