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Old
01-03-2007, 12:36 PM
  #1
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Show Smyth the $!

Because he is $.

Smyth is the top GPG scorer in the league right now with 20 goals in 29 games=.690

The next closest is Ovechkin, St Louis, both at 25 in 40 = .625

Smyth has been on fire post cba. 63 goals in 123 games for .490

This is not even considering everything else the versatile Smyth brings to the team.

Not to mention Smyth can be put on a line with any two players and still produce and that he is excellent at working with youth. What more do we need?

Theres is no player on this club close to being as indespensible as Smytty. (Stoll if anybody)

Yet the offer on the table is for 4m Smyth COULD have likely been signed for 5 on the dot for however many multiple years when he wanted to get the deal done this summer.

Now whats it gonna take? Price is going up EVERY day.

Lets be frank. Klowe seemingly gambled that Smyth performance this year would fall off but its gone into the stratosphere. Kev will now have to pay for bluechip stock.

Somebody explain how this made any sense?

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01-03-2007, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Because he is $.

Smyth is the top GPG scorer in the league right now with 20 goals in 29 games=.690

The next closest is Ovechkin, St Louis, both at 25 in 40 = .625

Smyth has been on fire post cba. 63 goals in 123 games for .490

This is not even considering everything else the versatile Smyth brings to the team.

Not to mention Smyth can be put on a line with any two players and still produce and that he is excellent at working with youth. What more do we need?

Theres is no player on this club close to being as indespensible as Smytty. (Stoll if anybody)

Yet the offer on the table is for 4m Smyth COULD have likely been signed for 5 on the dot for however many multiple years when he wanted to get the deal done this summer.

Now whats it gonna take? Price is going up EVERY day.

Lets be frank. Klowe seemingly gambled that Smyth performance this year would fall off but its gone into the stratosphere. Kev will now have to pay for bluechip stock.

Somebody explain how this made any sense?
This discussion has come up earlier this season and most of the posters were against overpaying Ryan Smyth to the tune of 5 million when I suggested we should sign him for that.

I was told Lowe has already overpaid for many free agents and I was out to lunch when I suggested he was going to command that and more on the open market.

Most of you said, trade him if he demands 5 million because it was too much, you would be angry if Lowe signed him for 5 million a year.

Yes I believe Lowe should have offered him that and I one of the few that has had that stance from the beginning!

Replacement, you may have made that suggestion as well but IMO if you were a poster that was against that signing earlier, then you would have made the same mistake Lowe made.

The majority of posters were against giving Smyth 5 million. The majority of posters were mistaken.

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01-03-2007, 12:54 PM
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Smyth will fetch 5+, probably closer to 6, and deservedly so. He is having a great season. He was the only player who really showed up to the Calgary game on NYE. This guy is the Oilers. I couldn't see him in different silks.

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01-03-2007, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyaddict101 View Post
This discussion has come up earlier this season and most of the posters were against overpaying Ryan Smyth to the tune of 5 million when I suggested we should sign him for that.

I was told Lowe has already overpaid for many free agents and I was out to lunch when I suggested he was going to command that and more on the open market.

Most of you said, trade him if he demands 5 million because it was too much, you would be angry if Lowe signed him for 5 million a year.

Yes I believe Lowe should have offered him that and I one of the few that has had that stance from the beginning!

Replacement, you may have made that suggestion as well but IMO if you were a poster that was against that signing earlier, then you would have made the same mistake Lowe made.

The majority of posters were against giving Smyth 5 million. The majority of posters were mistaken.
No I've been saying all along Smyth is worth the money and its one of the things that prompted the other Klowe overpays thread.

I very specifically signalled out who the overpays were and who weren't, and argued Smyth SHOULD get big bucks.

I raised the other overpays as an issue as soon as Staios was signed and because Lowe still had the most important signing left. Smyth.

My worst fear as stated throughout is that Klowe has picked THIS player to play hardball with.

Whats with that?

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01-03-2007, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by guzzy View Post
Smyth will fetch 5+, probably closer to 6, and deservedly so. He is having a great season. He was the only player who really showed up to the Calgary game on NYE. This guy is the Oilers. I couldn't see him in different silks.
Yep, my own take is its gone from 5-6 easy as Kevin dawdled.

