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Mega deal?

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:21 AM
  #26
oildrop
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boondock Saint
I wouldn't mind throwing a vet into the mix, but I would be very hesitant to move one of the leaders of this team. Young teams have very fragile confidence, as evidenced by this season. Guys like Moreau, Staios, Smith, Smyth, etc are crucial to our young team just by the leadership they provide.

I hope by moving a vet, Prender ment Horcoff, Isbister, Laraque, etc.

I feel that a big part the reason we are below five hundred is that not one of these guys has elevated their game from last year. I was obviously hoping that all 3 of them would continue improving their game, but realistically, I thought that at least one of them would step it up. Having all three struggling has really hurt our team, IMO.
I hope they add Laraque to any trade involving Comrie. It's no coincidence that the Oilers have lost every game since Laraque was inserted back into the lineup. The guy is not doing his job at all.

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:23 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chayos1
Torres York Hemsky
Chistov oates Dvorak
Moreau Reasoner Pisani
Chimera Stoll Lupal

Brewer vishnevski
Smith Staois
Bergeron Cross

Salo/conks With bryz ready to go if we have another injury
but if you add that to Issy (who WILL get better), Pouliot, Ninnimaki, and a few other prospects(sure Oates wont be there any more).We arent that small.Cross, Smith and Vishnevsky are hitters on all 3 duos, Moreau, Torres can hit, Issy, Chimera plus maybe draft a few hitters, we could go far with all the talent. think...chistov, hemsky, lupol.

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:24 AM
  #28
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I'm all for trading Comrie + Laraque to fill our holes. Then we can make a minor trade for a tough guy (or just sign one) to sit in the pressbox until we need him to fight; preferably getting a guy who knows his role (this team needs a GOON to make chumps like Gauthier pay for their actions).

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:24 AM
  #29
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What a garbage article – Brownlee contradicts himself multiple times and Pendergast saying “where are our stars” is dumb beyond belief. I’ll tell ya where are our stars are – they’re playing in St Louis, Dallas and New York because we are small market.

If he’s talking about Brew and Smyth having poor years then he should explain why MacT decided to make Smyth into Todd Marchants replacement on the 3rd line this year and why Brewer was thrust into a #1 role 2 years to early. York and Devo have been fine and Izzy hurt a lot – but I’d hardly call these guys stars.

This is awful journalism and I’ll cut Pendergast some slack because Brownlee probably misquoted him. Don’t waste any more bandwidth on this crap.

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:34 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Asiaoil
What a garbage article – Brownlee contradicts himself multiple times and Pendergast saying “where are our stars” is dumb beyond belief. I’ll tell ya where are our stars are – they’re playing in St Louis, Dallas and New York because we are small market.

If he’s talking about Brew and Smyth having poor years then he should explain why MacT decided to make Smyth into Todd Marchants replacement on the 3rd line this year and why Brewer was thrust into a #1 role 2 years to early. York and Devo have been fine and Izzy hurt a lot – but I’d hardly call these guys stars.

This is awful journalism and I’ll cut Pendergast some slack because Brownlee probably misquoted him. Don’t waste any more bandwidth on this crap.
Catch your breath Asiaoil and tell us what you really think.

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Old
12-02-2003, 10:48 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Oiltalk
Catch your breath Asiaoil and tell us what you really think.
Yeah I get a bit grumpy reading really awful journalism like that before my first coffee

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Old
12-02-2003, 12:06 PM
  #32
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This is the article, without the article....just Prendergast's quotes.

"We have to look at our team and our situation," Prendergast said yesterday. "We have to take a look at it. We have to consider if there's some players we can put on the table along with Mike. We'd have to get back exactly what we'd want, to do something like that, and that's not a given, but we have players other teams are interested in."

"We've got a 20-year-old (Ales Hemsky) who has five goals for us and a 22-year-old (Raffi Torres) who has eight goals," said Prendergast. "Where are our stars? Where are these guys?

"When you're 27th on the power play and 30th in penalty killing, your front-end guys and your back end guys who you're paying a lot of money to aren't doing the job.

"Maybe it's time to take a look and say, 'Maybe we can make a two-for-two deal or a three-for-three deal.' I don't know, but I think it's something we have to go over."

