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Old
12-28-2006, 11:48 AM
  #1
Slats432
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AHL affiliate

News? Not.

What a pathetic situation for a storied franchise to be in. If I was Bryanbryoil I would phone and tear a strip off Laforge and Lowe for ****ing up my favourite prospect.

Even if our scouts WERE good enough, we couldn't properly develop our kids anyway.

P.S. Guy, if you have any news, let me know.

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12-28-2006, 11:55 AM
  #2
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As much as I think highly of the Oilers organization, this situation with an AHL team is ridiculus, and it seems the progress on getting a team is very slow. Although Ive heard Jason Gregor on the TEAM1260 saying that the Oilers are hoping the Penguins will stay in Pittsburgh, because Kansas City has that brand new arena and if they cant get an NHL team right away they will go for the next best thing the AHL. The Oilers then will probably go after them hard.

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12-28-2006, 12:53 PM
  #3
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Was keeping our AHL franchise here just not an option or something? Why did the Roadrunners cease to exist?

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12-28-2006, 12:57 PM
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I'm getting pretty annoyed about this no AHL thing as well. It's already the new year and we haven't heard anything about a new team. The Avs just got a new AHL team so it can be done fairly quickly, so why is ours taking 3 years?

I will be VERY unhappy if the Oilers don't have an AHL team next year. VERY.

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12-28-2006, 01:02 PM
  #5
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it would be nice if they'd make the new Cleveland AHL team their affiliate...it's there for the taking and they'd be close to me to go and see every now and then

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12-28-2006, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWC11 View Post
it would be nice if they'd make the new Cleveland AHL team their affiliate...it's there for the taking and they'd be close to me to go and see every now and then
Cleveland has been signed already SWC11

Colorado is the affiliate.

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Old
12-28-2006, 03:03 PM
  #7
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Here's a helping hand for the Oilers

Since the Oilers brass have their thumb up their ***** and are waiting for a sugar daddy to drop in their laps and support their AHL team, I will supply a short list of cities for them to look into:

As mentioned Kansas City may be an option. If they want an NHL team they should try and show support for an AHL team first. There's an idea for NHL HQ.

Cincinnati
Green Bay
Baltimore
Indianapolis
Charolette
Memphis
Seattle
Portland
San Francisco
San Diego
Jacksonville
Oakland
Sacramento
Stockton

Windsor, not my first choice and too far away as a time line, 2008/9 I believe I heard.

Although, some of the above maybe ECHL or CHL related even WHL relatated are possible sites.

My first choice. Stockton. They seem to love the players we have there. 6600 for attendence isn't shabby either considering it's ECHL. My guess is they are talking to the owner about buying the AHL rights and keeping our players there. It does seem like a great move all around. But, the wishy washy attitude of the Oilers about actually paying to develop their own talent is bush league.

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12-28-2006, 03:09 PM
  #8
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I'm still waiting to see the evidence that these shared affiliations have actually hurt the Oilers.

Stoll, MAB, Greene, Pouliot, Jacques and Torres all played in the minors for the Oilers as they shared an affiliate.

This volume of players is bigger in both quantity and quality than anything the Oilers developed in the previous 10 years of having a single AHL affiliate that they controlled.

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12-28-2006, 03:28 PM
  #9
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DB I am mostly wanting a team so we have a place to put all our kids. With all the guys in NA we currently have, + the Europe kids, we need a team to see them all.

More split affiliation means that we won't see most of our kids from Europe.

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Old
12-28-2006, 03:43 PM
  #10
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Next year is unfortunately the year where we're really going to feel the pain of not having our own affiliate. I'm actually okay this season with the situation (although having Dubnyk in the ECHL sucks) but we need a regular starting spot for Dubnyk next year. Likewise, it would be nice to bring over a few guys like Hrabal, Umicevic and Almtorp but that will be extremely difficult to do without a roster spot to hand them.

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Old
12-28-2006, 04:35 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
I'm still waiting to see the evidence that these shared affiliations have actually hurt the Oilers.

