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Old
12-30-2006, 11:35 PM
  #26
BobMarleyNYR
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Arseny Bondarev...

Yeah, but we all know power forwards take longer to develop. I say give Jessiman till he's 40-45... he's my friend on Facebook and I'm this close to sending him a message to get his **** together.

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12-31-2006, 12:17 AM
  #27
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To be fair, the Rangers aren't the only team that passed on better players, but it is a frustrating facet of this organization: their overall inability to draft well, and it's spanned nearly 20 years.

That said, the way this organization treats its youth, who is to say that any of the names listed in this thread who are better than Jessiman would have even gotten a fair shot at the NHL?

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12-31-2006, 12:40 AM
  #28
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I dunno it's a little bit of a double edged sword.

On the one hand this team doesn't treat it's youth very well, but on the other hand it really hasn't had a ton of dynamic young players either.

Those who did stand out, for the most part have gotten a pretty fair shake. Those who didn't never really seemed to materialize into much anyway.

So it kind of goes back to the age old debate, where they ruined by the Rangers or were they just not good prospects in the first place.

It's really hard to tell because poor drafted and poor management have gone hand in hand for so long.

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12-31-2006, 01:11 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prucha25Graves988 View Post
Dustin Brown..........................
dont remind me great scouts we have. maybe our prospects are overrated

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12-31-2006, 01:31 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRGNYR View Post
To be fair, the Rangers aren't the only team that passed on better players, but it is a frustrating facet of this organization: their overall inability to draft well, and it's spanned nearly 20 years.
Devils 1st round busts:

1996 - Lance Ward
1997 - Jean-Francois Damphousse
1999 - Ari Ahonen
2001 - Adrian Foster
2002 - Anton Kadeykin (2nd round actually but was our first pick that year)

It happens to everyone just like you said.

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Old
12-31-2006, 01:34 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
Devils 1st round busts:

1996 - Lance Ward
1997 - Jean-Francois Damphousse
1999 - Ari Ahonen
2001 - Adrian Foster
2002 - Anton Kadeykin (2nd round actually but was our first pick that year)

It happens to everyone just like you said.
Jason Ward especially where the Habs drafted him

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12-31-2006, 01:37 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHall18NYR View Post
dont remind me great scouts we have. maybe our prospects are overrated
I always loved Dustin Brown....skated with him a few years back, really talented player. Great shot

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Old
12-31-2006, 01:39 AM
  #33
Ronnie Bass
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Originally Posted by AHall18NYR View Post
Jason Ward especially where the Habs drafted him
I dunno, that might be nothing if you take a look at where this current Devil got drafted:

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisp...3?pid=00014458

7th overall???

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12-31-2006, 01:47 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
Devils 1st round busts:

1996 - Lance Ward
1997 - Jean-Francois Damphousse
1999 - Ari Ahonen
2001 - Adrian Foster
2002 - Anton Kadeykin (2nd round actually but was our first pick that year)

It happens to everyone just like you said.
Yeah but you can at least a little more understanding because

A. They won 3 cups in 8 years.

B. They were consistently picking lower.


If you're not winning than you're picking pretty high. If you're picking pretty high, you better be coming up with something. Also if you're missing picks in 2 out of 3 drafts, the DEEP 2003 draft is not the place you reach.

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12-31-2006, 01:58 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Yeah but you can at least a little more understanding because

A. They won 3 cups in 8 years.

B. They were consistently picking lower.


If you're not winning than you're picking pretty high. If you're picking pretty high, you better be coming up with something. Also if you're missing picks in 2 out of 3 drafts, the DEEP 2003 draft is not the place you reach.
I understand that we are more prone to busts because where we picked, but my point is that if you looked at the players drafted after all these Devils busts, we could also be kicking ourselves.

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12-31-2006, 02:03 AM
  #36
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Boyd Devereaux, Jason Bonsenginore, Joe Hulbig, Michael Henrich, Jani Rita and Steve Kelly drafted by our wonderful gm all top first round picks

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12-31-2006, 02:07 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
I understand that we are more prone to busts because where we picked, but my point is that if you looked at the players drafted after all these Devils busts, we could also be kicking ourselves.
I think you have to have one or the other.

Losing and not getting players is the hockey equivalent of the plague.

What also hurts is that the Rangers have some REALLY poor drafts in there as well.