"We're not going to give the guy away for the sake of making a trade," Prendergast said. "We know the kid wants to be traded, but we don't have anybody saying, 'We're interested.'

"Kevin's got to make the right deal ... we could turn around and say, 'Sure, we'll just take this or that.' What are the fans going to say? What are you (media) guys going to say?"

"You've got to have a partner to dance with and we're not even close to that," Prendergast said. "We're like the ugly guy at the dance. Nobody wants any part of us. We're on the phone every day talking, but we're not getting any takers on anything. This is like a chess match and sometimes you have to sit and wait."

"We have to evaluate our hockey club," Prendergast said. "We thought coming out of training camp we were going to be a much better hockey club than we were. I honestly thought so. Right now, we're not. Why is that? Maybe we're over-valuing our personnel. Maybe it's time to look around."

As you can tell he has alot to say, but Browlee really de-credits the article by throwing out names, some call this good reporting, but I'm not one of them.

This article definately invites speculation however. So I guess we have no choice but to speculate. I think there are only a handful of untouchables on our club right now (Smyth, Hemsky, Dvorak, York, Torres, Moreau, Reasoner, Stoll, Staois, Bergeron and Conklin.) OK, that's alot more than a handful but my point is Smytty will not be traded. Izzy, i think will not be moved, I think he will be given atleast til the end of this season to develop here and turn the ship around. Guys like Horcoff are basically worthless right now and I don't think would strengthen a deal, also, which team is looking for 2 small defenseman in the same deal, I dont see this happening.

I'm all for trading Laraque though, he is useless right now, he needs to buy a mean streak, because otherwise he is just taking up space on our roster.

I would like to see 2 package deals go down, I think Buffalo is a formidable trade partner, same with Montreal. Montreal has no goons, and Buffalo has 2. So I think a 3 way deal might work with these guys as main components.

M. Comrie
G. Laraque
J. Smith

Y. Perrault
M. Komisarek
P. Brisbois

E. Boulton/A. Peters
J. Mckee
R. Miller

Buffalo has too many goons and too many goalies, Montreal needs size and muscle, Edmonton fans seem to agree that we need a stud D-man and a goalie to fill the gap between Salo and JD Delaurias(SP). I don't really know if this works for all parties, but it seems to fulfill the needs of all parties.

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Old
12-02-2003, 12:35 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
Buffalo has too many goons and too many goalies, Montreal needs size and muscle, Edmonton fans seem to agree that we need a stud D-man and a goalie to fill the gap between Salo and JD Delaurias(SP). I don't really know if this works for all parties, but it seems to fulfill the needs of all parties.
Buffalo may have too many goaltenders but Miller is definitely not going anywhere.. you'd have a lot more luck trying to acquire Biron or Noronen.

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Old
12-02-2003, 12:49 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
M. Comrie
G. Laraque
J. Smith

Y. Perrault
M. Komisarek
P. Brisbois

E. Boulton/A. Peters
J. Mckee
R. Miller
Trade 1: We are taking on a tonnnnnnne of salary there. To make it worse, Perrault is UFA at the end of the year (no?), so the deal becomes Comrie, Laraque, Smith for Komi, Brisby. Instead of Perrault, why not go after Perezhogin, et al.?

Trade 2: I like this trade, although, I would search for something a little different. Perhaps Peters, Conolly, Mckee, Noronen. We add a pick to even it out.

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Old
12-02-2003, 12:54 PM
  #35
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I'll clarify my earlier post. I didnt really say which players go where, Those were just tha main components with all 3 teams trading a mix of guys they dont need and guys they'd need to trade in order to get back what they need. I didnt really say who goes where. that was just the framework for a deal.

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Old
12-02-2003, 01:10 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by mowzie
So I think a 3 way deal might work with these guys as main components.
Ah, touché.

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Old
12-02-2003, 01:13 PM
  #37
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Actually, Langdon is doing a good job as the enforcer in Montreal and along with Begin is making Gainey's first acquisitions look very insightful.
To top it off, Laracque has said publicly that he would not want to play in Montreal.

What Montreal could use, Edmonton won't give up i.e. Smyth and Torres.

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12-02-2003, 01:14 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by mowzie
Montreal has no goons,
Montreal has Darren LanGoon.

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Old
12-02-2003, 02:02 PM
  #39
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I think a 3 for 2 (possibly a pick) has more potential than a 3 for 3.

