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Old
12-24-2006, 09:29 PM
  #51
Hackett
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Originally Posted by bayrider View Post
Sure Plekanec has cement hands, but when was the last time Kovalev scored a goal that wasn't on the PP? He's only scored 2 goals 5 on 5 (excluding an empty net goal) all season. Kovalev, Samsonov and Plekanec combined are cement hands. How many times this season have we seen him miss a great opportunity by hitting the post, shooting it wide, or just shooting right at the goalie? Pretty much every game
you're dead on

pleks is the one who has to play with these guys 5 on 5... he doesn't get PP time so his production is purely reflective of his linemates 5 on 5.

Plekanec is just a scapegoat.

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12-24-2006, 09:50 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
you're dead on

pleks is the one who has to play with these guys 5 on 5... he doesn't get PP time so his production is purely reflective of his linemates 5 on 5.

Plekanec is just a scapegoat.
???

Sorry ,, but Plekanec IS playing on the powerplays .

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12-24-2006, 10:02 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by MasterD View Post
he was a god damn rookie for god's sake... and so was Higgins, when he played with Koivu he had half a season under his belt
Plekanec is having now +- one and a half season under his belt . he's still unable to find the net .

But take care about this ; I agree that he was a very good rookie , because he was playing at the right place for him : he 's the perfect 3-4 th liner center . My point is only that he doesn't have what it takes for second line .

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12-24-2006, 10:53 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by antidot View Post
???

Sorry ,, but Plekanec IS playing on the powerplays .
with who?

kovalev, koivu, higgins, ryder, latendresse, samsonov, souray, markov, rivet, streit.

I've named 6 forwards and 4 d-men right there... so unless there's a 3rd PP unit....

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Old
12-24-2006, 11:32 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by antidot View Post
???

Sorry ,, but Plekanec IS playing on the powerplays .
Rarely. The most common second unit is Samsonov, Higgins and Latendresse.

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12-24-2006, 11:38 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by antidot View Post
Plekanec is having now +- one and a half season under his belt . he's still unable to find the net .

But take care about this ; I agree that he was a very good rookie , because he was playing at the right place for him : he 's the perfect 3-4 th liner center . My point is only that he doesn't have what it takes for second line .
Plekanec's got his limitations. One of those limitations is that he has a specific offensive style, and that style doesn't mesh with Kovalev's style.

Plekanec's going to score more off of transition offense than he will off of the cycle. And if he scores off the cycle, it's by out-working the opposition and using his speed; not his skill (which is not so bad, mind you, but it's his relentless work in conjunction with that decent skill that can get him points).

Kovalev's style is to slow the pace down off the rush. He also slows it down in the cycle, to probe the defenses.

Essentially, Plekanec and Kovalev work against eachother. That's not with any malice, of course, it's as simple as their styles not meshing all that well.

I think Plekanec could do well with Samsonov. Samsonov, too, is best when he's outskating and outhustling the opposition. Samsonov's even started winning battles on occasion. I think the two of them would be ideal with another hustler, quick skater on that line. I like the idea of Higgins with them, then plugging Kovalev next to Ryder and Koivu.

But I doubt we'll ever see this, and it's all speculation anyhow. The point is that Plekanec is, in my view, a top six forward, but he needs to be played to his strengths. That's not happening right now, so he's not looking in sync with his linemates. Simple as that.

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12-25-2006, 12:07 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
with who?

kovalev, koivu, higgins, ryder, latendresse, samsonov, souray, markov, rivet, streit.

I've named 6 forwards and 4 d-men right there... so unless there's a 3rd PP unit....
Latendresse has 58 minutes of PP this season
Plekanec is having 48 minutes .

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12-25-2006, 09:42 AM
  #58
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I think Pleks is a much better defensive player and Petrov was more offensive.

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12-25-2006, 10:21 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Plekanec's got his limitations. One of those limitations is that he has a specific offensive style, and that style doesn't mesh with Kovalev's style.

Plekanec's going to score more off of transition offense than he will off of the cycle. And if he scores off the cycle, it's by out-working the opposition and using his speed; not his skill (which is not so bad, mind you, but it's his relentless work in conjunction with that decent skill that can get him points).
good analyse !

The question is why , but why Carboneau is still playing him with Kovalev . It is a mystery for me ; why he never try Bonk on the second line ? I know that he completes Johnson and Perez very well , but i am sure that Plekanec would be also good with those two . At least , he can tries for few games .

If i would have one negative thing to say about Carbo , it 's the way he sticks to his line . He's the opposite coach of Julien , about the way he manages his line .

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12-25-2006, 10:45 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by antidot View Post
good analyse !

The question is why , but why Carboneau is still playing him with Kovalev . It is a mystery for me ; why he never try Bonk on the second line ? I know that he completes Johnson and Perez very well , but i am sure that Plekanec would be also good with those two . At least , he can tries for few games .