Stoll, MAB, Greene, Pouliot, Jacques and Torres all played in the minors for the Oilers as they shared an affiliate.

This volume of players is bigger in both quantity and quality than anything the Oilers developed in the previous 10 years of having a single AHL affiliate that they controlled.
Well wtih Stoll and Torres it was a 50/50 affiliate and Lowe kind of said they were more in control of that team.

But overall it is hard to say. Goulet was not getting games in, JDD was not the year before, Syvret and others were rotating in and out of the line up as Hamilton had anywhere from 8 to 10 D on the roster etc... Statsny played out of position etc...

At least with WBS we get to keep a good core of guys together and playing together. I like that better than the no more than 1 to 3 guys per team.

I think a true split affliation with an even say in things is totally fine but I personally think scattering players across a whole bunch of teams is not a good thing.


EDIT - We are told Stockton draws huge crowds for ECHL team. I wonder if there is any interest on either side to converting Stockton into an AHL team?

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12-28-2006, 04:42 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilerdiehard View Post
But overall it is hard to say. Goulet was not getting games in,
Is Goulet good enough to warrant AHL icetime right now (he has 15 points in 22 games in the ECHL)?

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JDD was not the year before,
JDD also wasn't getting games in when the Oilers were running the Road Runners out of Edmonton. Maybe he just wasn't playing well enough in either season to deserve more games.

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Syvret and others were rotating in and out of the line up as Hamilton had anywhere from 8 to 10 D on the roster etc... Statsny played out of position etc...
Syvret was in way more than he was out considering he got 62 games in the AHL and another 10 in the NHL last season (so basically 72 games out of 80).

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12-28-2006, 04:44 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
I'm still waiting to see the evidence that these shared affiliations have actually hurt the Oilers.

Stoll, MAB, Greene, Pouliot, Jacques and Torres all played in the minors for the Oilers as they shared an affiliate.

This volume of players is bigger in both quantity and quality than anything the Oilers developed in the previous 10 years of having a single AHL affiliate that they controlled.
How can you determine how much better Schremp, Goulet, JDD or Dubnyk would be if we had our own affiliate?

Personally, IMO, Pouliot hasn't developed properly or well, and maybe, just maybe, he would be a solid contributing member of the Oilers by now.

Jacques has looked terrible. Bergeron has been the HF Board whipping boy all season (Although I have been meaning to mention that he has really been good the last 10 games or so)

Matt Greene played a whopping 26 games in the system with Iowa....one could say he didn't really need any time in the AHL.

Torres has been Mr. Inconsistency for his whole career, and only played 11 games in a split affilliate. The other season he played was the lockout when we had our own. (Stoll did play one whole year with the Bulldogs, so aside from one year, the same thing.)

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Old
12-29-2006, 10:36 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
I'm still waiting to see the evidence that these shared affiliations have actually hurt the Oilers.

Stoll, MAB, Greene, Pouliot, Jacques and Torres all played in the minors for the Oilers as they shared an affiliate.

This volume of players is bigger in both quantity and quality than anything the Oilers developed in the previous 10 years of having a single AHL affiliate that they controlled.
To be fair, Stoll, Bergy, and Torres were on a true split affiiation and we had our coach in place.

Greene spent half a season maybe and was called up before whe was ready. A trend for the Oilers. Pouliot and Jacques should also be in the AHL playing regularly. They proved they can play in the AHL now they have to prove they can dominate there, then come up.

There's the point of it.

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Old
12-29-2006, 11:05 AM
  #15
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Is Goulet good enough to warrant AHL icetime right now (he has 15 points in 22 games in the ECHL)?
It has to do with him becoming a better player, not how many points he's putting up. The only way for a player to get better, is to play against better opposition. The opposition he's facing in the ECHL isn't nearly as good as what he'd be facing in the AHL, thus, he isn't going to develop at the same rate.

