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Done Deal: Kloucek to Atlanta...

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Old
12-02-2003, 12:46 PM
  #1
AvsGuy
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Done Deal: Kloucek to Atlanta...

http://www.nhl.com/onthefly/news/2003/12/184168.html

Tomas Kloucek and Ben Simon to the Thrashers for Simon Gamanche and Kiril Safronov...

doesn't really make sense for the Preds, to me anyways.

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Old
12-02-2003, 12:59 PM
  #2
woody
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsGuy
http://www.nhl.com/onthefly/news/2003/12/184168.html

Tomas Kloucek and Ben Simon to the Thrashers for Simon Gamanche and Kiril Safronov...

doesn't really make sense for the Preds, to me anyways.
Kloucek was always overrated in my eyes. Preds add two players into their system which is OK.

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Old
12-02-2003, 01:01 PM
  #3
Slats432
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Any scouting reports on Safronov?

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12-02-2003, 01:06 PM
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Burke's Evil Spirit
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I don't think I like this for Atlanta. Safronov is the only thing vaguely resembling a puck-rushing defenceman in the Atlanta system (prospects I mean). With the injury to Yannick Tremblay, you'd think Safronov would get some time with the big club now. I don't know why Kloucek would be added when Atlanta already has Exelby and Coburn in the system.

I like this from Nashville's perspective, though.

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12-02-2003, 01:11 PM
  #5
Peter Sidorkiewicz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsGuy
http://www.nhl.com/onthefly/news/2003/12/184168.html

Tomas Kloucek and Ben Simon to the Thrashers for Simon Gamanche and Kiril Safronov...

doesn't really make sense for the Preds, to me anyways.
Doesn't make sense for the thrash too. Kloucek was a good prospect with the rangers but after he blew out his knee trying to check Ray Ferraro he has never been the same. Safronov is a pretty good prospect and would probably make nashville's team. So I think Atlanta loses out there.

Also trading Gamache doesn't make sense either, considering we have few prospects with offensive capabilities in the system. We had Simon before and he is nothing more than AHLer.

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12-02-2003, 01:15 PM
  #6
Teemu
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I dont get it, i think safronov is much better than kloucek.

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12-02-2003, 01:16 PM
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Simon for Simon. Confusing, really.

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Old
12-02-2003, 01:26 PM
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Enoch
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Watch Hartley turn Kloucek around. I'm not as informed on these two players as I would like, but from what I did know, I thought both had decent upside....Can some Thrash fans fill me in??

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12-02-2003, 01:31 PM
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_Del_
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What struck my eye, is that both Kloucek and Safronov have been mentioned as potential blueline help for the Oil in a Comrie deal -- could this move be a case where perhaps Edmonton wanted one of them more than the other, and this is simply a move to set up a Comrie deal?



Just a thought, as I see Lowe is seriously talking about trading Comrie on TSN.ca...

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12-02-2003, 01:33 PM
  #10
Dupuis>Ilya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
Any scouting reports on Safronov?
Yeah. He sucks.

Seriously, he's always looked scared at the NHL level. Burke's Evil Spirit, I'm not sure how you figured he's the only puckrushing defenseman in Atlanta's system ... three of the guys we drafted this year (Coburn, Sharrow, and Enstrom) probably have better potential in that regard. Foster isn't much handling the puck, but he has a hell of a shot which is more than I can say for Safronov. Kirill is more of a stay-at-home type than a puckrushing defenseman. He's decently physical for a Euro guy, but he's wildly inconsistent. I've still been holding out hope he might come around, but I did let out a sigh of relief that he's gone.

Gamache is the better of the two players Nashville got if you ask me. He too has looked lost at the NHL level, but at least he's been dominant in the AHL (Safronov has had his ups and downs down there too.) Gamache struggled his first year as a pro and had to spend most of that season in the ECHL. He really got things going last year. He hasn't looked good his first few NHL games at all, but the fact that he struggled in the AHL for a while before really turning things around gave me hope he might do the same at the NHL level. He's a small scorer, but don't assume that he produces because he's slick and shifty (which he's not, really.) He produces because he's fearless about going into traffic and he has a nice set of hands.

