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Old
12-27-2006, 12:40 PM
  #26
Maineice11
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I like the idea of everything that was said in the original post....just one little tweak instead of Messier, Richter, and graves as coaches, We put in Messier, Graves, and Keenan...I don't know what Richter is up to know, he was taking classes at Yale last I knew. Messier is a natural leader, but a little direction in coaching by Keenan, they always had good chemistry together. Graves could also use a little mentoring on coaching from Keenan as well they all have had great chemistry together....and ask Richter to come be the goaltending coach.

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12-27-2006, 12:51 PM
  #27
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Keenan is the Jack Kevorkian of the coaching world. Any GM who hires him is willingly bringing in the man who will one way or another end his own career. Either he alienates all the players and the don't respond and everyone gets fired, or he has great success, claims it was all his own doing and wants complete control. The only reason he didn't blow it here is because he left town too early. I would bet my house that Keenan would have you longing for Renney and Sather back.

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12-27-2006, 01:09 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
Keenan is the Jack Kevorkian of the coaching world. Any GM who hires him is willingly bringing in the man who will one way or another end his own career. Either he alienates all the players and the don't respond and everyone gets fired, or he has great success, claims it was all his own doing and wants complete control. The only reason he didn't blow it here is because he left town too early. I would bet my house that Keenan would have you longing for Renney and Sather back.
This is logical and correct. But we're talking about Glen Sather here, the guy Dolan will NEVER fire. Since Sather is 'coach-proof', he could have hired Keenan or Nolan and not have had to worry about him getting between Dolan and Sather.

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12-27-2006, 01:09 PM
  #29
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I want to preface my comments by saying that I love the Rangers and miss the energy we used to have with this team. We need more character players with toughness like Ortmeyer and Hollweg who give 110% every shift. I also include Prucha in this group but he needs to get his confidence back in Hartford by scoring goals and maybe come back for the playoffs if we make it.
I hate to say it but we have too many whimpy players on this team right now.

A few ideas to make the Rangers a better team:

Coaching:
Fire Renney now - hire Messier (coach), Graves (assistant), Richter (assistant) if they have coaching aspirations. Either Messier or Graves would make a great coach. Imagine the energy in MSG with Messier and Graves back - that's what the Rangers need to get the Garden rockin again. Renney brings no passion to this team at all and we deserve passion in the Garden again. He reminds me of an accountant who is coaching a hockey team - way too analytical and calm for me. We need passion to get this team going.

Offense:
Sign Jason Allison for the remainder of the season as a playmaking center for Shanahan and Callahan on the wings. (he scored a point a game last year even though everyone says he is too slow for the new nhl. He is a gifted playmaker no matter how slow he is - sign him).
Everyone knows Shanahan is a natural goal scorer and Callahan is on fire in Hartford (could be this year's Prucha if given the chance).
Send Prucha to Hartford to find his game and get his confidence back because he is not helping the team or his value.
Recall isbister (big body, good skater, some toughness, some offense) and put him on the 3rd line with Cullen (3rd line player with speed, energy and some offense) and Betts (solid 3rd. line checking center with some offense).
Send Orr and hossa to Hartford because they should be playing in the AHL not the NHL.
I would keep Jason Ward as an alternate because he is a whimp with no offense but has versatility.
Isbister is a big body with decent speed and ability and I like the 4th line of Orts - Hollweg - Hall.

Offensive lines below:

Straka - Nylander - Jagr (best line in NHL)
Shanahan - Allison - Callahan (great potential)
Cullen - Betts - Isbister (checking line, strong skaters, some offense).
Ortmeyer - Hollweg - Hall (I love this line - energy & tough)
Jason Ward (alternate - versatile player).

Defense:
Our defense is really bad.
I would sign Leetch for the rest of the season and if he plays well resign him next year. I think coming back to NY would rejuvinate him and he would play really well for a few years.
I would send Kasper, Malik and/or Rachunek to Hartford or waive them for cap room. I don't know what can realistically be done with these guys via the salary cap or trades but I can't stand them. Rachunek has started to score a bit but I don't think he will get any better and does have trade value right now.
I would rather go with Pock, Biranka or Girardi from Hartford or seek a trade for a guy in the mold of Barrett Jackman.
We really need toughness on this defense like a Jeff Beukaboom or nastiness like Ulf Samuelson. We have whimps! When Aaron Ward is your toughest guy on defense you have a big problem.


