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Jagr Prosposal

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Old
12-01-2003, 01:43 PM
  #1
Volchenkov
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Jagr Prosposal

Not sure if Washington would be willing to do this, but I'm curious what the feedback will be, so here goes...

Alfredsson for Jagr and a swap of 1st round picks.

The sens upgrade their team talent-wise and get a chance at the ovechkin sweepstakes, while the Caps unload ALL of Jagr's salary and get a very good replacement. The caps have to take Curtis L in order to even out the salries for this season. Alternatively, the caps can take Havlat instead, but will have to pay the difference betwen Havlat and Alfie's salary for this season.

The sens end up taking on only an extra 3 million or so in salary per season if you assume they would have resigned Alfie. It hurts like hell to trade Alfie but it has a huge potential upside. If push came to shove I probably wouldn't do it as the risk is too large (I would do the Havlat deal though).

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12-01-2003, 01:48 PM
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I dont see Ottawa making this deal. They trade their captain and leader for a risk in Jagr.

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12-01-2003, 01:51 PM
  #3
Volchenkov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLeafsGo2003
I dont see Ottawa making this deal. They trade their captain and leader for a risk in Jagr.
At this point in time I think that Hossa is the true leader of the team.

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12-01-2003, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
At this point in time I think that Hossa is the true leader of the team.

True, Hossa is certainly the star of the team, but Alfie still has a very important leadership role on the team

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12-01-2003, 01:54 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Not sure if Washington would be willing to do this, but I'm curious what the feedback will be, so here goes...

Alfredsson for Jagr and a swap of 1st round picks.

The sens upgrade their team talent-wise and get a chance at the ovechkin sweepstakes, while the Caps unload ALL of Jagr's salary and get a very good replacement. The caps have to take Curtis L in order to even out the salries for this season. Alternatively, the caps can take Havlat instead, but will have to pay the difference betwen Havlat and Alfie's salary for this season.

The sens end up taking on only an extra 3 million or so in salary per season if you assume they would have resigned Alfie. It hurts like hell to trade Alfie but it has a huge potential upside. If push came to shove I probably wouldn't do it as the risk is too large (I would do the Havlat deal though).

What a perplexing offer.

The only way I could put my head around this was by looking at the team situation for WAS after each possibility. Say WSH continues to suck ass, and next year gets Ovechkin. It'd be one of the most talented teams in the league, but then again, WSH's problem right now isn't talent. Its heart, and in the future, being fiscally viable to live under the new CBA. With Jagr, it'd be tough as hell to do that, regardless of the laissez faire attitude he brings to the ice. If we get curtis L and Alfie, it helps us in 3 ways, stronger defense and a fantastic work ethic. Add to that the fact that Alfie is a darn good leader and he might be captain in a couple years. When you add in the sens draft pick which we'd probably still be able to draft a good defensemen with, the deal from the caps standpoint is a definite YES. No way that Ottawa does this though, unless they are more desperate than I think.

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12-01-2003, 01:59 PM
  #6
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Why would Ottawa do that? They trade their heart or their future in Havlat for Ovechkin and Jagr? Ovechkin is going to be awesome but what if Washington doesn't get the number 1 pick or the number 2 pick?

 
Old
12-01-2003, 02:13 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLeafsGo2003
I dont see Ottawa making this deal. They trade their captain and leader for a risk in Jagr.
You forget the only reason that Ottawa would ever consider doing this, the swap of draft picks for the chance to pursue Ovechkin.

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12-01-2003, 02:18 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
What a perplexing offer.

The only way I could put my head around this was by looking at the team situation for WAS after each possibility. Say WSH continues to suck ass, and next year gets Ovechkin. It'd be one of the most talented teams in the league, but then again, WSH's problem right now isn't talent. Its heart, and in the future, being fiscally viable to live under the new CBA. With Jagr, it'd be tough as hell to do that, regardless of the laissez faire attitude he brings to the ice. If we get curtis L and Alfie, it helps us in 3 ways, stronger defense and a fantastic work ethic. Add to that the fact that Alfie is a darn good leader and he might be captain in a couple years. When you add in the sens draft pick which we'd probably still be able to draft a good defensemen with, the deal from the caps standpoint is a definite YES. No way that Ottawa does this though, unless they are more desperate than I think.
Cool. I thought I would probably get 20 "your crazy there is no way in hell we'd risk giving up ovechkin". The truth is that it does make sense for the sens in two different respects:

1) They upgrade their talent immediately and for the future
2) Economically speaking they get another top young player who will remain cheap for a short while. As much as I think Melnyk will do his best to insure that this team succeeds - it is vital that they keep a steady stream of young talent coming in.

