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A plea for a modicum of decency.

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Old
01-04-2007, 02:10 AM
  #1
Hairball
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A plea for a modicum of decency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
I'm not even trying to clean this one up...

keep the insults out of the discussion guys.
So when I started posting here, the thing to do was to watch the boards for a while and get the feel of things first. The feel at the time was that there were a lot of knowledgeable posters here, and it was a place of great discussion and class. It was the best place on the web to discuss the Oilers. HF wasn't nearly as big back then. For about a year, I was able to read every single post in every single thread. I enjoyed it quite a lot.

Now that isn't to say that there weren't arguments. I remember an epic one between speeds and gretzky2kurri. It got very heated.

Anyway, HF is a different place now. People don't come here and respect the feel of the boards anymore. They don't come here with class and keep the discussions civil. I know I'm not the only one who feels this. There are a lot of really good posters that just don't come around here as often, if at all, anymore. That is a real shame. It takes away from the experience for all of us.

Now, I'm not going to claim that I like everyone's viewpoints, here. I am an optimist, and as such, find the rampant pessimism hard to swallow. Typically, I don't come on after a particularly stinging loss. It's too hard to read through threads at those times. I have in the past not liked posters, but as of yet have never blocked anyone that I can remember. I've been able to say my piece on several occasions, and a lot of the time, I respect the people I have a beef with, more, for having read their replies.

I know I don't post as much as some, or always have much to say (I tend not to say anything if what I think has already been said), but I feel like one of the old guard now. I still believe that HF is a great site and doesn't need to get out of hand like these things often do. It's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. I realize this has turned into somewhat of a soapbox rant, but the intent is a plea for decency. People will disagree. If we didn't, then there would be no discussion. Different opinions happen. Please realize this and deal with it. Please don't start insulting someone because you don't like what they're saying. It's frustrating to everyone else too. I would like to see HF regain some of the class that has been lost.

We can do this.

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Old
01-04-2007, 02:46 AM
  #2
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I know i haven't been here for too long, so i'm sure i missed all of what you are talking about. But i agree with everything you said about the disagreements, the dissing, the soapbox stuff...it's unreal how crazy these boards get after ONE loss, or after certain players have ONE bad game.

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Old
01-04-2007, 03:05 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairball View Post
So when I started posting here, the thing to do was to watch the boards for a while and get the feel of things first. The feel at the time was that there were a lot of knowledgeable posters here, and it was a place of great discussion and class. It was the best place on the web to discuss the Oilers. HF wasn't nearly as big back then. For about a year, I was able to read every single post in every single thread. I enjoyed it quite a lot.

Now that isn't to say that there weren't arguments. I remember an epic one between speeds and gretzky2kurri. It got very heated.

Anyway, HF is a different place now. People don't come here and respect the feel of the boards anymore. They don't come here with class and keep the discussions civil. I know I'm not the only one who feels this. There are a lot of really good posters that just don't come around here as often, if at all, anymore. That is a real shame. It takes away from the experience for all of us.

Now, I'm not going to claim that I like everyone's viewpoints, here. I am an optimist, and as such, find the rampant pessimism hard to swallow. Typically, I don't come on after a particularly stinging loss. It's too hard to read through threads at those times. I have in the past not liked posters, but as of yet have never blocked anyone that I can remember. I've been able to say my piece on several occasions, and a lot of the time, I respect the people I have a beef with, more, for having read their replies.

I know I don't post as much as some, or always have much to say (I tend not to say anything if what I think has already been said), but I feel like one of the old guard now. I still believe that HF is a great site and doesn't need to get out of hand like these things often do. It's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. I realize this has turned into somewhat of a soapbox rant, but the intent is a plea for decency. People will disagree. If we didn't, then there would be no discussion. Different opinions happen. Please realize this and deal with it. Please don't start insulting someone because you don't like what they're saying. It's frustrating to everyone else too. I would like to see HF regain some of the class that has been lost.

We can do this.
I'm no angel. My threads are rife with some knock down drag out debates. That said in the back of my mind is a continual intent not to insult the other poster and to keep it civil although I have a weakness for responding in kind in the moment with sarcasm. I have a tendency to speak to things that not everybody will agree with and that some perhaps feel strongly about. Maybe push the envelope a bit too much. Not to piss anybody off and sometimes just to get feedback.