Defensive Lines: (Jackman or Brewer from St. Louis would be nice but Jovanovski would be ideal - too expensive - I hate the salary cap). We'll will probably have to settle for the lines below with or without Leetch.

Leetch - Roszival
Tyutin - Ward
pock - Rachunek
Biranka, Girardi?

Goaltending:

I would trade Weeks who has value for a tough defensman and bring up Montoya to backup Lundqvist. Montoya was a number 1 pick so let's give him a shot when resting Lundqvist.

Lundqvist - starter
Montoya - Backup

Last thought:

I really think the Rangers should wear the white jerseys at home and the blue on the road like they have for the past 80+ years and the 94 cup. I don't care if the trend in the league is to wear dark jersey at home. I equate the Rangers to the Yankees with all of the tradition and you would never see the Yankees wearing the road uniform at home. I know it's minor but that's my opinion.
Ehh, I like some of the moves, others not so much. Bringing in guys like Allison and Leetch might make us a little better this season, but it isn't really addressing the longterm problems the team is facing. Adding aging veterans to a team of aging veterans doesn't do a lot to help the future of the franchise. Unless you think those guys will help us win a championship this year, I see no reason to go with them over guys like Immo and any of the Hartford D, who may actually contribute down the road.

I nearly choked when I saw the "send down Prucha" part. Why? The kid gives it his all every night, brings energy and disipline, and if you play him in a proper role he'll pop in 25 goals a season. Give him more ice time, not less.

I like the concept of doing whatever possible to rid ourselves of Kaspar and Malik. I'd like to hold on to Rozsival, he may be overpaid but I think he's been solid again this year. I've seen Girardi play enough to know he's no NHL defenseman. Same goes for Pock- switch the kid back to the wing, because he has little clue how to play the D position. Jovo is great, but I doubt we'll be contending anytime soon so I'd rather make a move on a younger guy or go for draft picks.

I'd also stay away from bringing in The Golden Boys to run the ship. I'd like to bring in more established coaches. I also have acknowledged that the '94 season was more than a decade ago, and that magic won't be returning anytime soon.

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12-27-2006, 01:13 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Wow, do you actually even know which position either of these players play? Dubinsky is a center, who almost made the Rangers out of camp. But, the Rangers wanted him to get development time at Hartford. He projects as a 2nd line center, with the outside possibility of being 1st line center IF he completely develops. Maloney has referred to him, along with Korpikoski, as the best prospect the Ranger have in Hartford. He started slowly, but has played very well recently, and MIGHT warrrant a call up to get a shot at the 2nd line center spot, before the Rangers attempt a deal for a 2nd line center.

Callahan, OTOH, projects to be a 3rd line winger. That perception might be changing, but most observers see him as an energy type winger with some scoring ability on the NHL level, but a third liner (a quality one at that), at best. The Rangers are not going to ask Callahan to be the 2nd line center. They have hopes Dubinsky will, possibly as early as next year.

As for Hall, he came to the Rangers billed as a 3rd line RW with the ability to play on the PP. So far. he's been disappointing. By putting him with to offensive minded players like Prucha and Immonen, you might unlock his scoring ability, which, so far, has been dormant. It's nothing more than a temporary solution, to see if you can get Hall going. If not, then you give Callahan a shot on that line.

And, after reading your initial post, I wouldn't be criticizing anyone's thinking ability if I were you.
First of all I know Dubinsky is a center pal.
He is not playing well enough to be called up to play and that is why Immonen is playing right now.
Hall is a 4th line player at best.

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12-27-2006, 01:18 PM
  #31
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I agree with Allison would be a good Signing righ now for the 2nd line and give Shannahan some offensive Fire Power on the 2nd line....

