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Kane or Gagner

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Old
12-30-2006, 12:36 PM
  #51
Alberta Yote
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Originally Posted by FearTheFlyers View Post
I agree.

A centre is just what we need.
Kane has been playing wing in the WJC. Is he a natural centre?

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12-30-2006, 12:43 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by FearTheFlyers View Post
Thank you for your explanation.

I think the things that I would say that Gagner has an advantage in over Kane is that he reacts quicker to the play and translates that into certainly what seems like a better on ice vision. Kane seems to need longer on the puck to make plays than Gagner, for whom it seems almost instinctive.

The physical advantages Kane has may be a result of the age gap.
Against superior opposition Gagner has not reacted quicker to the play; just the opposite; Kane has the puck more than any other player on the ice; that's a sign of his skill.

As for the age thing - not relevant. Nine months from now Sam Gagner won't be able to skate like Kane can right now; five years from now he won't skate like Kane can right now. Kane quite possibly is the most skilled skater at this year's WJC versus 19-year-olds, and quite possibly the most skilled player period.

As McKenzie and McGuire finally admitted today, Kane is going top five and may even go first overall. Frankly I think he may end up bring the top pick. Gagner - I like five or six players more at this point.

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Old
12-30-2006, 12:48 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AY View Post
Kane has been playing wing in the WJC. Is he a natural centre?

He's listed as an RW everywhere I've checked.

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Old
12-30-2006, 12:49 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by doctordark View Post
He's listed as an RW everywhere I've checked.
And coincidentally, the Coyotes could use an elite offensive right winger to play with Mueller or Hanzal down the road a few years.

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Old
12-30-2006, 12:59 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AY View Post
Kane has been playing wing in the WJC. Is he a natural centre?
I believe he's played Centre for the Knights.

They play Gagner-Kane-Kostitsyn at times.

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Old
12-30-2006, 01:01 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
Against superior opposition Gagner has not reacted quicker to the play; just the opposite; Kane has the puck more than any other player on the ice; that's a sign of his skill.

As for the age thing - not relevant. Nine months from now Sam Gagner won't be able to skate like Kane can right now; five years from now he won't skate like Kane can right now. Kane quite possibly is the most skilled skater at this year's WJC versus 19-year-olds, and quite possibly the most skilled player period.

As McKenzie and McGuire finally admitted today, Kane is going top five and may even go first overall. Frankly I think he may end up bring the top pick. Gagner - I like five or six players more at this point.
Kane has certainly outshone Gagner and all other prospects at this tournament.

I guess it comes down to how highly you value this tournament when ranking players. I've heard everything from no importance to extreme importance.

I'd be interested in knowing how highly you value it.

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12-30-2006, 01:25 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by FearTheFlyers View Post
I agree.

A centre is just what we need.
Everytime I have seen Kane play he has been on the wing. If he listed as a center I guess that means he can play both. Hopefully that versatility can be translated to the NHL a la Gagne.

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12-30-2006, 01:28 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Frank Nitty View Post
Everytime I have seen Kane play he has been on the wing. If he listed as a center I guess that means he can play both. Hopefully that versatility can be translated to the NHL a la Gagne.
True. He is actually listed as a RW on the OHL website also. Definitely has played some centre though.

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Old
12-30-2006, 03:26 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by FearTheFlyers View Post
I believe he's played Centre for the Knights.

They play Gagner-Kane-Kostitsyn at times.
Gagner has been centering Kane all year.

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Old
12-30-2006, 03:33 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turnbuckle View Post
Against superior opposition Gagner has not reacted quicker to the play; just the opposite; Kane has the puck more than any other player on the ice; that's a sign of his skill.

As for the age thing - not relevant. Nine months from now Sam Gagner won't be able to skate like Kane can right now; five years from now he won't skate like Kane can right now. Kane quite possibly is the most skilled skater at this year's WJC versus 19-year-olds, and quite possibly the most skilled player period.

As McKenzie and McGuire finally admitted today, Kane is going top five and may even go first overall. Frankly I think he may end up bring the top pick. Gagner - I like five or six players more at this point.

For a scout, kinda surprised you throw out the age argument. Do you really think Kane would have played like he has at this time last year? Nope. He does have an advantage since he is the oldest draft eligable prospect. That's just the way it is. We can debate who is better at this tourney after Gagner plays next year.

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Old
12-30-2006, 04:01 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by RUSqueelin View Post
For a scout, kinda surprised you throw out the age argument. Do you really think Kane would have played like he has at this time last year? Nope. He does have an advantage since he is the oldest draft eligable prospect. That's just the way it is. We can debate who is better at this tourney after Gagner plays next year.