I mean let's go back and look at an 7 year span:

96 was a complete bust

97 produced one NHL player and I'm not convinced Holmqvist is a legit NHL goalie.

98 Produced a third line center and a backup goalie (who I put with Holmqvist), for other teams.

99 was about a total bust.

2000 is salvaged by Lundqvist, Moore is a nice third line player.

2001 could've been great, but so far only looks good. Had they kept Zidlicky it'd have been more but the Rangers essentially got Tyutin and a fourth line banger out of the draft.

2002 is salvaged only by Prucha.

I mean that's just downright pitiful.

There's bad drafting and then there's the Rangers.

When you miss the playoffs for 7 years and pick no lower than 12th, you've gotta come up with more than that.

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Old
12-31-2006, 02:16 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I think you have to have one or the other.

Losing and not getting players is the hockey equivalent of the plague.

What also hurts is that the Rangers have some REALLY poor drafts in there as well.

I mean let's go back and look at an 7 year span:

96 was a complete bust

97 produced one NHL player and I'm not convinced Holmqvist is a legit NHL goalie.

98 Produced a third line center and a backup goalie (who I put with Holmqvist), for other teams.

99 was about a total bust.

2000 is salvaged by Lundqvist, Moore is a nice third line player.

2001 could've been great, but so far only looks good. Had they kept Zidlicky it'd have been more but the Rangers essentially got Tyutin and a fourth line banger out of the draft.

2002 is salvaged only by Prucha.

I mean that's just downright pitiful.

There's bad drafting and then there's the Rangers.

When you miss the playoffs for 7 years and pick no lower than 12th, you've gotta come up with more than that.
But if you look at the last three years I think you guys have done more than OK:

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr000048.html

I think the reason before for the Rangers bad drafting from 2003 and before that was that they were always so preoccupied with signing high priced FA's instead of building within and it showed, but in 2004 they started their rebuild from within and you just got to give it more time, this stuff just doesn't happen overnight.

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12-31-2006, 02:26 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou is God View Post
But if you look at the last three years I think you guys have done more than OK:

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr000048.html

I think the reason before for the Rangers bad drafting from 2003 and before that was that they were always so preoccupied with signing high priced FA's instead of building within and it showed, but in 2004 they started their rebuild from within and you just got to give it more time, this stuff just doesn't happen overnight.
Time will ultimately tell on how the Rangers have done in the last 3, but I will say this.

If the Rangers had drafted like this in say 2000, 01 and 02 I would've been a little more willing to accept their reach. To me that's why it really comes back to context. Sometimes it's not necessarily the move itself but rather the time and context.

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12-31-2006, 02:33 AM
  #40
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The Devils never signed Lance Ward, he re-entered the draft, and we got a second round compensation pick for him in 1998. That pick was traded along with another one to move up in the draft to pick Scott Gomez.

Damphosse was traded along with Sykora and Commodore for Jeff Friesen and Oleg Tverdovsky.

Kayedkin was a 2nd round pick. we traded our first round pick that year to Dallas in the Nieuwendyk, Langenbrunner deal.

Adrian Foster and Ari Ahonen are complete busts.

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Old
12-31-2006, 02:36 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHall18NYR View Post
Boyd Devereaux, Jason Bonsenginore, Joe Hulbig, Michael Henrich, Jani Rita and Steve Kelly drafted by our wonderful gm all top first round picks
Wow, Sather laid some turds back in Edmonton as well.

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12-31-2006, 02:49 AM
  #42
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Wow, Sather laid some turds back in Edmonton as well.
he did pick arnott, who was a high pick and Ryan Smyth as well, rucinsky in 2ed round and satan later on, but for those other players that I listed, that is horrible since they are all high first round picks.

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12-31-2006, 02:55 AM
  #43
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overdue.

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12-31-2006, 04:03 AM
  #44
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I would like to see Hugh suit up for at least one game with the Rangers before whatever happens to him. You never know, he might just be an AHL bust.(or not)

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12-31-2006, 04:31 AM
  #45
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I would like to see Hugh suit up for at least one game with the Rangers before whatever happens to him. You never know, he might just be an AHL bust.(or not)
I agree. Sometimes, just throwing a kid straight into the fire is what it takes to wake his game up.

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12-31-2006, 04:33 AM
  #46
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I think the problem right now is that he just seems to be struggling way too much to do that.