But I would cut Hall and Put Immonen as the 4th line center, because he is our best faceoff guy and he is a good 2 way player and Immonen has played very well

Straka Nylander Jagr - Line 1
Prucha Allison Shanahan - Line 2 (offensive power on the 2nd line)
Cullen Betts Ward - Line 3
Hollweg Immonen Ortmeyer - Line 4 Good defensive unit

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12-27-2006, 01:19 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by kdslocum View Post
Absolutly
1-Inconsistent goaltending - correct.
2-Jagr not dominating - #2 in scoring in NHL.
3-Bad penalties - coaching.
4-No depth - Correct.
5-No centers beyond Nylander - sign Allison.
6-Players regressing instead of progressing - coaching.
7-Lack of that hard work/lunchpale mentality that the team thrived on last season. - coaching.
8-Not a top pair defender on the team. - correct.
9-All the scoring is done by one line. - sign Allison call up Callahan.

#'s - 3,6,7 all coaching issues.
Jagr not dominating - his line has 135 points and he is #2 in scoring.
Sign Allison and you potentially solve #'s 5,9

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12-27-2006, 01:24 PM
  #33
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I agree with Allison would be a good Signing righ now for the 2nd line and give Shannahan some offensive Fire Power on the 2nd line....

But I would cut Hall and Put Immonen as the 4th line center, because he is our best faceoff guy and he is a good 2 way player and Immonen has played very well

Straka Nylander Jagr - Line 1
Prucha Allison Shanahan - Line 2 (offensive power on the 2nd line)
Cullen Betts Ward - Line 3
Hollweg Immonen Ortmeyer - Line 4 Good defensive unit
I will go with those lines.
I agree that Hall is a not a good player.
Immonen seems solid as a defensive forward.
I don't like ward because he gets tossed around all of the time.
I love Prucha but I do think he needs to get his confidence back whether it's Hartford or more playing time on a good line.

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12-27-2006, 01:25 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Maineice11 View Post
I like the idea of everything that was said in the original post....just one little tweak instead of Messier, Richter, and graves as coaches, We put in Messier, Graves, and Keenan...I don't know what Richter is up to know, he was taking classes at Yale last I knew. Messier is a natural leader, but a little direction in coaching by Keenan, they always had good chemistry together. Graves could also use a little mentoring on coaching from Keenan as well they all have had great chemistry together....and ask Richter to come be the goaltending coach.
Interesting, but I don't know if Keenan would take a diminished roll.

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12-27-2006, 01:31 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Ehh, I like some of the moves, others not so much. Bringing in guys like Allison and Leetch might make us a little better this season, but it isn't really addressing the longterm problems the team is facing. Adding aging veterans to a team of aging veterans doesn't do a lot to help the future of the franchise. Unless you think those guys will help us win a championship this year, I see no reason to go with them over guys like Immo and any of the Hartford D, who may actually contribute down the road.

I nearly choked when I saw the "send down Prucha" part. Why? The kid gives it his all every night, brings energy and disipline, and if you play him in a proper role he'll pop in 25 goals a season. Give him more ice time, not less.

I like the concept of doing whatever possible to rid ourselves of Kaspar and Malik. I'd like to hold on to Rozsival, he may be overpaid but I think he's been solid again this year. I've seen Girardi play enough to know he's no NHL defenseman. Same goes for Pock- switch the kid back to the wing, because he has little clue how to play the D position. Jovo is great, but I doubt we'll be contending anytime soon so I'd rather make a move on a younger guy or go for draft picks.

I'd also stay away from bringing in The Golden Boys to run the ship. I'd like to bring in more established coaches. I also have acknowledged that the '94 season was more than a decade ago, and that magic won't be returning anytime soon.
My thinking on Prucha is that he would get his confidence back by scoring in Hartford with a lot less pressure for now.
I love Prucha and think he has more character and grit than most players on the team but it doesn't help to put him on the 4th line. Maybe put him with shanahan and Allison.
I think Shanahan can play at least 2 more years at the sam level and Allison is only 31. Add youth with Callahan or Prucha and you have a solid line for a few years at least.
Leetch I agtree is questionable but I am so bothered with our defense right now.

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12-27-2006, 01:39 PM
  #36
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You replaced Prucha with Gallahan and Hossa with Isbister. You added Allison. Is that the improvement? At best it is more of the same.
Prucha is not scoring no matter who he plays with - give Callahan a chance like we gave Prucha a chance last year - let's see if he gives the team a spark.
Isbister has been a 10-20 goal scorer in the NHL over the years - Hossa has less ability.
Your telling me that Jason Allison is not an improvement compared to Immonen or Cullen. Look at the numbers when healthy on Allison and you will see he is a very talented player whenever and wherever he played. There is no disputing his numbers when he is in the game. The guy is only 31 years old not 50.