I agree with a lot of what you said Hairball and think if anybody here can say what you said its you or Cloned or somebody like that. Good role models all and I've thought about that in the exchanges we've had.

I disagree with you singleing out pessimism though because its the intolerance of a differing opinion or perspective that I find problematic as well. Some of us can be more pessimistic in nature and its even a life view.

I try to balance it out with some more positivity but maybe not enough donairs in my diet or something

I hope your post is well recieved and thanks for it

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Old
01-04-2007, 05:39 AM
  #4
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There is a reason for 4 mods and usually a glob mod his lerking watching what is going on.

When this place goes nuts it goes nuts.

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01-04-2007, 05:45 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairball View Post
So when I started posting here, the thing to do was to watch the boards for a while and get the feel of things first. The feel at the time was that there were a lot of knowledgeable posters here, and it was a place of great discussion and class. It was the best place on the web to discuss the Oilers. HF wasn't nearly as big back then. For about a year, I was able to read every single post in every single thread. I enjoyed it quite a lot.

Now that isn't to say that there weren't arguments. I remember an epic one between speeds and gretzky2kurri. It got very heated.

Anyway, HF is a different place now. People don't come here and respect the feel of the boards anymore. They don't come here with class and keep the discussions civil. I know I'm not the only one who feels this. There are a lot of really good posters that just don't come around here as often, if at all, anymore. That is a real shame. It takes away from the experience for all of us.

Now, I'm not going to claim that I like everyone's viewpoints, here. I am an optimist, and as such, find the rampant pessimism hard to swallow. Typically, I don't come on after a particularly stinging loss. It's too hard to read through threads at those times. I have in the past not liked posters, but as of yet have never blocked anyone that I can remember. I've been able to say my piece on several occasions, and a lot of the time, I respect the people I have a beef with, more, for having read their replies.

I know I don't post as much as some, or always have much to say (I tend not to say anything if what I think has already been said), but I feel like one of the old guard now. I still believe that HF is a great site and doesn't need to get out of hand like these things often do. It's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. I realize this has turned into somewhat of a soapbox rant, but the intent is a plea for decency. People will disagree. If we didn't, then there would be no discussion. Different opinions happen. Please realize this and deal with it. Please don't start insulting someone because you don't like what they're saying. It's frustrating to everyone else too. I would like to see HF regain some of the class that has been lost.

We can do this.


Agree completely. I came here daily from about late 2002 until early this season. HF was one of the best kept secrets if you were an Oiler fan IMO. My posts aren't exactly gold (I blame the herb), but i've always enjoyed the knowledgeable posters contributions. Seems to be less and less quality posts as the numbers rise, not even worth reading a lot of the time anymore IMO.

HF is slowly turning into one giant emo ***** fest. You can't even go though the annual slump anymore without seeing serious "trade the entire team and rebuild threads". When the Oilers are winning, we're the greatest team on earth, when we're losing...

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Old
01-04-2007, 08:27 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairball View Post
So when I started posting here, the thing to do was to watch the boards for a while and get the feel of things first.
Agreed. I read HF for a little over a year before I even registered. I wanted to see how deep the water really was, and since I had had some bad message board experiences in other places, I wanted to know what I was getting into.

I almost think it should be a requirement that you have to be registered for a few weeks before you can even post.

Anyway, when people are passionate about something, discussion tends to get really heated and usually it takes a turn for the worse. I never take any of it personally. I'm guilty of it just like anyone else. Passion is such a powerful tool. But sometimes it's hard to remember that people are reading your thoughts instead of listening to them. It changes how the thoughts are perceived and processed. So sometimes, I think we all need to take a step back.

Something changed over the summer, and I really don't like it. The emo posts and rants from last season were a little easier to swallow for some reason.

Group hug anyone?

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Old
01-04-2007, 09:48 AM
  #7
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i stopped posting all together as all i read is oiler bashing from the "so-called" fans. criticizing your team is one thing but if you hate the team and all it does so much then maybe you should find a new team.