Kudos to Smyth that he's playing full tilt instead of "work to rule" right now although I suspect Klowe just might've had that carrot in mind too but is now shocked that Ryan gobbled the carrot!

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01-03-2007, 01:01 PM
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lowe has not been playing hardball, he has been signing guys who would agree to reasonable extensions. Smyth is like Pisani where he is ufa and that is a whole different scenario.

IMO, someone will be offering Smyth 6 mill for a 5 year deal. I am not convinced that is a good deal but that is what it is going to take to sign him. I honestly do not beleive that Lowe will pay that much.

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01-03-2007, 01:01 PM
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The biggest thing over-looked here is that the post-CBA NHL will take much less of a toll on a guy like Ryan. I wasn't in favor of signing him for $5 million or more, but if he keeps this up, will we have any choice??? It'll be either that or we'll have to deal him or let him walk.

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01-03-2007, 01:09 PM
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This thread is a perfect example of the hypocritical crap that is permeating the boards of late. Lowe could have signed Smyth to a 4 year, $5 million contract earlier in the year and he would have been accused of over-paying yet another player out of desperation (a la Pisani and Staios). He chooses to wait this time rather than handing out the big extension right away and he's accused of being too passive in regards to contract talks.

I don't mind Lowe's patience with Smyth's contract talks, the guy is a veteran and I'm of the opinion that a slightly better offensive season isn't going to impact his free agency value as much as some seem to feel (unless he continues to score at this ridiculous pace which he won't - his shooting percentage is clicking along at 21% right now).

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01-03-2007, 01:23 PM
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I didn't realize bandy legs was THAT good!

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01-03-2007, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
This thread is a perfect example of the hypocritical crap that is permeating the boards of late. Lowe could have signed Smyth to a 4 year, $5 million contract earlier in the year and he would have been accused of over-paying yet another player out of desperation (a la Pisani and Staios). He chooses to wait this time rather than handing out the big extension right away and he's accused of being too passive in regards to contract talks.

I don't mind Lowe's patience with Smyth's contract talks, the guy is a veteran and I'm of the opinion that a slightly better offensive season isn't going to impact his free agency value as much as some seem to feel (unless he continues to score at this ridiculous pace which he won't - his shooting percentage is clicking along at 21% right now).
I wouldn't exactly call this hypocritical crap.

To me, it is the discussion of out of these players...

Staios
Pisani
Smyth

who would you play hardball with? Pisani isn't essential to this team, Staios right now is, so out of the three, Pisani would have been the one I targeted to get the good discount from.

Now Lowe is going to pay someone exactly what they are worth. And although close to market value, or a little over, some other contracts are going to be a little painful when he knows that Smyth is going to get paid. Smyth knows he is going to get paid, and the fanbase wants to keep the player.

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01-03-2007, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
This thread is a perfect example of the hypocritical crap that is permeating the boards of late.
*Bulldroppings!* Its how YOU have preferred to view my nuanced argument about the contracts. I spell it right out in the first post in that thread. But feel free to infer inconsistency

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=319917

Its frustrating when people WANT to think I'm saying something else. Feel free to comprehend what I am saying and if you don't fully then please ask more rather than jumping to conclusion.

Quote:
Lowe could have signed Smyth to a 4 year, $5 million contract earlier in the year and he would have been accused of over-paying yet another player out of desperation (a la Pisani and Staios). He chooses to wait this time rather than handing out the big extension right away and he's accused of being too passive in regards to contract talks.
But not by me which is a pretty important distinction being that this is directed at me. If you can't distinguish that I am differentiating the relative value and importance of the signings I can't help you with that, we won't agree. Essentially your inference based on what you think I'm saying possibly has something to do to with a radically different view on the relative worth of Smyth/Hemsky/Horcoff/Pisani/Staios, to this club. We differ majorly on that.