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12-27-2006, 05:28 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Renney's not going anywhere. So the complete revision of the coaching staff is not going to happen. Now, what I could see happen is at the end of the year, if things continue in the manner they are, perhaps Renney either moves back to the front office, or maybe he swaps jobs with Schoenfeld, and takes over in Hartford.

As for player personnel, until the the two necessary trades are made which will correct the unbalanced lineup - a trade for a 2nd line center and a top 4 d-man - I'm getting close to the point where i'd welcome the call up of Dubinsky for a trial run on the 2nd line next to Shanahan. The 3rd line should be Prucha-Immonen-Hall, with Hossa and Hollweg rotating at 4th line LW for Betts and Ward. As for the D, waive Kaspar, play Pock with Ward on the 3rd D pairing, and move Rachunek next to Malik once he returns. The top D pairing at this point should be Tyutin and Rozsival, since they happen to be the best two D-men we have. See how that goes before giving Baranka a shot. Oh, and if Hall can't lift his game playing next to two offensive minded players like Prucha and Immonen, sit him and play Callahan on that line.
That plan makes a lot of sense, but I seriously doubt it will happen, even in the short run. Renney can't seem to stop playing Betts 15 minutes a night (it's been rare that Immonen even gets as much even strength time as Betts), I think we're stuck with him getting 3rd line minutes unless something changes dramatically with the team. I also doubt that Renney et al are comfortable with the idea of having two rookies playing center--that may have been OK last year (although Betts technically wasn't a rookie), but there is a whole different mindset within the organization and they have their eyes firmly on the concept that they are good enough to win a Stanley Cup. I suspect that we'll be seeing a veteran forward brought in sooner, rather than later, to address the "problems" on the 2nd line. But, that's neither here nor there right now, your lineup would use the assets currently in the organization much mroe efficiently than they have been used up to now.

As for defense, I do think we are seeing Kaspar losing his job as the 6th defenseman as soon as Malik returns. I don't think he will be waived right now (unless they need to free up cap space), if only because a team looking to win a Stanley Cup (remember that's the goal the organization has) needs a spare veteran defenseman on the roster for the playoffs. Also, while your defensive pairings make a lot of sense, I would be shocked if Roszival wasn't reunited with Malik soon after he returns.

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12-27-2006, 05:58 PM
  #38
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That plan makes a lot of sense, but I seriously doubt it will happen, even in the short run. Renney can't seem to stop playing Betts 15 minutes a night (it's been rare that Immonen even gets as much even strength time as Betts), I think we're stuck with him getting 3rd line minutes unless something changes dramatically with the team. I also doubt that Renney et al are comfortable with the idea of having two rookies playing center--that may have been OK last year (although Betts technically wasn't a rookie), but there is a whole different mindset within the organization and they have their eyes firmly on the concept that they are good enough to win a Stanley Cup. I suspect that we'll be seeing a veteran forward brought in sooner, rather than later, to address the "problems" on the 2nd line. But, that's neither here nor there right now, your lineup would use the assets currently in the organization much mroe efficiently than they have been used up to now.

As for defense, I do think we are seeing Kaspar losing his job as the 6th defenseman as soon as Malik returns. I don't think he will be waived right now (unless they need to free up cap space), if only because a team looking to win a Stanley Cup (remember that's the goal the organization has) needs a spare veteran defenseman on the roster for the playoffs. Also, while your defensive pairings make a lot of sense, I would be shocked if Roszival wasn't reunited with Malik soon after he returns.
I agree that it's unlikely that Renney would play two rookie centers. The more likely scenario would be a trade or two, and plenty of rumors are flying. I'd rather Dubinsky get the full year in Hartford, just to keep developing has game. A spot run for a couple of games wouldn't hurt him, and might serve to remind him what he's busting his hump for in the minors. And, you're probably right about Malik, since it's a pairing that Renney feels comfortable using. But, from my view, Rozsival has actually looked better this year without Malik. He seems more assertive and physical. He and Tyutin are the most capable D-men of logging big minutes, something neither of their partners, Malik and Ward respectively, are not capable of doing at this point.