If i would have one negative thing to say about Carbo , it 's the way he sticks to his line . He's the opposite coach of Julien , about the way he manages his line .
I'd also like to see some more experiments, but I respect Carbonneau's philosophy and resolve to maintain that philosophy. I also think Montreal's had better chemistry and are far better in sync than I've seen them for a long time, so one has to believe Carbonneau's insistance on sticking with the same lines has something to do with that.

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12-25-2006, 11:27 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Plekanec's got his limitations. One of those limitations is that he has a specific offensive style, and that style doesn't mesh with Kovalev's style.

Plekanec's going to score more off of transition offense than he will off of the cycle. And if he scores off the cycle, it's by out-working the opposition and using his speed; not his skill (which is not so bad, mind you, but it's his relentless work in conjunction with that decent skill that can get him points).

Kovalev's style is to slow the pace down off the rush. He also slows it down in the cycle, to probe the defenses.

Essentially, Plekanec and Kovalev work against eachother. That's not with any malice, of course, it's as simple as their styles not meshing all that well.

I think Plekanec could do well with Samsonov. Samsonov, too, is best when he's outskating and outhustling the opposition. Samsonov's even started winning battles on occasion. I think the two of them would be ideal with another hustler, quick skater on that line. I like the idea of Higgins with them, then plugging Kovalev next to Ryder and Koivu.

But I doubt we'll ever see this, and it's all speculation anyhow. The point is that Plekanec is, in my view, a top six forward, but he needs to be played to his strengths. That's not happening right now, so he's not looking in sync with his linemates. Simple as that.
true, we can see that just by looking at how many times he goes 2 on 1 or 3 on 2 during PK.

true for the second point, one is all about speed and transition and the other one is all about slowing down the play.

true for the third point as well, I still cant believe how Plekanec, who's probably the smallest guy on the team, is the only one on his line that fight for pucks on the boards or goes in front of the net... we can see it, the very few times he's on the ice with stronger guys like Latendresse or Higgins, he does better offensively...

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12-25-2006, 12:41 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I'd also like to see some more experiments, but I respect Carbonneau's philosophy and resolve to maintain that philosophy. I also think Montreal's had better chemistry and are far better in sync than I've seen them for a long time, so one has to believe Carbonneau's insistance on sticking with the same lines has something to do with that.
I like that he doesn't change his line every games like Julien was doing , but i also would like him to change the second line's combination . We were a lot that didn't beleive in that line before the begining of the season , because the 3 players like to control the puck . It's time that Carbo realise it , and for 1-2 weeks the third line isn't effective like it was before , so it would be the perfect time to see a change .

Maybe Carbo sticks to Plekanec on the 2 nd , because they already have decide that they will trade Bonk at the deadline . That could explain why they give all the chances to Pleky , to connecte with Kovalev .

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12-25-2006, 12:52 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by antidot View Post
Latendresse has 58 minutes of PP this season
Plekanec is having 48 minutes .
I would like to see Latendresse getting more PP time . He's the perfect guy to be in front of the net . Latendresse is alone to play the game as he does . He's having a very good sens to find a room near the net , and is the complement of players like Kovalev , Koivu and Samsonov .

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12-25-2006, 01:03 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
I would like to see Latendresse getting more PP time . He's the perfect guy to be in front of the net . Latendresse is alone to play the game as he does . He's having a very good sens to find a room near the net , and is the complement of players like Kovalev , Koivu and Samsonov .
What, you think our PP isnt good enough as it is ?

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12-25-2006, 02:52 PM
  #65
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Would trading Pleks for someone like Steen make sense? TO prolly wouldnt make the trade as Steen will be the next Sundin. lol

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12-26-2006, 12:11 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
What, you think our PP isnt good enough as it is ?
i think it's good , but 100 % efficient would be more good !

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12-26-2006, 12:17 AM
  #67
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Would trading Pleks for someone like Steen make sense? TO prolly wouldnt make the trade as Steen will be the next Sundin. lol
With the injury of Peca , they will probably move to get help . I was thinking yesterday that Bonk would be a good choice for them , and would give us more cap space , if trade for draft choice(s ) .

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12-26-2006, 01:18 AM
  #68
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Plekanec will be a much more useful player than Petrov.

It's still too early to say whether he will be a solid second line center or will top out as a guy to take over from Bonk.

I'm surprised we haven't seen Bonk between Samsonov and Kovalev for a couple of games.

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12-26-2006, 01:25 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
With the injury of Peca , they will probably move to get help . I was thinking yesterday that Bonk would be a good choice for them , and would give us more cap space , if trade for draft choice(s ) .
Cap space to do what, exactly? Trading Bonk to Toronto is a terrible idea, but what do you propose we do with the extra ~1.4m of cap space? It would have to be something spectacular to be worth removing probably the most consistently good player on the team, and trading him to a team we'll face four more times.

