I posted this in another thread, but it related here too.
I dont think people here realise the depth we have at goalie. Sure, we dont have a star #1 guy but we've been drafting goalies every year and we've stumbled on a few good ones. Remember, we drafted Riku Helenius 15th overall last draft and he is supposed to be developping into a legit #1 guy in the NHL.
He got injured last year and I know it takes at least 4 years for a rookie goalie to develop, but we cant be worried about giving up Ramo for good players simply because we would have another teams quality #1 goalie for 4-5 years until Helenius is ready. And not that I think SJ is a good option (it just doesnt seem like they are looking at a trade) but that goes for any team that we are likely to get a goalie from (weather its MTL, BUF or anyone).
Boutin just got AHL goalie of the month....he has shown he can be even better than Ramo and we have Coleman/Cey who are projected NHL backups. And dont forget Vasily Koshechkin who is a top Russian goaltender right now and another who is projected NHL starter (or at least good backup). IF we do make a trade and unload Denis, we shouldnt be affraid of giving up a goalie prospect because the depth.
And my whole take on this "trade situation", we NEED to unload one of the "big three". I dont care if Vinny is "your favorite player". Doing whats right for the team is getting depth and prospects...we have to look at the future. I love Vinny as much as the next guy, but we ALL know we arent going anywhere this season (maybe not even the playoffs) and with the way this team is going with the cap and the lack of depth on offense, the horrific D and without a true #1 goalie, it seems to me we should start trading guys that make 7 million a year for 2-3 guys who make 2.5 million each because we may not see playoffs for years.
The new NHL is all about depth...Carolina had it last year, Buffalo/Anaheim have it this year. Those teams have 4 lines capable of scoring, 6 D that arent the caliber of Richardson/Janik/Sarich/Pratt and a star goalie capable of making key saves. We arent going anywhere guys...not until Feaster makes something happen.
Start with the coaches, then fan out?
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Actually, I was talking to Dawn77 about this a few hours ago (well, as much as I can talk -- I hardly have a voice), and we are both agreed about the lines...wearing down the top 2, not giving the bottom 2 a chance, and an interesting point that she brought up was: What's the point of having/bringing in physical players (Roy, Tarnasty, etc) when they spend more time riding pine or in the box than on the ice?
Just what exactly are Torts/Rammer playing at?
Way I see it, it feels like a cluster you-know-what...
Last edited by No-Twitch Tabitha: 01-04-2007 at 03:26 PM.
Start with the coaches, then fan out?
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Actually, I was talking to Dawn77 about this a few hours ago (well, as much as I can talk -- I hardly have a voice), and we are both agreed about the lines...wearing down the top 2, not giving the bottom 2 a chance, and an interesting point that she brought up was: What's the point of having/bringing in physical players (Roy, Tarnasty, etc) when they spend more time riding pine or in the box than on the ice?
Just what exactly are Torts/Rammer playing at?
Way I see it, it feels like a cluster you-know-what...
And another thing.............what is with the constant shifting of lines. These guys never know who they are playing with from one shift to the next. It's some serious ****ed up **** going on.
Seriously, he had Marty, Vinny and Perrin together and they were awesome. So what's he do? Split'um up. Puts Marty back with Richie and the Zamboni driver to see if Richie can finally wake up. Perrin stays with Vinny for awhile, then goes to Richie's line. Prospal and Feds make their return to Vinny's line. Feds scores a couple, but not enough so it's back to line 3 with Craig and Alexeev. Then Alexeev scores a goal so we'll try him with Vinny. Craig hasn't scored a pp goal in awhile so he rides pine while Dan Boyle and Richie take turns turing the puck over at the blueline but Goddamnit, they will have their PP time even though they are both over paid and suck. Alexeev hasn't scored a goal on Vinny's line in the 38 seconds he gets a night so it's back to line 4 with you, loser. Now you get to play with King Wraparound and a guy who got cut. That's what you get for not scoring in under a minute. Oh, and let's not forget the tough guy Roy who has had 1 fight since he's been back. Why only 1 fight? Well he only gets 12 seconds a night because Marty and Vinny have to have 40 minutes and Richie gets 30 and Danny (can't forget about his awesomness) gets about 35. So although Roy did start his one fight this year in his first game back and did it on his first shift, I'm sure he was punished for being too "physical". Everyone following "Tort's Line Explosions 101"? There will be a test.
Got it? Now this is the system and it will ****ing work!!!!!!!
Next lesson "How To Destroy A Perfectly Good Goaltender In Less Than Half A Season"
Oh, and let's not forget the tough guy Roy who has had 1 fight since he's been back. Why only 1 fight? Well he only gets 12 seconds a night because Marty and Vinny have to have 40 minutes and Richie gets 30 and Danny (can't forget about his awesomness) gets about 35. So although Roy did start his one fight this year in his first game back and did it on his first shift, I'm sure he was punished for being too "physical".
Hmmmm.. Where did I hear that his low amount of minutes would affect his ability to set a tone?
I am sorry... but he is going to be playing such low amount of minutes that his "physical presence" isn't going to mean much. We need someone who can set a tone and play decent minutes. That isn't Andre Roy...I am saying he won't have sufficient minutes (with good reason) to make the difference you all see.