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12-27-2006, 06:09 PM
  #39
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If I could have one lineup it would have to be the one below:

I would say get rid of Betts,Hall and Hossa.

Straka - Nylander - Jagr
Prucha - Immmonen/Dubinsky- Shanahan
Cullen - Dubinsky/ Immmonen- Ward
Ortmeyer - Callahan-Hollweg

I actually always liked Isbister for some reason but being 29 ,Im not quick to want to give him a spot over a 19-23/24/25 year old, but wouldnt mind a spot for him. I actually have mixed comments and im not sure exactly.

Orr as an extra if he deciides to do what he is here for, cause NYR is very weak.

They lack in scoring with this lineup, but I still see Immonen and Dubs coming around quickly and think could start picking up some points, IMO atleast.

As for Defense I would remove Malik and Rachunek, do wahtever with them.Sign Leetchie and acquire Cullimore ( toughness ).Make sure NYR can fit Staal into the lineup next year, thats all im really interested in. But for the remainder of the season I could deal with these pairings on defense, as for fowards I would be happy with this lineup for a couple more seasons

Leetch -Ward
Tyutin - Kasparitis
Cullimore-Roszival


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12-27-2006, 06:24 PM
  #40
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What's the point of even suggesting getting rid of Betts? The organization is short of centerman and he's the closest thing we have to a pure defensive center. He's not the main problem. And your changes on defense also really don't make sense--especially when Kaspar (who's really not playing well at all) is still there over two players who will be here and playing for the forseeable future (especially Malik who has a contract that makes him untradeable given his play this year).

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12-27-2006, 06:32 PM
  #41
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I agree that it's unlikely that Renney would play two rookie centers. The more likely scenario would be a trade or two, and plenty of rumors are flying. I'd rather Dubinsky get the full year in Hartford, just to keep developing has game. A spot run for a couple of games wouldn't hurt him, and might serve to remind him what he's busting his hump for in the minors. And, you're probably right about Malik, since it's a pairing that Renney feels comfortable using. But, from my view, Rozsival has actually looked better this year without Malik. He seems more assertive and physical. He and Tyutin are the most capable D-men of logging big minutes, something neither of their partners, Malik and Ward respectively, are not capable of doing at this point.
I don't disagree with your comments about the defense (or about Dubinsky), I just don't see Renney tearing up his blueprint for the pairs when Malik comes back. I see him going back to the status quo with Rachuncek and Pck as the 3rd pair--until Pck is replaced via a trade.

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12-27-2006, 06:45 PM
  #42
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I don't particularly like the Rachunek-Pock pairing. I think they'd each be best served with a stay-at-home type, since they both are eager to create and/or join rushes up ice.

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12-27-2006, 07:17 PM
  #43
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It doesn't really matter what we think...Renney's the one who has to make the jump and change the pairs. In any case, I don't think Pck has secured spot in the lineup for the rest of the season--having play with Rachuncek is only a stopgap until a trade is made.

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12-27-2006, 07:24 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
So Renney is the problem with this team? God Poti is really being missed around this board this season.

Here are the reason(s) the Rangers suck:

1-Inconsistent goaltending
2-Jagr not dominating
3-Bad penalties
4-No depth
5-No centers beyond Nylander
6-Players regressing instead of progressing
7-Lack of that hard work/lunchpale mentality that the team thrived on last season.
8-Not a top pair defender on the team.
9-All the scoring is done by one line.

Bottom line is the coaching is not the problem with this team.
Bingo! Pesonally I think once a 2nd line center is acquired an awful lot of the other problems will be solved. We have far too many players not being used properly. The defense has too much redundancy of similar type of defenders. Once again last night served as an example of how a less then swift or agile defender can be effective (witt). Why we have to have the 2nd comings of Arnie Brown, Rod Seiling and Willie Huber is beyond my comprehension.

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12-27-2006, 08:56 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
So Renney is the problem with this team? God Poti is really being missed around this board this season.

Here are the reason(s) the Rangers suck:

1-Inconsistent goaltending
2-Jagr not dominating
3-Bad penalties
4-No depth
5-No centers beyond Nylander
6-Players regressing instead of progressing
7-Lack of that hard work/lunchpale mentality that the team thrived on last season.
8-Not a top pair defender on the team.
9-All the scoring is done by one line.

