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1991 Lindros Draft Question?

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01-01-2007, 02:34 AM
  #1
ozzie
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1991 Lindros Draft Question?

With a few Lindros threads popping up recently, I was curious as to why San Jose didn't get the first overall pick in the 1991 entry draft.

I remember reading a story about the reasoning, but for the life of me I cannot recall it or its details, was hoping someone else would know why San Jose was moved to second.

Following the normal NHL course of events, San Jose should have drafted first, but I know it had something to do with Sanjose/Tampa expansion at the time.

If San Jose had been awarded the first pick, as it appears they really should have been, do you think Eric Lindros would of reported to an 'expansion' team?, or forced a trade yet again?.

Lindros and his camp originally mentioned that Quebec didn't want to win, or its ownership didn't want to, maybe it was a political smoke screen, as to not offend the frensh, I don't know.

Quebec tanked in the 90/91 season and they were rewarded handsomely.

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01-01-2007, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzie View Post
With a few Lindros threads popping up recently, I was curious as to why San Jose didn't get the first overall pick in the 1991 entry draft.

I remember reading a story about the reasoning, but for the life of me I cannot recall it or its details, was hoping someone else would know why San Jose was moved to second.

Following the normal NHL course of events, San Jose should have drafted first, but I know it had something to do with Sanjose/Tampa expansion at the time.

If San Jose had been awarded the first pick, as it appears they really should have been, do you think Eric Lindros would of reported to an 'expansion' team?, or forced a trade yet again?.

Lindros and his camp originally mentioned that Quebec didn't want to win, or its ownership didn't want to, maybe it was a political smoke screen, as to not offend the frensh, I don't know.

Quebec tanked in the 90/91 season and they were rewarded handsomely.
I think it had to do with the fact that the Sharks/North Stars debacle was resolved AFTER the 1990-1991 season had already started. Altho San Jose was techically an expansion team, the Gunds were ramming for the team to start 1 year ahead of schedule. (They were suppossed to start with Tampa Bay and Ottawa the next year)). The NHL was afraid to alter the amateur draft rules once the season had started as it might have lead to lawsuits as it would have been a change in policy. I believe the expansion Sharks had to concede the first over-all pick as a concession to starting a year early.It was of course magnified as it was the Lindros draft year.
I think the above covers it but I may be wrong about some of the points
but for sure the Nordique purposely tanked the season which eventually lead to the draft lottery system for the top 5 picks.
ps. Lindros thing was Quebec was NOT an anti French thing as he would have gone to Montreal, it was a complete lack of faith in the Nordique management and the lack of big market status of Quebec City. (Lindros actually would have signed a 1 year contract with Quebec, IF they promised to trade him after 1 year so as NOT to embarass them, they refused) And for the 10,000th time, Lindros was NOT the first player ranked #1 in the draft to publically refuse to report to a team, nor was he the last. This draft every-year is ripe with agents jockeying for where their clients wish to play. Lindros has paid a very high price for his decisions over the years and has been slagged unmercifully for things OTHER players had already done !!!


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01-01-2007, 09:43 AM
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I think it had to do with the fact that the Sharks/North Stars debacle was resolved AFTER the 1990-1991 season had already started. Altho San Jose was techically an expansion team, the Gunds were ramming for the team to start 1 year ahead of schedule. (They were suppossed to start with Tampa Bay and Ottawa the next year)). The NHL was afraid to alter the amateur draft rules once the season had started as it might have lead to lawsuits as it would have been a change in policy. I believe the expansion Sharks had to concede the first over-all pick as a concession to starting a year early.It was of course magnified as it was the Lindros draft year.
I think the above covers it but I may be wrong about some of the points
but for sure the Nordique purposely tanked the season which eventually lead to the draft lottery system for the top 5 picks.
ps. Lindros thing was Quebec was NOT an anti French thing as he would have gone to Montreal, it was a complete lack of faith in the Nordique management and the lack of big market status of Quebec City. (Lindros actually would have signed a 1 year contract with Quebec, IF they promised to trade him after 1 year so as NOT to embarass them, they refused) And for the 10,000th time, Lindros was NOT the first player ranked #1 in the draft to publically refuse to report to a team, nor was he the last. This draft every-year is ripe with agents jockeying for where their clients wish to play. Lindros has paid a very high price for his decisions over the years and has been slagged unmercifully for things OTHER players had already done !!!
I don't judge someone based on one mistake, but the reason Lindros didn't go to Quebec was because he was an arrogant punk assed 18 year old.

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01-01-2007, 09:45 AM
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12# Peter Bondra
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Funny how everybody remembers how Lindros refused to sign and nobody remembers how Mario refused to put on the PIT jersey at the Draft.

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01-01-2007, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzie View Post
With a few Lindros threads popping up recently, I was curious as to why San Jose didn't get the first overall pick in the 1991 entry draft.

I remember reading a story about the reasoning, but for the life of me I cannot recall it or its details, was hoping someone else would know why San Jose was moved to second.

Following the normal NHL course of events, San Jose should have drafted first, but I know it had something to do with Sanjose/Tampa expansion at the time.