Quote:
I don't mind Lowe's patience with Smyth's contract talks, the guy is a veteran and I'm of the opinion that a slightly better offensive season isn't going to impact his free agency value as much as some seem to feel (unless he continues to score at this ridiculous pace which he won't - his shooting percentage is clicking along at 21% right now).
Even at the .49 clip he's established for close to two seasons now this puts him at 40+ goals this season.

edit; just so the poster who I do respect doesn't think all those ********* meant I was swearing at him


Last edited by Replacement: 01-03-2007 at 02:21 PM.
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01-03-2007, 01:38 PM
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Smyth, Stoll, Smid and Hemmer are the core. Must keep at whatever the cost.

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01-03-2007, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
But not by me which is a pretty important distinction being that this is directed at me.
My comments were directed more at the board in general than at you as a specific poster. However, I do find it hilarious that this post pops up now after a Smyth hot-streak. I have no idea what your thoughts were on a Smyth extension prior to the start of the season (when that $4 million offer was made I believe) but I'm guessing you weren't praying Lowe would offer Smyth $5 million. Sorry if you took my post as a slam against you, it definitely comes across more antagonistic than I intended it to.

In any event, Lowe definitely had the choice to try and hammer out a contract prior to the start of the season or to let Smyth play the year out and see how he did. He did this with Horcoff and ended up paying him through the teeth. He waited on Pisani and ended up having to give him big bucks as well. In contrast, he took a gamble on the contract of Bergeron a few years ago and it worked out well (and he's now taking a similar gamble on the long-term contract with Hemsky).

Which way he should have gone with Smyth is up for debate but I tend to side with Lowe on this one. A lot of Smyth's points last season came from a Chris Pronger-driven powerplay and I'm guessing Lowe thought Smyth's goals would suffer without #44 on the point. That's not proving to be true so far but the season is still on half-way through and I still wouldn't be shocked if Smyth doesn't crack 40 goals this year.

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01-03-2007, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Messier View Post
I wouldn't exactly call this hypocritical crap.

To me, it is the discussion of out of these players...

Staios
Pisani
Smyth

who would you play hardball with? Pisani isn't essential to this team, Staios right now is, so out of the three, Pisani would have been the one I targeted to get the good discount from.

Now Lowe is going to pay someone exactly what they are worth. And although close to market value, or a little over, some other contracts are going to be a little painful when he knows that Smyth is going to get paid. Smyth knows he is going to get paid, and the fanbase wants to keep the player.
My comments were more in regard to this section of the post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Replacement
Yet the offer on the table is for 4m Smyth COULD have likely been signed for 5 on the dot for however many multiple years when he wanted to get the deal done this summer.

Now whats it gonna take? Price is going up EVERY day.

Lets be frank. Klowe seemingly gambled that Smyth performance this year would fall off but its gone into the stratosphere. Kev will now have to pay for bluechip stock.

Somebody explain how this made any sense?
These threads tend to have a strange way of appearing after the player in question goes on a hot streak/goes on a slump. I shouldn't have called out Replacement but I don't remember many threads in the off-season clamoring for Lowe to sign Smyth to a $5 million extension (I do remember a number of outraged fans arguing that anything over $4.5 million was far too much for Smyth).

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01-03-2007, 02:02 PM
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On Hockey Night in Canada I definately heard Lowe say on After Hours that he would be making a real serious offer to Smyth in the next month or so. Unless your Smyth's agent I don't know what good bargaining here is going to help. The team has always tried to take care of their core guys and will be in the running I believe unless the market gets way too hot for Smyth. As you guys have mentioned he already overpaid slightly for loyalty with Pisani and maybe Staios but not way out to lunch there either. So relax and the business will be taken care of.

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01-03-2007, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
My comments were directed more at the board in general than at you as a specific poster. However, I do find it hilarious that this post pops up now after a Smyth hot-streak. I have no idea what your thoughts were on a Smyth extension prior to the start of the season (when that $4 million offer was made I believe) but I'm guessing you weren't praying Lowe would offer Smyth $5 million. Sorry if you took my post as a slam against you, it definitely comes across more antagonistic than I intended it to.

In any event, Lowe definitely had the choice to try and hammer out a contract prior to the start of the season or to let Smyth play the year out and see how he did. He did this with Horcoff and ended up paying him through the teeth. He waited on Pisani and ended up having to give him big bucks as well. In contrast, he took a gamble on the contract of Bergeron a few years ago and it worked out well (and he's now taking a similar gamble on the long-term contract with Hemsky).

