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Orr suspended for 5 games (merged)

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Old
12-31-2006, 02:22 PM
  #26
BobMarleyNYR
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Some complain because he isn't a hockey player. As far as the technique of the game goes, certain peewee players would be more effective. I'm fine if he plays four minutes a game as long as he fights. Last night's game was the most entertaining in awhile. That's what hockey should be, IMO.

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12-31-2006, 02:23 PM
  #27
True Blue Bleed Blue
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
let's review some of Orr's recent games...against Ottaway, Neil 9 hits, Shubert 6 hits, some of them quite rough, and one plastered Prucha's face against the glass. Last night's game, the 38 year old Shanahan took on one of the league's best fighters over the past few seasons, and Jagr got roughed up a bit. In a recent loss to the Isles, I believe Witt roughed up Jagr a bit, with Orr in the lineup. And in the last game against the Devils, in which Orr played and the Rangers were blown out, the Rangers were hit all over the place. Hollweg fought Hale. Rasmussen had a few nice hits.

I'd question the effectiveness of Orr in the lineup. I just don't see him as a deterrent and he's mostly a wasted roster space. So he may win a fight...that does exactly what? It sure doesn't strike fear in Neil's face, a guy who hasn't dropped the gloves with Orr. Brashear's not afraid.
You missed a few things...Orr fought McGrattan and nearly beat him, got in a good shot at the end. Orr fought Brashear and Morrissonn...threw a big hit on AO which was retaliation to Jagr being hit. Orr got the crowd chanting in the end...Orr did his job in the 2 games. Again...wanna replace him? Sure....with who? I don't think Lessard can do a better job and neither will Dale...

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Old
12-31-2006, 02:23 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jon Prescription View Post
What did Brash do? Missed the game. Guy is a thug through and through and a ***** at that. Sucker punches. Pulling hair. Get that idiot out of the NHL.
Brashear first off throwing an Elbow to Jags at Center Ice, then Shanny and Brash go 1 on 1. After that Brash is on his way to the box when A. Ward said something to Donald, thus sucker punching Ward in the Face.

Then i guess to show some Grit, Renney sends out Colton Orr, and he Cross Checks Ovechkin right in the Mouth. Ovy def had some teeth loose. Then i believe Orr fights Shaone Morrisonn.

Both should be suspended atleast 2 games each.

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12-31-2006, 02:24 PM
  #29
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Brashear is afraid of no one.....so thats a moot point. As for Orr not fighting enough, realize he's in a catch22. He screws up enough and he's riding the bench under Renney. He's gotta pick his spots better, and the penalties he takes need to be purposeful ones, but he's the closest thing this team has to a legit enforcer. I love Hollweg, but the guy isn't nearly big enough to fill that role. Hollweg is more like a Barnaby, feisty and in your face, but he can't take on the big boys.....thats Orrs job, and he will get better.

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Old
12-31-2006, 02:26 PM
  #30
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Just for the record there was no "fight" with ShaMo. Poor guy has mono and isn't a fighter at that. at least he tried though which is more than I can say for Ovie's other teammates at that time!

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12-31-2006, 02:30 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Clymer27 View Post
Just for the record there was no "fight" with ShaMo. Poor guy has mono and isn't a fighter at that. at least he tried though which is more than I can say for Ovie's other teammates at that time!
Okay...wasnt sure about that part. I didnt see that part, but thats what i heard.

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12-31-2006, 02:31 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Bonzai12 View Post
Okay...wasnt sure about that part. I didnt see that part, but thats what i heard.
No there was a fight I was being sarcastic that ShaMo is not a fighter and with mono it was a no brainer for someone like Orr!!

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12-31-2006, 02:31 PM
  #33
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I agree that Brashear should definitely get more then Orr does. That was some game last night. I was really happy to see Shanahan stick up for Jagr the way that he did. He's been a great asset to the team this year and he's really growing on me. This is a little bit out of the blue but with all of the fights last night the thought just popped into my head...whatever happened to Sandy McCarthy? I haven't heard about him in a while so I just assumed that he isn't playing anymore.

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Old
12-31-2006, 02:35 PM
  #34
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Tbbb...

I mised nothing...beating Macgratton did....what exactly? I was responding to a post that says he has to be in the lineup as a deterrent - Neil plastered Prucha after winning a fight. Neil had about 5-6 more hits, despite injuring himself, after the fight. Shubert went around hitting everything in sight, and sometimes his hits were borderline.

And yes, Orr fought Brashear...big whoop, what did that do? Brashear continued doing what he was doing and Shanny had to fight Brashear also because Orr was soooo effective.

And great, at the end of a game in which the Rangers have the lead he cheapshots a guy. Usually you don't see that from teams winning - you see that when teams are losing. Let's see where that gets the Rangers - hopefully Brashear doesn't get too upset and beat up Orr too badly the next game.

This is a hockey game, not a boxing match. Too often you focus on wins and losses in the fight column, when it's not about the wins and losses as much as the meaningfulness and effectiveness of what's being done. These days a good fighter will fight 15-20 times per game. If Orr plays 82 games, fights 20 times and wins 15, he's essentially done something in 15 out of 82 games and it likely would have very little impact.