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Old
01-04-2007, 10:41 AM
  #8
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Agree completely. In fact, some of the HFCHL members had a discussion about this on our board a couple months ago. A lot of us came to HF Boards as a refuge from the petulant bickering and ****-flinging of the Oilers newsgroup. Now, the only difference between what went on there and what goes on here is that HF Boards is prettier than a newsgroup.

I've been here for quite a while -- I'm probably one of a dozen or so who remember the days when Redtwilight was still with us -- and the downturn these boards have taken is sad. Used to be there were one or two muckrakers (a certain famished feline comes to mind) and the rest of us engaged in discussion. Spirited at times, yes, but discussion none the less.

The current lack of discussion/excess of "look at me! I can bash the hell out of people online!" is the main reason my posts are so few and far between these days.

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Old
01-04-2007, 10:47 AM
  #9
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Meh. Oiler fans are passionate, especially after the 06 run.

C'est la vie.

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Old
01-04-2007, 11:15 AM
  #10
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I know what your talking about, and it gets to me too Hairball, although I've been far from perfect even in some of the things that annoy ME so much. It's wierd to talk about the good ol' days on a message board but I do remember where there could be a 2 page debate between 2 posters on something without one insult being typed. Cats just don't respect each other any more.

I lurked on this site for way longer then I posted on it, and remember when every thread was really just our main man Lain and Redtwilight (RIP) having a conversation with the odd person here or there chiming in their opinon, and it was still the best board I could find. Then it had influx of posters (OGE, Mudcrutch, Harnock, G2K, spaz44, igor, Guy) who knew alot what they were talking about.

HF is huge right now though (I remember before the Pronger vs EDM game, I read an article about what Oilers fans would do and all the examples put forth were from page 1 of the thread on it in this forum), and we have some really good posters as well as some ones that I don't like so much coming in. Afterglow's one person I think usually has great things to say and I don't think he/she joined all THAT recently.

I stopped coming altogether for a bit, but all I can say is you see a post getting stupid, just skip over it, and lemme tell ya that ignore button is a Godsend. It's all you can do these days.

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Old
01-04-2007, 11:22 AM
  #11
OntOilFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairball View Post
So when I started posting here, the thing to do was to watch the boards for a while and get the feel of things first. The feel at the time was that there were a lot of knowledgeable posters here, and it was a place of great discussion and class. It was the best place on the web to discuss the Oilers. HF wasn't nearly as big back then. For about a year, I was able to read every single post in every single thread. I enjoyed it quite a lot.

Now that isn't to say that there weren't arguments. I remember an epic one between speeds and gretzky2kurri. It got very heated.

Anyway, HF is a different place now. People don't come here and respect the feel of the boards anymore. They don't come here with class and keep the discussions civil. I know I'm not the only one who feels this. There are a lot of really good posters that just don't come around here as often, if at all, anymore. That is a real shame. It takes away from the experience for all of us.

Now, I'm not going to claim that I like everyone's viewpoints, here. I am an optimist, and as such, find the rampant pessimism hard to swallow. Typically, I don't come on after a particularly stinging loss. It's too hard to read through threads at those times. I have in the past not liked posters, but as of yet have never blocked anyone that I can remember. I've been able to say my piece on several occasions, and a lot of the time, I respect the people I have a beef with, more, for having read their replies.

I know I don't post as much as some, or always have much to say (I tend not to say anything if what I think has already been said), but I feel like one of the old guard now. I still believe that HF is a great site and doesn't need to get out of hand like these things often do. It's the nature of the beast I'm afraid. I realize this has turned into somewhat of a soapbox rant, but the intent is a plea for decency. People will disagree. If we didn't, then there would be no discussion. Different opinions happen. Please realize this and deal with it. Please don't start insulting someone because you don't like what they're saying. It's frustrating to everyone else too. I would like to see HF regain some of the class that has been lost.

We can do this.
I don't really care about the negativity on message boards (I would leave if I did), but this is what I've encountered most.

Usually I stay away from these types of threads which talk about who is a good poster and who is a bad poster but Hairball has made a good point with what I've bolded.

If people adhered to this, the perceived problem of negativity here would go away.