If Washington would do the Havlat deal, I'd do it without hesitation. With alfie there is always the question of loyalty and the fact that he's said many times he loves playing in Ottawa and wants to stay in Ottawa.

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12-01-2003, 02:21 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestonedkoala
Why would Ottawa do that? They trade their heart or their future in Havlat for Ovechkin and Jagr? Ovechkin is going to be awesome but what if Washington doesn't get the number 1 pick or the number 2 pick?
The future is now for the sens. Even if they don't get Ovechkin, they'll still be getting a damn good prospect (say a "spezza" instead of a "kovalchuk"). Jagr is a tremendous upgrade over Havlat and chemistry wise it would be a lateral move. If his salary is too much at the end of the season the sens will just have to not resign Alfie or something.

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12-01-2003, 02:37 PM
  #10
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I would definitely not do this deal with Havlat.

With Alfredsson and Lescychyn I'd consider it, but still probably pass unless I could talk you out of the #1. The way we're playing now, we very well could get Ovechkin. But that's a lot of "if's"...

If we continue to flounder in the cellar with regards to standings...

If we actually win the lottery pick...

It's hard to believe that we will do either of those things considering the amount of scoring talent we have. Yes our defense is atrocious, and yes Olie isn't playing well, but we have an abundance of offensive talent on this team. If they get hot, we'll likely play ourselves out of the Ovechkin sweepstakes.

Also, I have to say that while Jagr is a cancer in the locker room, the main reason why Teddy Logon wants to "trim" him is because he wants to get the team salary down to about $40 million. As long as the team continues to lose money, Teddy will seek to reach either a break-even point with regards to profitability. He's not going bankrupt, so the Caps can afford to wait for a good deal and not give him away for journeymen, 2nd tier prospects and or a couple draft picks like so many of the posters on this board seemed to be convinced of.

The reason I'm pointing this out is because we wouldn't really be trimming payroll with a trade like this. Also, it's debateable whether this trade would spark the team to a good enough run to get us into the playoffs. Basically that is the only thing that Teddy would be thinking about since the $ involved keeps payroll at the same level with Jagr or with Alfredsson/Lescychyn

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12-01-2003, 02:41 PM
  #11
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now how does Ottawa, in any way, pick up Jagr's contract??

this isn't just this year, or next year, but he's got 5 years remaining on a very bloated contract - and if the difference of that salary is only $3mill a year more than what Alfreddson would be getting, than you can bet that Alfreddson is not going to be re-signing with Ottawa next season!

Actually I don't see Alffy making that anywhere! Remember the CBA is due up, and he is heading into the UFA year, in the final season of the current CBA (the deal expires in September, but the UFA season starts in July) - and teams are going to be even more weary of giving up large $$ contracts to players without knowing if there is a cap to deal with, then they were last season.

Another thing is that the Caps are concerned about a possible salary cap, and one of the bigger reasons why they would want to move Jagr - wouldn't the Sens be concerned about it too?? would they take that risk to add Jagr and his $11mill/yr salary, if it meant they couldn't keep the rest of their core around??

And Ottawa's core is young and talented, and will continue to increase their earning potential with every passing contract.

This would be a deal that could really hurt the Sens franchise for the long term - and they aren't exactly the Rangers North either!!

I think it's so far fetched we'd never see it happen... Ottawa is still in the group of small to mid market teams in the NHL - they aren't the Leafs, Wings, or Rangers... adding an $11mill/yr player, on a multiyear deal will never happen there.

I do think however that the Caps would take the deal - especially if it invovled Havlat instead of Alfreddson... moving Jagr's contract is so difficult that dealing a top first rounder might be worth it (given that it's still small odds that they end up drafting 1st overall).

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12-01-2003, 02:42 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleHunter
I would definitely not do this deal with Havlat.

With Alfredsson and Lescychyn I'd consider it, but still probably pass unless I could talk you out of the #1. The way we're playing now, we very well could get Ovechkin. But that's a lot of "if's"...

If we continue to flounder in the cellar with regards to standings...

If we actually win the lottery pick...

It's hard to believe that we will do either of those things considering the amount of scoring talent we have. Yes our defense is atrocious, and yes Olie isn't playing well, but we have an abundance of offensive talent on this team. If they get hot, we'll likely play ourselves out of the Ovechkin sweepstakes.

Also, I have to say that while Jagr is a cancer in the locker room, the main reason why Teddy Logon wants to "trim" him is because he wants to get the team salary down to about $40 million. As long as the team continues to lose money, Teddy will seek to reach either a break-even point with regards to profitability. He's not going bankrupt, so the Caps can afford to wait for a good deal and not give him away for journeymen, 2nd tier prospects and or a couple draft picks like so many of the posters on this board seemed to be convinced of.