I don't mind an enforcer, but I do mind Orr, because he's not an enforcer, he's just a guy that goes out and gets into an occasional fight, and may at times take a stupid penalty.

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12-31-2006, 02:36 PM
  #35
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Guess I'm just old-school. I see no reason to escalate last night's game beyond what occured on the ice, between the players. It was regulated by the officials, the game ended...and that should be it.

Yes, Brashear took a cheapshot punch at Ward. He was kicked out of the game. Yes, Orr took a cheapshot at Ovechkin. He, too, was sent packing.

Players managed the game themselves, with the assistance of the on-ice officials. Why this demands some sort of visit to the NHL Schoolmaster is simply a means of "government over-regulation" so that Bettman's league can convince itself that it is showing how pure it is to the masses of ficticious casual fans.

We don't want to turn those folks off from the game, you know?

A premeditated, serious injuring of a player (Bertuzzi/Moore) is one thing. Maiming a player with a swinging stick (Wayne Maki/Ted Green, circa 1967) is another. Both clearly deserved league oversight and severe discipline.

But this?

Appropriate reaction for a generation of soft individuals.

Just my opinion.

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Old
12-31-2006, 02:38 PM
  #36
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[QUOTE=Trottier;7510448]Guess I'm just old-school. I see no reason to escalate last night's game beyond what occured on the ice, between the players. It was regulated by the officials, the game ended...and that should be it.

Yes, Brashear took a cheapshot punch at Ward. He was kicked out of the game. Yes, Orr took a cheapshot at Ovechkin. He, too, was sent packing.



?????? For a whole 2 minutes, must have packed light.

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12-31-2006, 02:39 PM
  #37
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As for what Orr should get...

I do not recall the severity of the hit. It will be construed as premeditated and possibly an intent to injure, because it was obviously a retaliation to something that happened previously, or at least that's how I think Campbell will construe it. Of course, there's little consistency from his office, so determining the length is difficult. I don't imagine it would be more than 3 games, and perhaps as small as none or one.

As for Brashear - his reputation precedes him. He'll get suspended just for who he is. The sucker punch on Ward for a first time offender may've been a slap on the wrist; for Brashear, it could certainly be something. I think Ward sold that punch pretty well too as Brash didn't seem to get all behind it.

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Old
12-31-2006, 02:43 PM
  #38
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Trots...

it is weird though. We talked about this before. It's like murder vs. attempted murder. If you shoot a guy, but have bad aim and get him in the leg, you get X. If you happen to get him in the head and kill him, you get X + whatever. Sort of like hockey. If you tug a guy with a force of X and he doesn't flinch, there's no call very often. If you tug a guy with the same force and he falls, there is a call. And if you elbow a guy but on the way that guy slips a bit out to miss the elbow, but somebody else doesn't slip at the last moment and his jaw breaks, the two crimes are met with vastly different punishments, even though the intents of each were the same.

Eh, maybe I'll go enjoy the Oakland lost - their best loss in years!

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12-31-2006, 02:43 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Clymer27 View Post
?????? For a whole 2 minutes, must have packed light.
I thought Orr got kicked out of the game for the shot to the head + the ensuing fight. If I'm mistaken, so be it.

That said (and I'm no Orr apologist; I consider the guy talentless and his move last night, unlike Shanahan's, to be of no value to his team), what exactly do you want the punishment to be?

He cross-checked an opposing player with a cheapshot to the grill. Should it be more because it was a young star? Should the punishment for a cross-check be higher in this case? If so, why?

Over-reaction, if you ask me. One expects it from a partisan fan. Not from the NHL.

Much ado about nothing.

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Old
12-31-2006, 02:47 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
I thought Orr got kicked out of the game for the shot to the head + the ensuing fight. If I'm mistaken, so be it.

That said (and I'm no Orr apologist; I consider the guy talentless and his move last night, unlike Shanahan's, to be of no value to his team), what exactly do you want the punishment to be?

He cross-checked an opposing player with a cheapshot to the grill. Should it be more because it was a young star? Should the punishment for a cross-check be higher in this case? If so, why?

Over-reaction, if you ask me. One expects it from a partisan fan. Not from the NHL.

Much ado about nothing.


I wasnt trying to be a smart ... I just think that it should be the same across the board thats all. Thats the problem with the NHL (like we dont all know this). Brash and Orr and Ward were all wrong and Brash will probably be the only one to be punished

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12-31-2006, 02:59 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Clymer27 View Post
I wasnt trying to be a smart ... I just think that it should be the same across the board thats all. Thats the problem with the NHL (like we dont all know this). Brash and Orr and Ward were all wrong and Brash will probably be the only one to be punished
No harsh feeling coming from here either. I'm just a hockey fan who enjoyed watching an NHL regular season game with bite.

I'll respectfully disagree with you slightly on one point: I personally do not think Brashear, nor Orr nor Ward were "wrong".

Brashear played a mean game all night. When he took liberties with NYR's star, Shanahan (and Orr) made him answer to it. (Pretty meaningless who won the fights; the idea is that there was a response.)

That's hockey.