If San Jose had been awarded the first pick, as it appears they really should have been, do you think Eric Lindros would of reported to an 'expansion' team?, or forced a trade yet again?.

Lindros and his camp originally mentioned that Quebec didn't want to win, or its ownership didn't want to, maybe it was a political smoke screen, as to not offend the frensh, I don't know.

Quebec tanked in the 90/91 season and they were rewarded handsomely.
Because the NHL board of governors set the expansion rules, they said that San Jose could not have 1st pick. They felt it was better to give Quebec - a team that had struggled for a long time - the first pick than to a team that just started. They were protecting their own.

Lindros was a complete a$$. He didn't want to go to a "small" Canadian city and he didn't want to play on a last place team. Karma got him in the end.

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01-01-2007, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 12# Peter Bondra View Post
Funny how everybody remembers how Lindros refused to sign and nobody remembers how Mario refused to put on the PIT jersey at the Draft.
I remember that quite well and I hated Mario for a long time because of it. To this day he is nowhere near my favorite player but my hate for him has tempered a little.

Whining about the 1989 Hart really made him sound like a jackass as well.

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01-01-2007, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 12# Peter Bondra View Post
Funny how everybody remembers how Lindros refused to sign and nobody remembers how Mario refused to put on the PIT jersey at the Draft.
Funny that you decided to bring up Mario for no good reason.

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01-01-2007, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Transplanted Caper View Post
I don't judge someone based on one mistake, but the reason Lindros didn't go to Quebec was because he was an arrogant punk assed 18 year old.

Exactly. He pulled the same crap in junior hockey.

The guy was a complete a$$.

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01-01-2007, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 12# Peter Bondra View Post
Funny how everybody remembers how Lindros refused to sign and nobody remembers how Mario refused to put on the PIT jersey at the Draft.
I remember reading about that as a kid. Took me by complete surprise. It's certainly not talked about all that often in the mainstream.

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01-01-2007, 10:32 AM
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I love how people judge a teenager as if his parents had nothing to do with it. The guy was being fawned over and put on a pedestal from an early age and constantly being told he was the best. Not to mention that his parents are completely psycho. It's easy for people to judge when they don't have to go through that or don't have kids who go through that.

So what if he didn't want to play for the Nords. He had his reasons. He wasn't the first player to do something like this and he certainly won't be the last. As somebody here mentioned, supposedly he tried to work out a number of possible solutions with the Nords, but they refused all of them and instead chose to trade him. They got a great return and Lindros got to play elsewhere, it was win-win.

The Nords were also a complete joke at that time, as evidenced by the fact that they traded Lindros to 2 teams at the same time and needed an arbitrator to sort out the mess.

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01-01-2007, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Transplanted Caper View Post
I remember reading about that as a kid. Took me by complete surprise. It's certainly not talked about all that often in the mainstream.
Lemieux's refusal was due to problems with ongoing contract negotiations with Pittsburgh (he wanted $1 million/year, the club wasn't ready to pay that much), not because he wanted out of the city/region. On the contrary, he happily committed himself to the team once they broke the contract impasse less than two weeks after draft day (and of course he eventually ended up spending his entire career in Pittsburgh). These circumstances were very different from those surrounding Lindros' draft.

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01-01-2007, 10:48 AM
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The answer is quite simple. When the NHL set up the expansion rules for that season the new team was awarded the 2nd overall pick from the very beginning. It was set so an existing team would get the 1st overall. The expansion team never had a chance at the 1st overall.

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01-01-2007, 11:07 AM
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I love how people judge a teenager as if his parents had nothing to do with it. The guy was being fawned over and put on a pedestal from an early age and constantly being told he was the best. Not to mention that his parents are completely psycho. It's easy for people to judge when they don't have to go through that or don't have kids who go through that.

So what if he didn't want to play for the Nords. He had his reasons. He wasn't the first player to do something like this and he certainly won't be the last. As somebody here mentioned, supposedly he tried to work out a number of possible solutions with the Nords, but they refused all of them and instead chose to trade him. They got a great return and Lindros got to play elsewhere, it was win-win.

The Nords were also a complete joke at that time, as evidenced by the fact that they traded Lindros to 2 teams at the same time and needed an arbitrator to sort out the mess.
And that is why he is hated by many hockey fans. He thought he was bigger than the game and he wanted to destroy the integrity of the draft to suit his own purposes. In hockey, that is called being a jackass.

Gretzky got on a plane and didn't know if he would end up in Winnipeg or Edmonton to play. Crosby was fine with Pittsburgh and Ovechkin was fine in Washington.

Parents or not, Lindros was an adult and made a very poor decision. He is branded for life because of that selfish attitude.

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01-01-2007, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Midnight View Post
Lemieux's refusal was due to problems with ongoing contract negotiations with Pittsburgh (he wanted $1 million/year, the club wasn't ready to pay that much), not because he wanted out of the city/region. On the contrary, he happily committed himself to the team once they broke the contract impasse less than two weeks after draft day (and of course he eventually ended up spending his entire career in Pittsburgh). These circumstances were very different from those surrounding Lindros' draft.
Same poop, different pile. Greed is no reason to disrespect the team that drafts you. Very unprofessional. No class with a move like that.