I always thought those fire moves were just a desperation, feel good move so you could say your pick played in the NHL. I can't recall anyone suddenly becoming a player as a result of that.

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12-31-2006, 04:37 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHall18NYR View Post
he did pick arnott, who was a high pick and Ryan Smyth as well, rucinsky in 2ed round and satan later on, but for those other players that I listed, that is horrible since they are all high first round picks.
I thought his drafting was very hit or miss. Ironically I really liked the Steve Kelly pick who I thought was going to be a very solid second line center with skating, playmaking and an edge. A poor man's Messier if you will. He's near the top of my all-time disappointment lists.

One thing that alway's intrigued me about Arnott is the love affair the Smith regime had with him. Like Shanahan, he was another one of those guys who was almost a Ranger on a number of occassions.

He was the guy Smith REALLY wanted in the 93 draft and when Sather was looking to ship him out, he was nearly a Ranger again.

But it becomes one of those fantasy scenarios. What if Smith had drafted Arnott and he played behind Messier as the second line center? What if Smith had than gone ahead and traded Kovalev for Shanahan or not traded a guy like Amonte.

Graves-Messier-Verbeek
Shanahan-Arnott-Amonte

Of course it's a total what-if/fantasy scenario, but it's fun to think of how close that was.

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Old
12-31-2006, 05:20 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
He was the guy Smith REALLY wanted in the 93 draft and when Sather was looking to ship him out, he was nearly a Ranger again.
From what I remember, the reason for NOT trading for Arnott was pretty ironic. Kovalev was supposed to go the other way. Sather asked for Cairns to be added. Smith thought that was an overpayment and sent Kovalev to Pitt. In the beginning of next year Cairns was waived because Muckler wouldn't play him. We ended up with Nedved.

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Old
12-31-2006, 07:42 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
What's hurt Jessiman is his head for the game. He doesn't really have one.

If he at least seemed to be able to follow the game you'd say that maybe with his size he could turn into a Jason Ward type.

The problem is that his skills really aren't that exceptional and his vision for the game/hockey sense is really limited.

You can really see it when you watch him. He's bailed out sometimes because he is just so darn big, but he really just doesn't seem to be able to keep up with the game or the play of higher end talent.

Sadly that's been the problem dating back to his WJC camp days and his rookie camp days. It hasn't improved with time and to be an NHL player you have to have one of two things or a combination of these two things: skill and understanding.

Jessiman just really doesn't seem to have an abundance of either and that doesn't paint an exceptionally good picture.

And maybe, somehow, he becomes a marginal player for someone else (aka Jason Ward) but that doesn't do anything for the Rangers and frankly I care more about the Rangers than I do about Hugh's career.
Sadly I think your analsis of him is dead on. He was a reach when he was picked and I somehow wonder if his being a local kid and a NYR fan had more of a impact in the decision then it should have warranted. I would be interested in knowing from someone who knows Jessiman if he comes from a financially comfortable family.
The few times I've seen him play I've always felt he lacked that drive. To me it was as if he expected things to come to him rather then having to fight for them.

He reminds me of the kids in youth sports whose daddies and mommies have a big impact and their kid gets moved up the ladder when they really aren;t that deserving. I've seen that so much in youth soccer with my own son when he was a kid. Eventually that kind of player is thought to possess the requiste talent simply by his inclusion with players who actually do possess that talent.

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Old
12-31-2006, 07:44 AM
  #50
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I thought his drafting was very hit or miss. Ironically I really liked the Steve Kelly pick who I thought was going to be a very solid second line center with skating, playmaking and an edge. A poor man's Messier if you will. He's near the top of my all-time disappointment lists.

One thing that alway's intrigued me about Arnott is the love affair the Smith regime had with him. Like Shanahan, he was another one of those guys who was almost a Ranger on a number of occassions.

He was the guy Smith REALLY wanted in the 93 draft and when Sather was looking to ship him out, he was nearly a Ranger again.

But it becomes one of those fantasy scenarios. What if Smith had drafted Arnott and he played behind Messier as the second line center? What if Smith had than gone ahead and traded Kovalev for Shanahan or not traded a guy like Amonte.

Graves-Messier-Verbeek
Shanahan-Arnott-Amonte

Of course it's a total what-if/fantasy scenario, but it's fun to think of how close that was.
Was that really necessary?

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