Bottom line: if Kloucek gets over his injury troubles, Atlanta wins the deal because they get the one sure-fire NHL player. If not, Nashville is the clear winner because they get two guys that are OK prospects.

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Old
12-02-2003, 01:54 PM
  #11
GKJ
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Gamache and Safronov are the two best players in the deal. Kloucek is a banged up prospect who hasnt recovered from his blown out knee while the Thrashers are giving up two high potential prospects.

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Old
12-02-2003, 01:57 PM
  #12
Burke's Evil Spirit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dupuis>Ilya
Burke's Evil Spirit, I'm not sure how you figured he's the only puckrushing defenseman in Atlanta's system ... three of the guys we drafted this year (Coburn, Sharrow, and Enstrom) probably have better potential in that regard.
While I'm not too familiar with Sharrow or Enstrom, Coburn is projected as a stay-at-home type such as Derian Hatcher, is he not?

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12-02-2003, 02:02 PM
  #13
Dupuis>Ilya
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Yes, his strong suit is his defensive play, but he's very good in all offensive aspects of the position: skating, passing, and shooting. Coburn is averaging almost a point a game in the Dub this season. He won't be as good as Hatcher defensively and physically, but he should be better offensively.

EDIT: Yeah, he's supposed to be 'like' Pronger, but not as good all around. Not as nasty either.

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12-02-2003, 02:28 PM
  #14
tulsytrid1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvsGuy
http://www.nhl.com/onthefly/news/2003/12/184168.html

Tomas Kloucek and Ben Simon to the Thrashers for Simon Gamanche and Kiril Safronov...

doesn't really make sense for the Preds, to me anyways.
The reason I believe Nashville makes this move is that they were going to have to send Klooch down, and rather than lose him via waiver wire, Poile decides to move him and get something out of it.

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Old
12-02-2003, 02:32 PM
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triggrman
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Kloucek is physical but he is not tough. He's had 3 injuries since we've picked him up, three different injuries. Shoulders, knees, ankles, the dude is a walking IR. When he's healthy though, he's a force, or so I've heard anyway.

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12-02-2003, 02:35 PM
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This deal does not make sense to me. They trade Gamache and Safronov for Kloucek and a guy they just recently lost to free agency who doesn't have the greatest upside.

hmmm maybe your right _Del_

Kloucek + Coburn for Comrie + Semenov?

Coburn=Comrie
Kloucek< Semenov

Lowe really likes Coburn by the sounds of it I think he might give up that extra bit to land him.

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Old
12-02-2003, 02:58 PM
  #17
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This os one of those trade that will have to evaluated at a later date.

All four players are extremely unproven in NHL, and all four players have major question marks.

Gamanhe is small and soft.
Safrnov hasn't done much at this point in the NHL.
Kloucek hasn't been the same since his rookie year. He's always injured.
Simon is a career minor leager.

Maybe one or two will shed these question marks. But it's extremely hard to tell at this point.

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12-02-2003, 03:11 PM
  #18
Foppa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok
This os one of those trade that will have to evaluated at a later date.

All four players are extremely unproven in NHL, and all four players have major question marks.

Gamanhe is small and soft.
Safrnov hasn't done much at this point in the NHL.
Kloucek hasn't been the same since his rookie year. He's always injured.
Simon is a career minor leager.

Maybe one or two will shed these question marks. But it's extremely hard to tell at this point.
Bingo.

I must say, I'm surprised people are still so high on Safronov. I think he'll still be an NHL regular, but certainly not an impact player. Phoenix showed how highly they thought of him by dealing him AND Zainullan for an enforcer in Darcy Hordichuk. And he's never been able to establish himself at the NHL level on a blueline that has hardly been glowing with talent the last few seasons.

I like Kloucek's upside better but thats only if he can stay healthy.