That's a lot of hypotheticals. The bottomline is, although Kane is nine months older than Gagner, he's still the second youngest player on the U.S. roster. That hasn't stopped him from exerting his influence on the games and being the most dangerous American forward. Gagner simply hasn't stepped up, and you can't penalize Kane for that.

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Old
12-30-2006, 04:10 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger View Post
That's a lot of hypotheticals. The bottomline is, although Kane is nine months older than Gagner, he's still the second youngest player on the U.S. roster. That hasn't stopped him from exerting his influence on the games and being the most dangerous American forward. Gagner simply hasn't stepped up, and you can't penalize Kane for that.
I'm not penalizing kane,i think he's great. I don't think Gagner should be penalized. He's looking just as good as Thornton and Nash did at the same age. I'm just trying to use common sense.

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Old
12-30-2006, 05:08 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSqueelin View Post
For a scout, kinda surprised you throw out the age argument. Do you really think Kane would have played like he has at this time last year? Nope. He does have an advantage since he is the oldest draft eligable prospect. That's just the way it is. We can debate who is better at this tourney after Gagner plays next year.
Where did I say I was throwing out the age factor? My point was that I don't think Gagner in nine months time will be a better player than Kane is today. That's not throwing out the age factor, that's utilizing it.

There's not a better all-around skater in this year's draft with the possible exceptions of Katic. As was mentioned by Dale Hunter, his lateral movement is as good as you'll ever see at the junior level. Nine months from now Gagner won't be a better skater than Kane is right now, nor will he be in 5 years.

At the end of the day, a player with Kane's skating and puck skills will be picked in the top five without question IMO in this draft. Gagner I'm not as sure about; there are at least six players I like better at this time. Still makes him a helluva prospect.

You can't penalize Kane for being a late '88 - NHL scouts were shrewd enough not to penalize Eric Staal in 2003, Kessel in 2006, etc....I can't see them suddenly changing their mind on Kane. Fact is he's played with predominantly 89's all his life, yet when he's pitted against guys up to 23 months older he's always dominated.

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Old
12-30-2006, 05:22 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FearTheFlyers View Post
Kane has certainly outshone Gagner and all other prospects at this tournament.

I guess it comes down to how highly you value this tournament when ranking players. I've heard everything from no importance to extreme importance.

I'd be interested in knowing how highly you value it.
This tourney's enough to vault EJ from top 5 pick to consensus #1, and to help precipitate Kessel's fall in the rankings last year after - ironic, since it also boosted him to the top of his draft class the year before.

It's not the be-all and end-all, but it has a significant bearing on where a player is chosen at the draft, and is a great barometer of how well a kid can adapt to a higher level of competition.

Like many here, I don't have the opportunity to watch prospects extensively in the junior ranks, and the WJC's are often my first exposure to some top young players, particularly those on the other side of the pond. That said, I try to take this series with a grain of salt, knowing that you can't judge a player completely based on one two-week event.

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Old
12-30-2006, 06:19 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FearTheFlyers View Post
I agree.

A centre is just what we need.
What they need is to draft the best player available not out of need.

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Old
12-30-2006, 07:23 PM
  #66
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Being from London i've seen Kane and Gagner all season long and i'll add my 2 cents in.

Gagner got off to an incredible start in the OHL and was leading Kane by 10-15 points early on but Kane has picked up his play significantly the past 2 months and now leads Gagner (by 5 points I think)... that just shows you how fast Kane has grown this year.

I remember in October or November some people didn't even have Kane in the first round, most as a mid to late first round pick. I know he has mad skill, but to put him in the top 3 or 5 to me is a little premature. If he keeps tearing up the OHL the last half the season and has a great playoffs, then i'd put him top 3 or 5 but not quite yet.

Right now i'd say Kane has the higher potential but Gagner is a safer pick. Kane reminds me a lot of Schremp, only a little faster.

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Old
12-30-2006, 08:32 PM
  #67
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I'll say something about kane,it's not often a guy in his draft eligible year can assert himself offensively in this tournament like he's doing so far.You can say yeah it's against Germany or a weak Slovak team but it does'nt matter because precious few guys his age do even that in their draft year at this thing.They tend to have varying amounts of success that fall between complete non-entity to modest contributor.

Kane has forced the U.S coaches to look to him as a go to guy by his play and his obvious ability to make plays despite his age and inexperience and that does'nt happen every day over here at what essentially is mostly a 19 year old dominated tournament.


It's impressive.He's a very skilled player with a high offensive I.Q.

Scouts take note!!! I'm sure they have.


Last edited by espo*: 12-30-2006 at 08:41 PM.
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