Which way he should have gone with Smyth is up for debate but I tend to side with Lowe on this one. A lot of Smyth's points last season came from a Chris Pronger-driven powerplay and I'm guessing Lowe thought Smyth's goals would suffer without #44 on the point. That's not proving to be true so far but the season is still on half-way through and I still wouldn't be shocked if Smyth doesn't crack 40 goals this year.
Thanks for responding. This is a busy board and its impossible to follow everything but I've been all over the New Improved Smytty ever since 2005 training camp. Oct. 2005 I was waxing at length about the improvement in smyths scoring touch which was immediatly evident. The guy worked hard on it and has continued. Several threads commending Smytty by me and not time specific.

I'm resolutely a Smyth backer here and believe this is a high worth player. You can check my record on that.

But more specifically check my response in post #55 in the other thread which maybe answers some more questions.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=319917&page=3

We won't agree on Hemmer. I think THAT contract topped up shoulda been in Smyttys mailbox TOO.

Ryans's earned it and I think will still deliver on it. As mentioned by BBO, and an important point, is that the new NHL is easier on Smytty

I could make a stronger case that Smyths #'s have less to do with linemates than Hemskys #'s. More of a sample size and consistency to demonstrate that.

In anycase going long term with Smytty doesn't seem to be a risk and is the way to go and I woulda done the 4 year 20M contract. Now its higher.

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01-03-2007, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Thanks for responding. This is a busy board and its impossible to follow everything but I've been all over the New Improved Smytty ever since 2005 training camp. Oct. 2005 I was waxing at length about the improvement in smyths scoring touch which was immediatly evident. The guy worked hard on it and has continued. Several threads commending Smytty by me and not time specific.

I'm resolutely a Smyth backer here and believe this is a high worth player. You can check my record on that.

But more specifically check my response in post #55 in the other thread which maybe answers some more questions.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=319917&page=3

We won't agree on Hemmer. I think THAT contract topped up shoulda been in Smyttys mailbox TOO.

Ryans's earned it and I think will still deliver on it. As mentioned by BBO, and an important point, is that the new NHL is easier on Smytty

I could make a stronger case that Smyths #'s have less to do with linemates than Hemskys #'s. More of a sample size and consistency to demonstrate that.

In anycase going long term with Smytty doesn't seem to be a risk and is the way to go and I woulda done the 4 year 20M contract. Now its higher.
I apologize, I did a quick search and noticed that you have been remarkably consistent in your staunch hyping of Smyth.

I'll be curious to see what Smyth ends up signing for, I felt at the beginning of the season that he was worth about $4.5 million on a multi-year contract (a little more than Brenden Morrow) but that could certainly change if Smyth continues scoring goals at such a prolific rate.

I still can't fault Lowe for deciding to wait on Smyth though, I entered the season with a feeling Smyth's goal total might suffer this season without Pronger shooting pucks on the powerplay and playing on a line away from Hemsky.

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01-03-2007, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
My comments were more in regard to this section of the post:


These threads tend to have a strange way of appearing after the player in question goes on a hot streak/goes on a slump. I shouldn't have called out Replacement but I don't remember many threads in the off-season clamoring for Lowe to sign Smyth to a $5 million extension (I do remember a number of outraged fans arguing that anything over $4.5 million was far too much for Smyth).
I think the simplest way to explain the apparent inconsistency is to say that my projections on Hemsky/Horc/Pisani this year was there would be a drop. I said as much re: Pisani, Horcoff before the season started. My feelings on the Hemsky plateau are obvious throughout.


I'll be the first to admit it If I'm wrong.

Smyth I had pegged as continuing production post pronger. All he requires is somebody getting the puck to the net. It doesn't have to be pretty(although Stolli's was the best seen this year IMO)

Hemsky benefiited more from Prongers precision breakout passes. Smyths game doesn't require pinpoint passing as much. Just get it up ice. Get it in the vicinity, He'll corral it.
Smyths game is more resilient.

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01-03-2007, 02:38 PM
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I fall into the camp that believes Lowe's gotta do all he can to keep Smyth. Stats or not, the guy IS the Edmonton Oilers.