If you want to argue with the Preds winning the deal, I think you have to base it mearly on the fact they got two guys with 'upside' as oppossed to the Thrashers getting only one guy with 'upside' really. Play the percentages.

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Old
12-02-2003, 03:19 PM
  #19
triggrman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa
Bingo.

I must say, I'm surprised people are still so high on Safronov. I think he'll still be an NHL regular, but certainly not an impact player. Phoenix showed how highly they thought of him by dealing him AND Zainullan for an enforcer in Darcy Hordichuk. And he's never been able to establish himself at the NHL level on a blueline that has hardly been glowing with talent the last few seasons.

I like Kloucek's upside better but thats only if he can stay healthy.

If you want to argue with the Preds winning the deal, I think you have to base it mearly on the fact they got two guys with 'upside' as oppossed to the Thrashers getting only one guy with 'upside' really. Play the percentages.
I think this will be a trade when you look back years from now and say......"Who?"

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Old
12-02-2003, 03:22 PM
  #20
Foppa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman
I think this will be a trade when you look back years from now and say......"Who?"
Could be. Heck, maybe Ben Simon suddnely blossoms into the best player in the deal, unlikely as that may be.

With no movement on the Comrie front as of yet, and the Straka trade a pretty simple one to analysis, I'm sure this deal will undergo far more scrutiny than its worth...

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Old
12-02-2003, 03:23 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teemu08
I dont get it, i think safronov is much better than kloucek.

kloucek is on crazy mo fo though
he was nuts in junior for cape breton and i remember him killing tanguay who played for halifax at the time

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12-02-2003, 03:25 PM
  #22
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kloucek should add a little more grit to atlanta's blueline, but is prone to taking bonehead penalties, and will probably get hurt due to his wreckless style

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Old
12-02-2003, 03:30 PM
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I think Gamache is the best player in this trade.
He was the best offensive player in the QHJML 2 (or 3) years ago and he has a really good potential.

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12-02-2003, 03:34 PM
  #24
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GAMACHE AMATEUR CAREER: Notched 389 points (157 goals, 232 assists) in 214 QMJHL games ... 2000-01: Set a Canadian Hockey League record with 57 post-season points (22 goals, 35 assists) in 2001... Shared lead among all players at the 2001 Memorial Cup with seven points (four goals, three assists) ... Netted four goals at 2001 Memorial Cup to lead tourney ... Tallied 14 points (eight goals, six assists) in the 2001 QMJHL Finals to capture the President's Trophy ... Led the QMJHL with 57 points, 22 goals, 15 power-play goals, five game-winning tallies and 35 assists during the 2001 postseason ... Led the QMJHL in the regular season with 74 goals, 110 assists and 184 points in 72 games... Tied Mario Lemieux for the 20th highest point total in QMJHL history with his 184 points that season ... Set team records for most goals, assists and points in a season ... Led Val-d'Or with a plus-64 rating, 10 game-winning goals and eight short-handed goals ... Named QMJHL Offensive Player of the Week on three occasions ... 1999-2000: Led Val-d'Or and was third in the QMJHL with 143 points (64 goals, 79 assists) ... Led club and shared third in the league with 64 goals ... Topped the Foreurs with 79 assists ... 1998-99: Set Val-d'Or records for most assists (48) and points (62) by a rookie.

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12-02-2003, 04:02 PM
  #25
Matt Gunning
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I've seen 3 of the 4 players in this deal.
Gamache is rather small and slow, but puts up points at every level so far. If he ever makes the NHL it will be as a powerplay specialist. Think of him as a smaller version of Andrew Brunette perhaps.

Safronov on the other hand has never really impressed me. At times he looks good, but his decision making is erratic. He tends to get tunnel vision and not see teammates who are open to receive a pass. I doubt he will ever be more than a 6/7th defenseman for a NHL team.

Simon is a solid checker. He can play in the NHL as a 3/4th liner.

The Thrashers got two players who can be role players in the NHL (if healthy).

The Predators got two players who are both question marks, who may or may not take the next step up. Both players have more of an offensive upside that the players Nashville gave up.

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