Thats the problem though, anyone who sets the tone in a physical way will not get a chance to get decent minutes, because that is not part of the "system" under this coaching staff. To this coaching staff, setting the tone equals a stick check.
Exactly. There are plenty of other teams in the NHL who have physical players that log 5-6 minutes of ice time and guess what? Those teams actually have "elite" players who have the space to make those spectactular plays because the other teams know that the tough guy has no problems coming off the bench to remind them. I'm tired of Torts. His system doesn't work. Obviously Dan Boyle is such an offensive wonder they ought to just put him one the King Wraparound line. Tim is too old and slow for the game. They need to keep a line together and leave it alone. Other teams have figured this out, hell, my son's squirt team has the same lines and d-partners. Rammer isn't getting the job done on the PP or PK or D for that matter. Instead of adapting our style to different teams, we keep the same crap up which allows the other team to just try and clear it along the boards because we all know Boyle/Richards aren't going to be covering the point. I say screw the coaching staff, fire them all and get someone knew in here. Torts rants are falling on deaf ears, his system is outdated as MOST of the NHL has figured it out and we're not really a surprise anymore and for god sake's, get some freaking uniformity in the damn team. Keep the same lines. If a player is stinking it up, then keep him on the same line, and let his teammates help him.
Last edited by Dawn77: 01-05-2007 at 05:55 AM.
Reason: spelling
I love you so much Tyler! You are my ****ing hero! I am in awe of your master hockeyisms! Please tell us what you would do to fix this team. I know Torts is dying to read your fixes since you haven't been around in so long. Please Tyler, I'm holding my breath! Not.
Don't flatter yourself too much. That is never a good thing.
Seriously, he had Marty, Vinny and Perrin together and they were awesome. So what's he do? Split'um up. Puts Marty back with Richie and the Zamboni driver to see if Richie can finally wake up. Perrin stays with Vinny for awhile, then goes to Richie's line. Prospal and Feds make their return to Vinny's line. Feds scores a couple, but not enough so it's back to line 3 with Craig and Alexeev. Then Alexeev scores a goal so we'll try him with Vinny. Craig hasn't scored a pp goal in awhile so he rides pine while Dan Boyle and Richie take turns turing the puck over at the blueline but Goddamnit, they will have their PP time even though they are both over paid and suck. Alexeev hasn't scored a goal on Vinny's line in the 38 seconds he gets a night so it's back to line 4 with you, loser. Now you get to play with King Wraparound and a guy who got cut. That's what you get for not scoring in under a minute. Oh, and let's not forget the tough guy Roy who has had 1 fight since he's been back. Why only 1 fight? Well he only gets 12 seconds a night because Marty and Vinny have to have 40 minutes and Richie gets 30 and Danny (can't forget about his awesomness) gets about 35. So although Roy did start his one fight this year in his first game back and did it on his first shift, I'm sure he was punished for being too "physical". Everyone following "Tort's Line Explosions 101"? There will be a test.
Got it? Now this is the system and it will ****ing work!!!!!!!
Next lesson "How To Destroy A Perfectly Good Goaltender In Less Than Half A Season"
Like I said, no chance to gel. Torts had the French Connection, Part 2 and he splits them up. Effective! How in the world can the lines play effectively together if they keep getting shuffled. And what the hell was the point of bringing up players and pulling 'em off waivers just to have them ride the pine? How about going back in history with rules and just dressing 6-10 players? The way it looks, the only people who should dress should be VL4, B19, Martie, V20, Feds, DB22, and the tragedy twins. Maybe Perrin if Torts can handle 2 short forwards without hurting himself. Everyone else, don't even bother to show up. The starting goalie will be a loveseat.
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Well said, Dawn77.
Just another thought I had the other day about all the line combinations changing all the time.
Time and time again I have heard Feaster and Torts say there is no knee jerk reactions here and no rash moves. But don't you think changing line combos on a shift by shift basis is a knee jerk reaction???
We were best when we had stable lines. I know he wants to seperate Marty and Vinny to try and get 2 lines going but no one else seems to be doing much unless they have atleast one of those guys on their line and most times it takes them both.
Just another thought I had the other day about all the line combinations changing all the time.
Time and time again I have heard Feaster and Torts say there is no knee jerk reactions here and no rash moves. But don't you think changing line combos on a shift by shift basis is a knee jerk reaction???
We were best when we had stable lines. I know he wants to seperate Marty and Vinny to try and get 2 lines going but no one else seems to be doing much unless they have atleast one of those guys on their line and most times it takes them both.
Just another thought I had the other day about all the line combinations changing all the time.
Time and time again I have heard Feaster and Torts say there is no knee jerk reactions here and no rash moves. But don't you think changing line combos on a shift by shift basis is a knee jerk reaction???
We were best when we had stable lines. I know he wants to seperate Marty and Vinny to try and get 2 lines going but no one else seems to be doing much unless they have atleast one of those guys on their line and most times it takes them both.
Just my thoughts
Excellent post. I had to laugh out loud on Sunday when I think it was Rick that said that Torts was going to put Marty and Vinny back together again because they were good together. My exact comment to my friend was "D'uh Torts!!" I could have told him weeks ago it's better to have them together than apart this season.
Case in point, both Montreal games (home and away) where Vinny's scoring streak was "broken" were also games where Torts spilt Vinny and Marty up.