That said, I don't think it's prudent for Lowe to open negotiations right now. You do it in the summer prior or wait till after the year is over.

It obviously didn't get done in the summer and I am sure that although Smyth would be drooling at the opportunity to break out negotiations right now because of how well he is playing, Lowe equally be cringing because why would he want to play that game on what is currently an unlevel field?

For all the accolades Smyth deserves, the hard reality is that he isn't going to keep up his current goal pace. Negotiating as if he is, is shooting yourself in the foot.

The one thing that I think both Lowe and Smyth have going for them is that if they have a hard time coming to an agreement over numbers, I think Smyth will give Lowe last crack should it come down to free agency offers, aslong as Lowe plays him straight leading up to that point.

I don't think Smyth is going to take a hometown discount, nor do I think he should have to, but I think both guys will be happy to pay what's deemed fair and it if takes a third team to set the number on July 1st, then so be it.

And then like Cerebral pointed out, all hell will break loose around here because of the inevitable 'Klowe overpayed' complaining.

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01-03-2007, 02:57 PM
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I know I'll be flamed mercilessly for this, but I have to admit that I'm a bit disappointed with Smyth. Where was all this amazing effort and production during his non-contract years? He's always been a great Oiler and worked his *** off, but his performance this season has gone above and beyond, and I can't help but conclude that his pending UFA status is driving it all. Yeah, yeah - he's hardly unique in that respect amongst soon-to-be-UFAs, but for some reason Smyth has had an aura of being above all that. I suppose he's mortal like the rest of us...

Something else to consider (and this is me just playing devil's advocate more than anything - I really do want him to be re-signed at nearly any cost): as much as we love him, Smyth is a 2nd tier star. All those years we were beat by Dallas, and didn't make the playoffs, Smyth was a very large part of the team. It was only once we acquired a truely elite superstar that we made some real noise. This isn't to belittle Smyth's contributions over the years, or to suggest that he alone was responsible for all or any of those disappointments, but is instead simply to make a point: Smyth is simply not a player that can carry a team on his back (during a non-contract year, anyway ), and should not necessarily be paid like one that can.

After all that... get it done, Kevin - I want to see Smytty retire as an Oiler.


Ok, flame away...

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01-03-2007, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by cfrancis View Post
Smyth, Stoll, Smid and Hemmer are the core. Must keep at whatever the cost.
Yes, maybe Roli and Sykora for the short term otherwise all the rest can be upgraded.

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01-03-2007, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
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All those years we were beat by Dallas, and didn't make the playoffs, Smyth was a very large part of the team. It was only once we acquired a truely elite superstar that we made some real noise. This isn't to belittle Smyth's contributions over the years, or to suggest that he alone was responsible for all or any of those disappointments, but is instead simply to make a point: Smyth is simply not a player that can carry a team on his back (during a non-contract year, anyway ), and should not necessarily be paid like one that can.
Don't forget, Smyth was also pretty young during those seasons. He was in his mid to early 20's, and there's very few players that age who are capable of doing those kinds of things.

For instance, Chris Pronger was never able to do those sort of things until he came to Edmonton...

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01-03-2007, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
No I've been saying all along Smyth is worth the money and its one of the things that prompted the other Klowe overpays thread.

I very specifically signalled out who the overpays were and who weren't, and argued Smyth SHOULD get big bucks.

I raised the other overpays as an issue as soon as Staios was signed and because Lowe still had the most important signing left. Smyth.

My worst fear as stated throughout is that Klowe has picked THIS player to play hardball with.

Whats with that?
I thought you might have been and I agree that Lowe did make a mistake here.

According to what he said on After Hours he will be making Smyth another offer in the next couple of weeks, it will be interesting to see what the offer is and Smyth's response.

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01-03-2007, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfrancis View Post
Smyth, Stoll, Smid and Hemmer are the core. Must keep at whatever the cost.
SMID?! I'd love to hear your reasoning behind this.

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01-03-2007, 03:40 PM
  #25
jadeddog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
SMID?! I'd love to hear your reasoning behind this.
ill handle this one....

it doesnt take a genius to tell that smid is going to be a *very* good defenceman in 3-4 years from now .... thats the reasoning behind it

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