Comrie, Chimera, Laraque, Rita and Horcoff are the guys most likely to make up the 3 from us.

Brewer and Smith won't be traded, what are some of you guys smoking!

Moreau, Reasoner, Dvorak, Hemsky, Semenov, Brewer, Staios, Bergeron, Smith, Smyth, York, Torres and Oates are the guys I can't see us dealing at all.

Brewer might have the most upside from a trading partner's POV, but we'd need a defenseman will equal or near equal ability for it to happen. If anything, we could use a top 4 d-man, not lose one.

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Old
12-02-2003, 02:16 PM
  #40
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Mowzie did this thread a huge favor by posting Prendergast's quotes sans the Brownlee stuff.

imo, Lowe is completely crazy to trade Comrie if he can't get full value. If there's nothing on the table, fine. The Oilers won't fall off the face of the earth if they finish 10th.

But they cannot trade one of their skill players for ten cents on the dollar. Madness.

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Old
12-02-2003, 05:43 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lowetide
Mowzie did this thread a huge favor by posting Prendergast's quotes sans the Brownlee stuff.

imo, Lowe is completely crazy to trade Comrie if he can't get full value. If there's nothing on the table, fine. The Oilers won't fall off the face of the earth if they finish 10th.

But they cannot trade one of their skill players for ten cents on the dollar. Madness.
Agree totally LT. If that's the case then Lowe should just offer Comrie his qualifier again and say accept it and play while a trade is worked out or sit the next year or two (whenever the lockout ends). It's ultimatum time like Muckler did with Havlat because this circus has gone on long enough. It's complete insanity to give him away for 2nd tier prospects to confernece competition like Anaheim or the Preds. We are actually better getting nothing for him while he sits than having him strengthen our competition. At least that would send a message to any future kid who thought he could squeeze major dollars out of the org on a first contract and then demand a trade as soon as it was complete.

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Old
12-02-2003, 05:55 PM
  #42
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It's a good thing Mowzie posted it without the editorializing from Brownlee (sorry, I know that offends some people to say that...I just don't like the guy's writing style). Lowe is in no hurry, but yes, as the season wears on and should the Oilers continue to struggle with consistency, then it will force Lowe's hand somewhat.

I am also really glad to read Kevin Prendergast's comments about what the fans and media would think. There are no good deals to be had currently, from our perspective. So why not wait it out then? We gripe and commiserate about the poor play of so and so, that's the nature of a fan. I don't honestly believe Lowe would react solely on the fan / media reaction, however. It is contingent on the players to perform. Period.

What I am hoping this does is galvanize the team and especially the underachievers to respond like professional hockey players, and start playing with 100% effort and commitment. Hopefully, that was the intent of management as well. To be fair to Smyth, he was asked to move to a different position, take on a different role and did so with no complaints. That is what you would expect from a professional. Given that he has had to make adjustments, though, I don't see how the mounting criticism of his play is justified. The centre has very different responsibilities.

Trading our captain Jason Smith doesn't make sense to me either; he is +11 and one of the quiet stalwarts on an otherwise average D line. Wouldn't that kill the team chemistry somewhat? Yeah, some of the guys need to do more, show up every night (i.e. Isbister, Laraque, Chimera, Horcoff) but if they're not going to do it, then I guess a move is inevitable at some point. I really hope it's not one of the veterans in the room however; losing the leadership would probably kill any hopes of a drive for a playoff spot, not to mention being dressing room poison. None of our young players are ready to step up and assume the mantle of leadership, sorry to say.

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Old
12-02-2003, 06:07 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM
I think a 3 for 2 (possibly a pick) has more potential than a 3 for 3.

Comrie, Chimera, Laraque, Rita and Horcoff are the guys most likely to make up the 3 from us.

Brewer and Smith won't be traded, what are some of you guys smoking!

Moreau, Reasoner, Dvorak, Hemsky, Semenov, Brewer, Staios, Bergeron, Smith, Smyth, York, Torres and Oates are the guys I can't see us dealing at all.

Brewer might have the most upside from a trading partner's POV, but we'd need a defenseman will equal or near equal ability for it to happen. If anything, we could use a top 4 d-man, not lose one.
Reading this post, which I agree with almost to the letter, made me want to repost something I wrote in another thread...