The reason I'm pointing this out is because we wouldn't really be trimming payroll with a trade like this. Also, it's debateable whether this trade would spark the team to a good enough run to get us into the playoffs. Basically that is the only thing that Teddy would be thinking about since the $ involved keeps payroll at the same level with Jagr or with Alfredsson/Lescychyn
You'd be saving about 3 mil. That is significant savings. I'm pleasantly surprised that was fans would consider the Alfie-Jagr deal. If Alfie wasn't such an integral part of this team emotionally I would do the deal.

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12-01-2003, 02:44 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
now how does Ottawa, in any way, pick up Jagr's contract??

this isn't just this year, or next year, but he's got 5 years remaining on a very bloated contract - and if the difference of that salary is only $3mill a year more than what Alfreddson would be getting, than you can bet that Alfreddson is not going to be re-signing with Ottawa next season!

Actually I don't see Alffy making that anywhere! Remember the CBA is due up, and he is heading into the UFA year, in the final season of the current CBA (the deal expires in September, but the UFA season starts in July) - and teams are going to be even more weary of giving up large $$ contracts to players without knowing if there is a cap to deal with, then they were last season.

Another thing is that the Caps are concerned about a possible salary cap, and one of the bigger reasons why they would want to move Jagr - wouldn't the Sens be concerned about it too?? would they take that risk to add Jagr and his $11mill/yr salary, if it meant they couldn't keep the rest of their core around??

And Ottawa's core is young and talented, and will continue to increase their earning potential with every passing contract.

This would be a deal that could really hurt the Sens franchise for the long term - and they aren't exactly the Rangers North either!!

I think it's so far fetched we'd never see it happen... Ottawa is still in the group of small to mid market teams in the NHL - they aren't the Leafs, Wings, or Rangers... adding an $11mill/yr player, on a multiyear deal will never happen there.

I do think however that the Caps would take the deal - especially if it invovled Havlat instead of Alfreddson... moving Jagr's contract is so difficult that dealing a top first rounder might be worth it (given that it's still small odds that they end up drafting 1st overall).
Alfie is making 6 mil already, so the difference between their two salaries is about 5 mil. Considering that alfie will probably cost 6-7 mil next season, the difference this season isn't so high, while the difference next season could be more manageable if say washington picks up 2 mil a year. If they are only adding about 3 mil in net payroll per year - its not such a huge salary cap hit.

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12-01-2003, 03:27 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Alfie is making 6 mil already, so the difference between their two salaries is about 5 mil. Considering that alfie will probably cost 6-7 mil next season, the difference this season isn't so high, while the difference next season could be more manageable if say washington picks up 2 mil a year. If they are only adding about 3 mil in net payroll per year - its not such a huge salary cap hit.
it becomes a bigger and bigger cap hit though as years go by, and Jagr is still making $11mill a year.

in 3 years Jagr's $11mill salary will be against a payroll that will have guys like Spezza, Havlat, and their young defense all up for new contracts (and many others)... they won't be able to keep everyone.

even if Alfie makes $7mill next year, they'd be adding $4 mill in net payroll - but more important than that is that right now they can manage it better by giving Alfie a 1 or 2 year deal... not stuck for 4 more seasons after this year on a $11mill contract.

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12-01-2003, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by st_roland
What a perplexing offer.

The only way I could put my head around this was by looking at the team situation for WAS after each possibility. Say WSH continues to suck ass, and next year gets Ovechkin. It'd be one of the most talented teams in the league, but then again, WSH's problem right now isn't talent. Its heart
Have you really looked at Washington's roster this year? How can you say their problem is not talent? Look at the roster and the number of none NHL players on this team!!

Defense: Gruden(ahl), Berry(ahl), Kwiatkowski(ahl), Doig(marginal NHL at best), Eminger(19 year old not ready for the NHL just yet, ahl). That's 5 of the 7 defensemen.

Forwards: Pettinger(rookie), Gordon(19 year old rookie-ahl), Peat(ahl),
Battaglia(ahl), Sutherby(ahl-would be farmed if the caps had any options), Willsie(ahl), Semin(19 year old not ready yet/europe), Ciernik(ahl), Miller(marginal nhl). Semin and Ciernik on the 2nd line, Miller and Sutherby on the 3rd line and Pettinger-Gordon-Peat on the 4th line in the last Capitals game. Zubrus and Grier are the only legit NHL players on 3 of the 4 Caps lines.

How can you say the Caps problem is not talent!!! The Capitals are Lang, Jagr, Bondra, Zubrus, Grier, Gonchar, and Witt, 7 NHL skaters, and 11 minor leaguers in front of Olie Kolzig every night. They look more like a preseason split squad roster than they look like an NHL team.