Bottom line is the coaching is not the problem with this team.


I agree with almost all of this except the center comment. Immonen looks pretty good. Betts has always been underrated. They don't have the right guys playing with him which speaks volumes. Cullen was brought in to play out of position. He'd be a good No.3.

Why not reunite:

Cullen-Immonen-Shanahan

They were good during the win streak before Cullen's knee sprain. Then when he returns, Renney doesn't put them back together. Why not?

If not then try:

Straka-Nylander-Jagr
Prucha-Immonen-Shanahan
Hossa-Cullen-Ward
Hollweg-Betts-Hall

That might be more cohesive. It puts the centers in the spots where they belong. When Ort returns, stick him in place of Hall on that fourth line.


Truth be told, there's no reason Ryan Callahan and Nigel Dawes shouldn't be up with this team. The third and fourth lines have killed this team all year. Those guys have potential and deserve another look.

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12-27-2006, 10:49 PM
  #46
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Sorry but nothing about Jason Allison intrigues me.

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12-28-2006, 03:26 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Prucha25Graves988 View Post
If I could have one lineup it would have to be the one below:

I would say get rid of Betts,Hall and Hossa.

Straka - Nylander - Jagr
Prucha - Immmonen/Dubinsky- Shanahan
Cullen - Dubinsky/ Immmonen- Ward
Ortmeyer - Callahan-Hollweg

I actually always liked Isbister for some reason but being 29 ,Im not quick to want to give him a spot over a 19-23/24/25 year old, but wouldnt mind a spot for him. I actually have mixed comments and im not sure exactly.

Orr as an extra if he deciides to do what he is here for, cause NYR is very weak.

They lack in scoring with this lineup, but I still see Immonen and Dubs coming around quickly and think could start picking up some points, IMO atleast.

As for Defense I would remove Malik and Rachunek, do wahtever with them.Sign Leetchie and acquire Cullimore ( toughness ).Make sure NYR can fit Staal into the lineup next year, thats all im really interested in. But for the remainder of the season I could deal with these pairings on defense, as for fowards I would be happy with this lineup for a couple more seasons

Leetch -Ward
Tyutin - Kasparitis
Cullimore-Roszival
I don't know about the rest of you but I like Betts, he seems alot quicker this year, sure the production ain't there but if Renney were to match lines he might excel as a thorn in the side of oposing top players Ward/Hollweg-Betts-Ortmeyer could be a shutdown line if Renney buys a clue......

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12-28-2006, 09:15 AM
  #48
traderjake*
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
Sorry but nothing about Jason Allison intrigues me.
Jason Allison stats from 1993-2006:

Games - 552
Goals - 154
Assists - 331
Points - 485

How can you not be intrigued with a player with these stats?
We need a playmaker on the 2nd line.
Immonen and Dubinsky are not what we need at this time.
Shanahan needs a veteran playmaker and so does Prucha or Callahan - whoever is on the other wing.
You pay the guy for 1/2 a season without giving up any talent and if he plays well you resign him.
In my view he is definately worth a gamble especially because of his stats and he is only 31 years old.

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12-28-2006, 09:18 AM
  #49
traderjake*
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Originally Posted by Entrancemperium View Post
I don't know about the rest of you but I like Betts, he seems alot quicker this year, sure the production ain't there but if Renney were to match lines he might excel as a thorn in the side of oposing top players Ward/Hollweg-Betts-Ortmeyer could be a shutdown line if Renney buys a clue......
I like betts also and I don't know why anyone would consider getting rid of him.
Immonen is not impressive enough to have him anyone.

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12-28-2006, 09:21 AM
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traderjake*
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Originally Posted by Entrancemperium View Post
I don't know about the rest of you but I like Betts, he seems alot quicker this year, sure the production ain't there but if Renney were to match lines he might excel as a thorn in the side of oposing top players Ward/Hollweg-Betts-Ortmeyer could be a shutdown line if Renney buys a clue......
Dubinsky hasn't proven himself at the AHL level yet. Immonen is not the playmaker we need with Shanahan.
Jason Allison fits the spot for a few years at least.

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