So, here it is

-------------------------------

I would say the players likely moving with Mikey would be one of (or a combination of) Horcoff, Laraque or Chimera, with the most likely to go being Chimera due to the logjam at LW and the desire expressed by Lowe when he was acquired to play York on the wing.

The reason I say this is due to the glut of forwards right now. I don't think anyone in the organization would be concerned if Rita/Salmelainen was in the regular lineup right now, however, the thought of Lynch or Allen fightens most—and rightfully so.

That is also why I think it is unlikely Smith will be moving until the deadline or the offseason, our depth on the blueline just isn't good enough.

In my opinion, a package of Comrie, Chimera and one of Horcoff/Laraque could get us a solid C and D deal (something like Arkhipov and Hamhuis, along with possibly a 2nd/3rd).

I think that will be the likely return in any package: a big, young C with upside and a big, young D with upside.

The format of any such deal seems to make sense to me. Something like one of these two:

Comrie, Chimera and Laraque/Horcoff

FOR

Arkhipov, Hamhuis and a 3rd

or

Lupul, Vishnevski and a 3rd

I doubt we will see Jason Smith moved unless there's a pair of D men coming back, one of whom can step in and play a solid 20 minutes a night.

My 2 cents...

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Old
12-02-2003, 06:12 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Shizuka
It's a good thing Mowzie posted it without the editorializing from Brownlee
Bingo. Someone else noted that too.

Have you ever seen the Wierd Al skits where he takes an actual interview of a star and inserts his own questions b4 their answers?

It's absolutely hilarious stuff.

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Old
12-02-2003, 06:26 PM
  #45
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This summer, it was pretty much agreed that ethan was the first off the island by everyone here and other oiler sites. The person who claims not to have considered it fait acompli is not being truthfull.

None of us (including media people) really have a clue who will be dealt. When it happens, it wil happen.

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12-02-2003, 06:38 PM
  #46
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Welp, after reading a bunch of the responces to Brownlee's article on the different sections of these boards, people did exactly what I expected. Took Brownlee's proposed names as gospel and ignored the fact that Prendergast said they wouldn't make a deal just to make a deal and now you have a bunch of fans thinking they can screw us and grab all our best players for prospects/pick/other garbage. Oh well...guess I shouldn't be supprised.

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12-02-2003, 06:54 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kAsT
Welp, after reading a bunch of the responces to Brownlee's article on the different sections of these boards, people did exactly what I expected. Took Brownlee's proposed names as gospel and ignored the fact that Prendergast said they wouldn't make a deal just to make a deal and now you have a bunch of fans thinking they can screw us and grab all our best players for prospects/pick/other garbage. Oh well...guess I shouldn't be supprised.
We have a good team here and I don't know why everyone is in a panick. Mactavish should let them play together without mixing them up for a while. IMO they will start to gel and by the time the playoffs come they will be a well oiled machine. The thing is not to panic. The last couple of games they outshot the opposition by quite a bit, they just didn't outscore them. If the effort they had in those games continue the scores will come.

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12-02-2003, 10:04 PM
  #48
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J-wiz guys, my ears are burning, who woulda thought that copying and pasting some quotes would gain me so much recognition on this particular thread. Mowzie this, Mowzie that, I feel like The Vancouver Canucks on the late night episodes of Sportsnet News, I'm all you're talking about. lol.

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12-02-2003, 11:13 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
This summer, it was pretty much agreed that ethan was the first off the island by everyone here and other oiler sites. The person who claims not to have considered it fait acompli is not being truthfull.

None of us (including media people) really have a clue who will be dealt. When it happens, it wil happen.
im sure you'll remember the arguments (on this board anyway) is that Ethan will leave because he earns too much. If people were given the option to keep Moreau at the same price/paycut we would have all said yes as he is very consistent in his play.

As for Brownlee he is in idiot,
"At the same time, interest in Comrie, 24 games and 81 days since Lowe locked the sulking hometown hero out of training camp Sept. 12"

Lowe never locked him out, Comrie locked himself out.

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12-03-2003, 06:44 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Sakich
When it happens, it wil happen.
Screams of adoration
Rainbows of red as goal-light flashes
Heroes are made in the eyes of thousands
The goal is under video review

I also heard somewhere that, apparently, there is no spoon.

Sorry. First coffee

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