He's playing well, and could definately hold up in the AHL. If we had our own team, he'd probably be a second line player, getting 2nd unit powerplay time, and facing much better oposition than he's currently up against.

Not to mention, guys like McDonald and Paukovich would probably have turned pro (McDonald for sure), and probably one or two european prospects as well.

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Old
12-29-2006, 11:27 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
I'm still waiting to see the evidence that these shared affiliations have actually hurt the Oilers.

Stoll, MAB, Greene, Pouliot, Jacques and Torres all played in the minors for the Oilers as they shared an affiliate.

This volume of players is bigger in both quantity and quality than anything the Oilers developed in the previous 10 years of having a single AHL affiliate that they controlled.
True, but it's much easier when you have an entire club in which to work your players through. You can teach them your system from the ground-up and grandfather in the concepts that the big guys in Edmonton institute.

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12-29-2006, 12:15 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
I'm still waiting to see the evidence that these shared affiliations have actually hurt the Oilers.

Stoll, MAB, Greene, Pouliot, Jacques and Torres all played in the minors for the Oilers as they shared an affiliate.

This volume of players is bigger in both quantity and quality than anything the Oilers developed in the previous 10 years of having a single AHL affiliate that they controlled.
Maybe you're onto something. Perhaps the AHL will be contracting to 15 teams in short order as the entire NHL sees the light and decides that it is better to split affiliations. Is it possible that the player development issues from the previous time period were because of something else and you might be comparing apples to oranges, before we assume you've discovered the secret to prime hockey player development?

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12-29-2006, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilerdynasty View Post
To be fair, Stoll, Bergy, and Torres were on a true split affiiation and we had our coach in place.
And the funny thing is, the bulldogs that year had an all Montreal first line. When the Oilers acquired Torres, he was put on the 4th line.

Quote:
Greene spent half a season maybe and was called up before whe was ready.
Does that have anything to do with the split affiliation? Would Greene have been called up before he was ready if the Oilers had their own affiliate? Greene was playing pretty big minutes and doing exactly what the Oilers wanted... I see no evidence that he was called up too early because of the split affiliation.

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A trend for the Oilers.Pouliot and Jacques should also be in the AHL playing regularly. They proved they can play in the AHL now they have to prove they can dominate there, then come up.
I still fail to see how this is because of the the Oilers not having their own affiliate. The Oilers ran into injury troubles which is why Pouliot and Jacques were in the lineup at the same time. It has nothing to do with a split affiliation.

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There's the point of it.
What point was that again? Bringing players up too early has very little to do with the split affiliation.

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12-29-2006, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekneek View Post
Maybe you're onto something. Perhaps the AHL will be contracting to 15 teams in short order as the entire NHL sees the light and decides that it is better to split affiliations. Is it possible that the player development issues from the previous time period were because of something else and you might be comparing apples to oranges, before we assume you've discovered the secret to prime hockey player development?
It's possible.

And is it not possible that because you don't have to worry about the 10 or so players who play for your AHL team who won't make the NHL that it won't affect your players in a positive manner?

just curious.

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12-29-2006, 11:14 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by Messier View Post
News? Not.

What a pathetic situation for a storied franchise to be in. If I was Bryanbryoil I would phone and tear a strip off Laforge and Lowe for ****ing up my favourite prospect.

Even if our scouts WERE good enough, we couldn't properly develop our kids anyway.