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Old
01-04-2007, 11:30 AM
  #12
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The problem exists in growth. Messageboards are a community, and when you have a small community where everyone knows everyone, and can exchange thoughts and ideas, even if there is disagreement, there is calm.

You don't get road rage in a small town.

Also, as moderators, we allow things that fit within the rules.

A thread of "I hate Kevin Loew and he is a crap head loser." isn't all that thought provoking, but falls within the rules. When you get a wide base of posters from the extremely intelligent to the average joe, you are going to find such a myriad of things going on with the board that sometimes, it just isn't your cup of tea. That also happens to "Old-timers" and when they could easily find 10 threads on the first page to sink their teeth into, now might only find two.

The other thing like mentioned above, with the growth, there is less of a chance you will see two people debate a topic. There are now so many posts in between that two people can't "engage".

Growth is growth, but doesn't generally equal progress, but is a reality.

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Old
01-04-2007, 11:42 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OntOilFan View Post
Meh. Oiler fans are passionate, especially after the 06 run.

C'est la vie.

IMO, This board has taken a sharp downhill turn since ID left. It would take a concentrated effort to return it to that level again.

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Old
01-04-2007, 11:53 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messier View Post
The problem exists in growth. Messageboards are a community, and when you have a small community where everyone knows everyone, and can exchange thoughts and ideas, even if there is disagreement, there is calm.

You don't get road rage in a small town.

Also, as moderators, we allow things that fit within the rules.

A thread of "I hate Kevin Loew and he is a crap head loser." isn't all that thought provoking, but falls within the rules. When you get a wide base of posters from the extremely intelligent to the average joe, you are going to find such a myriad of things going on with the board that sometimes, it just isn't your cup of tea. That also happens to "Old-timers" and when they could easily find 10 threads on the first page to sink their teeth into, now might only find two.

The other thing like mentioned above, with the growth, there is less of a chance you will see two people debate a topic. There are now so many posts in between that two people can't "engage".

Growth is growth, but doesn't generally equal progress, but is a reality.
Maybe this is bad for me to say , but I find since I have blocked 3 people about a month ago the whole board is easier to deal with. It seems that if we all just didn't respond to some of the young lunatics posting their not-so-thought-out thoughts they would eventually get filtered out. Anyway, I know the posters that I have trouble with are the same ones that many, many long-term posters have been griping about -- why not just block them?

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Old
01-04-2007, 12:00 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePhoenixx View Post
IMO, This board has taken a sharp downhill turn since ID left. It would take a concentrated effort to return it to that level again.
No, I don't think that is the reason. I think when we lost the regular contributions from all the guys who went to their blogs (Lowetide, Mudcrutch, etc).

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Old
01-04-2007, 12:01 PM
  #16
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Originally Posted by Poochiemoo View Post
Maybe this is bad for me to say , but I find since I have blocked 3 people about a month ago the whole board is easier to deal with.
I've blocked a few members myself. I hate blocking people. But it's keeping what little sanity I have intact.

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Old
01-04-2007, 12:03 PM
  #17
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[QUOTE=Rin;7546851]I know i haven't been here for too long, so i'm sure i missed all of what you are talking about. But i agree with everything you said about the disagreements, the dissing, the soapbox stuff...it's unreal how crazy these boards get after ONE loss, or after certain players have ONE bad game.[/QUOTE]


I agree with this big time....i wont act like i dont get ticked off with a loss, but man, these boards explode like a supoernova, insults on the GDT from other fans, insults on threads which say trade so and so, insults here and everywhere, its crazy, now i'll admit, i havent been here a long time, so i wont act like father time, but i do remember we had some really fun posts back then, which kinda brought everyone together, before i registered, i remember a thread which i enjoyed (never posted, was too chicken), it was the "answer one question and ask a new one", or something along those lines. If you check the history, we just don't have any real "fun" threads these days.

I say we need to make a real effort to bring back some decency to these boards, i say we all agree to no insulting of posters, and harshful or hateful comments, just insightful and knowledgeable rebuttles. Or soemthing like that, we're all good people, we just are emotional, its cause we're oiler fans.

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Old
01-04-2007, 12:05 PM
  #18
OntOilFan
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Taking the bags off the avatars could be a start.