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01-01-2007, 11:11 AM
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The answer is quite simple. When the NHL set up the expansion rules for that season the new team was awarded the 2nd overall pick from the very beginning. It was set so an existing team would get the 1st overall. The expansion team never had a chance at the 1st overall.
Yep. And it was only because they knew it was Lindros draft year. In the next two drafts they went back to giving the #1 to the expansion teams.

Quote:
Lindros and his camp originally mentioned that Quebec didn't want to win, or its ownership didn't want to, maybe it was a political smoke screen, as to not offend the frensh, I don't know.
The French media tried to make it an English/French political issue, just like they did whenever Pat Burns benched a Francophone player in Montreal. It wasn`t one.

Everybody needs to get over it. I didn`t agree with his decision, but what Craig MacTavish did was much worse and he never got any criticism from the media.

A 17 year old taking advice from his parents about his future. Oh the horror!!!

In 1991, the Canada Cup had a game in Quebec City and the media really tried to play up the Lindros angle since it was so soon after the draft. However, most of the fans cheered heartily for Team Canada, including Lindros. Very classy move by the Quebec fans.

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01-01-2007, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 12# Peter Bondra View Post
Funny how everybody remembers how Lindros refused to sign and nobody remembers how Mario refused to put on the PIT jersey at the Draft.
I didn't forget that Mario did that. It's just that no one brought it up on this thread since the thread was about Lindros.

I still think he didn't put it on because he knew he wouldn't have looked as cool standing next to Muller in that awesome devil jersey.

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01-01-2007, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ogopogo View Post
And that is why he is hated by many hockey fans. He thought he was bigger than the game and he wanted to destroy the integrity of the draft to suit his own purposes. In hockey, that is called being a jackass.

Gretzky got on a plane and didn't know if he would end up in Winnipeg or Edmonton to play. Crosby was fine with Pittsburgh and Ovechkin was fine in Washington.

Parents or not, Lindros was an adult and made a very poor decision. He is branded for life because of that selfish attitude.
And to think that his career might have turned out totally different with the move to Colorado and playing with the likes of Joe Sakic, Owen Nolan, Mats Sundin (for a bit).

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01-01-2007, 12:18 PM
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12# Peter Bondra
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Originally Posted by #1rezniy View Post
Funny that you decided to bring up Mario for no good reason.
I thought it was a relevant post as PIT also tanked (I heard some rumours about that) and Mario was the big prize and also didnt want to play there. There were some similarities.

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01-01-2007, 12:21 PM
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And to think that his career might have turned out totally different with the move to Colorado and playing with the likes of Joe Sakic, Owen Nolan, Mats Sundin (for a bit).
I think Sundin would have stayed cause Lindros would have been the physical force on the Avs.

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01-01-2007, 02:35 PM
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I remember that quite well and I hated Mario for a long time because of it. To this day he is nowhere near my favorite player but my hate for him has tempered a little.

Whining about the 1989 Hart really made him sound like a jackass as well.
Don't know why you bought up the 89 hart in this thread but Mario had a legit complaint. When gretz wins the Art ross he gets the Hart. In 89 Mario wins the Ross but gretz still gets the Hart.

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01-01-2007, 02:47 PM
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Don't know why you bought up the 89 hart in this thread but Mario had a legit complaint. When gretz wins the Art ross he gets the Hart. In 89 Mario wins the Ross but gretz still gets the Hart.
Might be a legitimate complaint. But one he shouldn't have made. An older wiser Mario wouldn't complain about being shafted for the Hart. The young Mario did complain.

One thing for sure, Mario grew more as a person during his career than any other player I can think of. He went from being an uber talented, kinda spoiled, kinda selfish, kinda lazy player to one of the best leaders and great ambassadors of the game. On the ice he went from a talented individual player to one of the biggest winners and team players ever.

You have to respect Mario a great deal.

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01-01-2007, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 12# Peter Bondra View Post
I thought it was a relevant post as PIT also tanked (I heard some rumours about that) and Mario was the big prize and also didnt want to play there. There were some similarities.
Obviously he didnt refuse to play in Pittsburgh. Sounded to me like you were just taking a shot at a player you didnt like just for kicks. Perhaps I misunderstood your intent.

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01-01-2007, 04:18 PM
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When Anaheim and Florida came in, didn't they get the #4, and 5 pick???

And it was Paul Kariya, and Rob Niedermayer.

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01-01-2007, 05:18 PM
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When Anaheim and Florida came in, didn't they get the #4, and 5 pick???

And it was Paul Kariya, and Rob Niedermayer.
That's right. I forgot about that. It may have been because with those five teams coming to the league in that short a span, they wanted to make sure they all had a chance to draft near the top. Florida and Anaheim were guaranteed the top two picks in the `94 draft regardless of where they finshed in `93-`94.

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01-01-2007, 08:45 PM
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Don't know why you bought up the 89 hart in this thread but Mario had a legit complaint. When gretz wins the Art ross he gets the Hart. In 89 Mario wins the Ross but gretz still gets the Hart.

No NHL player with any kind of class whines about not winning an individual award. That was very distasteful.

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