P.S. Guy, if you have any news, let me know.
I wasn't sure if this was you sincerily meaning this, or if you were just taking a pot-shot at me. I'll take it as the former. It has been a rough road having many talking smack because Schremp hasn't come close to my expectations, but it's even more frustrating because I'll be listening to the game and many times he's getting 11th forward minutes (despite putting up respectable points at ES and a respectable +/-). It frustrates me because obviously the kid can't contribute while he's on the bench. There's no doubt in my mind that if he were playing 15-20 minutes a game like he would if he were on our AHL team, or an evenly split team, he'd have much better stats and his confidence wouldn't be taking so many hits. I've always looked at the AHL as a developmental league. It seems like that isn't as prominent of a belief as it once was. Many talk about Pouliot getting so much ice-time in WBS, well Pouliot already had a full AHL season under his belt, and he was only adequate at ES. maybe his ES game would've been better and his individual skills would be sharper if he was coached by a coaching staff that was paid in large part to DEVELOP him and our other prospects. Anyhow, what can you do??? What happens if Schremp gets fed up with Richards and demands a trade because he doesn't like the direction his career is going in??? Would it be worth losing a blue-chip talent like Robbie because we treat AHL team ownership like the plague??? That said, we were more interested in developing Tyler Moss than JDD when we had the Roadrunners in town, so who knows *** this team is thinking???

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12-29-2006, 11:24 PM
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No "news" on this but the latest I have is sounding more like:

At best, a true split for next year is likely. There appears to not be a partner out there to take on the responsibility of running the franchise while the Oilers supply the players.

The list of locations that was offered up in post #7 - I think it's safe to say that anything west of the Rocky Mountains is out as it would be too far from the rest of the league, it's a bus league.

The Oilers have told me they want a site west of the Great Lakes so places like Green Bay, Indianapolis, KC, etc make sense. That's also why the Moline Illinois scenario was in the works last March.

I'm told the Kansas City group that had mentioned AHL is no longer the group running the show there and that the current people are only interrested in NHL. I've also heard that Oklahoma City might be a possibility as a site interested in AHL.

That's about all I've been able to piece together but haven't talked to Scott Howson about it for 3 weeks at least.

(I should point out that not all the above came from the Oilers).

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12-30-2006, 04:48 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
It's possible.

And is it not possible that because you don't have to worry about the 10 or so players who play for your AHL team who won't make the NHL that it won't affect your players in a positive manner?

just curious.
Maybe. Time will tell. If that is a winning philosophy, it will surely catch on with the rest of the league.

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12-30-2006, 06:29 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
I'm still waiting to see the evidence that these shared affiliations have actually hurt the Oilers.

Stoll, MAB, Greene, Pouliot, Jacques and Torres all played in the minors for the Oilers as they shared an affiliate.

This volume of players is bigger in both quantity and quality than anything the Oilers developed in the previous 10 years of having a single AHL affiliate that they controlled.
Torres play on which shared team?

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12-30-2006, 07:52 AM
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Torres play on which shared team?
I guess he is talking about the 34 games (regular season plus playoffs) he played with Hamilton in the 2002-03 season. Other than the time he spent in the AHL during the lockout (with the Roadrunners), that's the only time he was in the minors since he was traded to the Oilers.

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12-30-2006, 09:57 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Flaming View Post
No "news" on this but the latest I have is sounding more like:

At best, a true split for next year is likely. There appears to not be a partner out there to take on the responsibility of running the franchise while the Oilers supply the players.

The list of locations that was offered up in post #7 - I think it's safe to say that anything west of the Rocky Mountains is out as it would be too far from the rest of the league, it's a bus league.

The Oilers have told me they want a site west of the Great Lakes so places like Green Bay, Indianapolis, KC, etc make sense. That's also why the Moline Illinois scenario was in the works last March.

I'm told the Kansas City group that had mentioned AHL is no longer the group running the show there and that the current people are only interrested in NHL. I've also heard that Oklahoma City might be a possibility as a site interested in AHL.

That's about all I've been able to piece together but haven't talked to Scott Howson about it for 3 weeks at least.

(I should point out that not all the above came from the Oilers).
Guy:

I doubt Oklahoma City is wanting to move up from the Blazers prospective in regards to how it affects their fanbase unless there's something AHL Fans aren't aware of and then the possibility of a Seattle Sonics potential move once the Hornets return full time to New Orleans.

I think the AHL Office had discussions with the Blazers owners if they and w/ the Oilers having a dormant affiliate already, their ownership responded with a thanks but we'll pass.

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