Brashear punching Ward was cheap, but we were not on the ice. If Ward taunted him (he clearly skated up to him), its hard to suggest that his spontaneous reaction was "wrong", IMO. Not wise, certainly selfish, and undisciplined, but not worthy of some NHL Tribunal Review. Especially since punishment was handed out right then and there: Brashear got kicked out of the game for it. Still all good, if you ask me.

The rationale and impact of Orr's hit on Ovechkin can be analyzed in perpituity, and I'll leave that to others. I'll simply observe that NYR's players reacted post-game to what Shanahan did, not Orr. I personally think that Orr's move placates some fans who want blood moreso than the participants on the ice.

But again, when that occured, the Caps responded. Morrision may have got his butt kicked, but he defended a teammate. And the officials cleaned up the mess appropriately.

All good. That's hockey. Players move on, so should the league. Less intervention from "the suits" is required, not more.

(No doubt I'm in the minority with this opinion, as usual!)


Last edited by Trottier: 12-31-2006 at 03:18 PM.
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Old
12-31-2006, 03:58 PM
  #42
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Orr got five games, Brashear got 1

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitalsinsider/

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12-31-2006, 04:00 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
let's review some of Orr's recent games...against Ottaway, Neil 9 hits, Shubert 6 hits, some of them quite rough, and one plastered Prucha's face against the glass. Last night's game, the 38 year old Shanahan took on one of the league's best fighters over the past few seasons, and Jagr got roughed up a bit. In a recent loss to the Isles, I believe Witt roughed up Jagr a bit, with Orr in the lineup. And in the last game against the Devils, in which Orr played and the Rangers were blown out, the Rangers were hit all over the place. Hollweg fought Hale. Rasmussen had a few nice hits.

I'd question the effectiveness of Orr in the lineup. I just don't see him as a deterrent and he's mostly a wasted roster space. So he may win a fight...that does exactly what? It sure doesn't strike fear in Neil's face, a guy who hasn't dropped the gloves with Orr. Brashear's not afraid.
Let me qualify that I want Orr in the line-up IF AND ONLY IF he is going to do what he did last night, which is go after Ovechkin after Brashear went after Jagr, fought Shanahan (although Shanahan challenged him), and sucker-punched Ward.

If Renney is going to limit how and when he does such a thing, then I will agree that Orr is very useless.

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Old
12-31-2006, 04:02 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
You guys are nuts. They NEED Orr in the line-up. They need someone to go out and send a message when guys like Brashear take liberties with Jagr and Co. You go after my best players, I am going after yours. The game against the Islanders was disgusting with how Jagr was getting run without retribution.

On Tuesday, if Madden or Pandolfo run Jagr, Orr goes after Elias and/or Gomez. It is the only way Jagr will stop getting run.
Sorry, I would rather see someone who can actually contribute to the offense than someone who is purely out there to start trouble. If someone takes a run at Jagr, Ryan Hollweg can do some work if he has to.

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12-31-2006, 04:02 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by The Viking Fury View Post
Orr got five games, Brashear got 1

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitalsinsider/
If it is true, it is horse$h!t. Campbell is a d!ck.

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12-31-2006, 04:03 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by The Viking Fury View Post
Orr got five games, Brashear got 1

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitalsinsider/
Are you kidding me?

I knew this would happen. Guess the league has little problem seeing someone get mugged at open ice.

I thought Orr would get at least 5 because he went after one of the NHL's golden boys.

Im curious if had been the other way around, Jagr getting it from Brashear - what the suspension would be.

Oh well.

Now the Orr haters can rejoice. he wont play at least until the Bruins at home on the 13th.

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12-31-2006, 04:04 PM
  #47
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Sorry, I would rather see someone who can actually contribute to the offense than someone who is purely out there to start trouble. If someone takes a run at Jagr, Ryan Hollweg can do some work if he has to.
You cannot win if your best guys are getting knocked around. It is not as if Immonen is contributing that much offensively that he has to be in the line-up.

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12-31-2006, 04:06 PM
  #48
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I'll simply observe that NYR's players reacted post-game to what Shanahan did, not Orr
That's because Shanahan is a star player and is already considered a "leader". So when he does something like that, players notice more and say more about it.

The Rangers leading goal scorer takes on Brashear?! Wow! What a tough guy! He can do it all! Scores goals and stands up for teammates, what a great leader!

Versus: Oh yeah, Orr got into a fight. Ho hum, I hear he managed to skate across the ice without falling down too.

Even if Orr was a good enforcer, he's not going to garner the same kind of attention in a similar situation as Shanahan. A star player taking on a league heavy weight is more of a story and more inspiring.

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12-31-2006, 04:07 PM
  #49
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I love how two refs are trying to hold Snow back, and he just plows through both of them.

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12-31-2006, 04:07 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
You cannot win if your best guys are getting knocked around. It is not as if Immonen is contributing that much offensively that he has to be in the line-up.
True. But when there were as few goals scored the past few games before last night, they need all the help they can get. I hate seeing our guys get pushed around and I wish everyone could do what Shanny did last night, but I think that if trouble starts, Hollweg can do what Orr does and he is a more complete player.

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