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12-26-2006, 01:32 AM
  #70
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Cap space to do what, exactly? Trading Bonk to Toronto is a terrible idea, but what do you propose we do with the extra ~1.4m of cap space? It would have to be something spectacular to be worth removing probably the most consistently good player on the team, and trading him to a team we'll face four more times.
Its odd to see how many fans are now all over Bonk and before the season, all was wanting him out!

But I agree with you, if we don't resign him, I don't really care but now trading him for cap space (if we not make another trade right after for a great C its pretty useless) he's one of the best PKer of the team, can stand in front of net, he's not an offensive threat but he put his name on the scoresheet sometimes, pretty good in its own at 5v5 and stop the best liner opponents with success.

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12-26-2006, 01:47 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by CH Iggins View Post
Its odd to see how many fans are now all over Bonk and before the season, all was wanting him out!

But I agree with you, if we don't resign him, I don't really care but now trading him for cap space (if we not make another trade right after for a great C its pretty useless) he's one of the best PKer of the team, can stand in front of net, he's not an offensive threat but he put his name on the scoresheet sometimes, pretty good in its own at 5v5 and stop the best liner opponents with success.
Quite a few of the same posters who were calling Bonk useless this year are basically saying that of Plekanecs. Funny cause now they want to see him in between the Russians.

Some posters are also STILL bitter about the departing of Mike Ribeiro despite the fact that this team has been better without him.

I have no doubt Plekanec will get better. Ideally he may be a third line centre, but given opportunity he may be a good second line centre. I'd rather see how he responds to a shake up of lines, than basically writing him off.

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12-26-2006, 01:54 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Cap space to do what, exactly? Trading Bonk to Toronto is a terrible idea, but what do you propose we do with the extra ~1.4m of cap space? It would have to be something spectacular to be worth removing probably the most consistently good player on the team, and trading him to a team we'll face four more times.
Bonk is going to be a free agent . Is Gainey wants to resign him ? does Bonk want to come back here ? ; Gainey could start the negotiations with him as soon as next week ( if he think that he should signs him ) . But if he's to loose him at the end of the season , it could be better to make cap space to do a trade for an second center for the end of the season and the playoffs run .

Plekanec did a very good job last season as a 3 th center , and i suppose that it could be his spot next season , Lapierre centering the 4th line .

Another way is to trade both Bonk + another player + or with a draft choice , to get the famous second center we need . But i beleive that Gainey is just going to look for a temporary help ,to finish the season .

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12-26-2006, 01:54 AM
  #73
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Quite a few of the same posters who were calling Bonk useless this year are basically saying that of Plekanecs. Funny cause now they want to see him in between the Russians.

Some posters are also STILL bitter about the departing of Mike Ribeiro despite the fact that this team has been better without him.

I have no doubt Plekanec will get better. Ideally he may be a third line centre, but given opportunity he may be a good second line centre. I'd rather see how he responds to a shake up of lines, than basically writing him off.
I think people are just upset with the removal of Ribeiro because he's a better player than Plekanec. His on-ice contributions are greater than Plekanec's, but what we don't see are his off-ice contributions. I'm fine with the move so long as we can keep moving forward on-ice, but Plekanec isn't the long-term solution on the second line.

That being said, I think he's a great insurance policy should Bonk not re-sign with us. Plekanec should be able to slot into that role fairly easily. I'm also wary of changing the team up too much. I like what we're doing on-ice, and want to continue to see that for the rest of the season. Who knows what another player would do to the team.

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12-26-2006, 02:00 AM
  #74
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I think people are just upset with the removal of Ribeiro because he's a better player than Plekanec. His on-ice contributions are greater than Plekanec's, but what we don't see are his off-ice contributions. I'm fine with the move so long as we can keep moving forward on-ice, but Plekanec isn't the long-term solution on the second line.

That being said, I think he's a great insurance policy should Bonk not re-sign with us. Plekanec should be able to slot into that role fairly easily. I'm also wary of changing the team up too much. I like what we're doing on-ice, and want to continue to see that for the rest of the season. Who knows what another player would do to the team.
If you have a $ to spend come playoff time, put it on Plekanec... we already know what the other will do...

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12-26-2006, 02:14 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
Quite a few of the same posters who were calling Bonk useless this year are basically saying that of Plekanecs. Funny cause now they want to see him in between the Russians.

Some posters are also STILL bitter about the departing of Mike Ribeiro despite the fact that this team has been better without him.

I have no doubt Plekanec will get better. Ideally he may be a third line centre, but given opportunity he may be a good second line centre. I'd rather see how he responds to a shake up of lines, than basically writing him off.
Nash13 , the team is changing , the players are different than the previous seasons , some are better , some are less good , some will choose to continue their career somewhere else , some to resign here , etc .

Everything is moving , so i don't see why someone should have to be stick to a point of view . Anyway , what is the point to " decide " what other posters of the board are thinking ? Why don't you just tell us ,what YOU think about this talk ?

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