Lang is 1 point off the league lead in scoring. Lang, Jagr and Gonchar are in the top 10 in scoring. Bondra is in the top 10 in goals. Gonchar leads all defensemen in scoring by a mile. He has 33% more points than the 2nd high scoring defenseman.

You can blame the Capitals stars if you want to, but the facts are that the Caps have an All star NHL power play on an AHL team. or had you not noticed that yet?

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12-01-2003, 04:20 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
it becomes a bigger and bigger cap hit though as years go by, and Jagr is still making $11mill a year.

in 3 years Jagr's $11mill salary will be against a payroll that will have guys like Spezza, Havlat, and their young defense all up for new contracts (and many others)... they won't be able to keep everyone.

even if Alfie makes $7mill next year, they'd be adding $4 mill in net payroll - but more important than that is that right now they can manage it better by giving Alfie a 1 or 2 year deal... not stuck for 4 more seasons after this year on a $11mill contract.
I don't think 4 mil is such a huge deal, but i guess that's where we disagree.

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12-01-2003, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd
Forwards: Pettinger(rookie), Gordon(19 year old rookie-ahl), Peat(ahl),
Battaglia(ahl), Sutherby(ahl-would be farmed if the caps had any options), Willsie(ahl), Semin(19 year old not ready yet/europe), Ciernik(ahl), Miller(marginal nhl). Semin and Ciernik on the 2nd line, Miller and Sutherby on the 3rd line and Pettinger-Gordon-Peat on the 4th line in the last Capitals game. Zubrus and Grier are the only legit NHL players on 3 of the 4 Caps lines.
I'd argue that Battaglia is an NHL player and not AHL.. he's potted 20 goals in the NHL and is still fairly young Other than that though, it appears fairly dismal in Capital land..

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12-01-2003, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Cerebral
I'd argue that Battaglia is an NHL player and not AHL.. he's potted 20 goals in the NHL and is still fairly young Other than that though, it appears fairly dismal in Capital land..
When was the last time you saw bates battaglia play? He did have 20 goals once. the year carolina went to the cup finals. in the year 106 nhl games since then he has 6 goals. whatever he once had he has lost, completely.

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12-01-2003, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by txpd
When was the last time you saw bates battaglia play? He did have 20 goals once. the year carolina went to the cup finals. in the year 106 nhl games since then he has 6 goals. whatever he once had he has lost, completely.
I like the players being swapped but the potential of losing a top 3 pick is not worth it.

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12-01-2003, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volchenkov
Not sure if Washington would be willing to do this, but I'm curious what the feedback will be, so here goes...

Alfredsson for Jagr and a swap of 1st round picks.
Are you serious? Ted Leonis would personally carry Jagr on his back from DC over the border if he could get that deal. He rids himself of the second worse contract in the league (behind Yashin's), he rids his lockeroom of an apathetic, moody "star", and he gets back a solid character and performer (and a respectable contract) in return.

Sens would really be playing with team chemistry if they made that move. For that and many other reason$, they wouldn't, I'd bet.

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12-01-2003, 06:17 PM
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LOL. This whole thing is ridiculous. Ottawa can't pay Jaromir Jagr.
Christ, they had to take up a collection and defer money just to pay Smolinski and Varada.

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12-01-2003, 06:24 PM
  #22
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Originally Posted by Volchenkov
I don't think 4 mil is such a huge deal, but i guess that's where we disagree.
The point is the Sens can walk away from Alfie and buy someone in the more owner friendly CBA structure next year, but they would not be able to walk away from Jagr's guaranteed 55 million or whatever is left on his contract.

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12-01-2003, 06:24 PM
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Risky. But if they got Ovechkin and then had Jagr. Holy ****. What a team.

Also, if Jagr were playing for a serious contender with a chance to win another Cup, I bet he might restructure his contract. More likely to restructure it in Ottawa to win than in Washington or New York to lose. He may seem like a heartless ***** at times, but he still wants to win I bet.

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12-01-2003, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JDB3939
Risky. But if they got Ovechkin and then had Jagr. Holy ****. What a team.

Also, if Jagr were playing for a serious contender with a chance to win another Cup, I bet he might restructure his contract. More likely to restructure it in Ottawa to win than in Washington or New York to lose. He may seem like a heartless ***** at times, but he still wants to win I bet.
I don't think he'd take less money. He doesn't seem the type, and from what I've heard about his stock market endevours he likes money.

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12-01-2003, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
I don't think he'd take less money. He doesn't seem the type, and from what I've heard about his stock market endevours he likes money.
Very true. But it could happen. You never know.

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