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Old
01-04-2007, 12:06 PM
  #19
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Good post Hairball...

I started lurking here as something to do during the lockout, and was fascinated by some of the insight and analysis from posters like igor, mudcrutch (even thought I seldom agreed with mc I respected his knowledge,) spazz44, Lowetide, copperandblue and others.

The board has definitely grown and evolved, but I still think it is one of the best ones for talking hockey - and the Oilers section in particular IMO is better than most other places I have been.

I have never felt the need to block someone, but I do get frustrated sometimes reading the same thing over-and-over again.

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Old
01-04-2007, 12:18 PM
  #20
Hairball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Messier View Post
The problem exists in growth. Messageboards are a community, and when you have a small community where everyone knows everyone, and can exchange thoughts and ideas, even if there is disagreement, there is calm.

You don't get road rage in a small town.

Also, as moderators, we allow things that fit within the rules.

A thread of "I hate Kevin Lowe and he is a crap head loser." isn't all that thought provoking, but falls within the rules. When you get a wide base of posters from the extremely intelligent to the average joe, you are going to find such a myriad of things going on with the board that sometimes, it just isn't your cup of tea. That also happens to "Old-timers" and when they could easily find 10 threads on the first page to sink their teeth into, now might only find two.

The other thing like mentioned above, with the growth, there is less of a chance you will see two people debate a topic. There are now so many posts in between that two people can't "engage".

Growth is growth, but doesn't generally equal progress, but is a reality.
What do you think we can do about it? I think this place is worth salvaging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poochiemoo View Post
No, I don't think that is the reason. I think when we lost the regular contributions from all the guys who went to their blogs (Lowetide, Mudcrutch, etc).
It's a combination. I'm sure ID was more vigilant than any of us realize. The downturn was long before she was a mod though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by faneuil View Post
I've blocked a few members myself. I hate blocking people. But it's keeping what little sanity I have intact.
I don't like to block people either. I think with 2 exceptions, every poster has something worthwhile to contribute at some point.


Thanks for indulging me everyone. I really do hope that the boards benefit from a discussion like this.

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Old
01-04-2007, 12:22 PM
  #21
guymez
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I was lurking on these boards for well over a year prior to joining and there is no doubt about the dropoff in quality since then. I think that Messier pretty much spelled out the reasons for that.
Aside form the points Messier has raised, IMO if posters could make a distinction between the post and the poster (it's tough sometimes...I know) I think that would help the decorum on these boards a great deal. I don't think there is anything wrong with calling out a post if it appears to be lacking any forethought what-so-ever. As a matter of fact I think it might encourage more well thought out posts/threads as oppsed to some of the juvenile posts/threads this board seems to get plenty of.

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Old
01-04-2007, 12:27 PM
  #22
Slats432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairball View Post
What do you think we can do about it? I think this place is worth salvaging.
Well, it isn't something that has a defined formula for improvement. I wouldn't exactly call the place a write off.

I think the ignore feature is a valueable tool.
I think that regulars should use some discretion in what to reply to.

I don't want to pick on any poster...but if a thread is started by...say....

"Mr. Jerk", then no responses would aleviate the problem. People choose to get in pissing matches, and even the best poster helps to perpetuate the problems.

For example, I read every thread started by The Replacement, and also yourself.

If Jim Harnock started a thread, I would click on it for sure. Once I have a read on a poster, I read their threads for two reasons.

1. To participate.
2. Do damage control.

The regulars also have to step up and start intelligent conversations. We lost igor and mc mostly because of the factors I mentioned earlier. They didn't have the ability to ignore those that didn't share their area of expertise. Their knowledge is missed.

But there are still an incredible list of intelligent posters that don't do enough to participate in the discussions. There are those in this thread whose opinions that I enjoy that don't post enough.

Sometimes a veteran has to step up their game.

P.S. When was the last time our elder Lowetide started some wicked thread about how Pisani's poor start relates to some obscure baseball player in 1986?

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Old
01-04-2007, 12:43 PM
  #23
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I think the only thing that needs to be stopped and cannot be tolerated is the personal insults that go on between posters. There's no reason for personal attacks in any situation, none the less a hockey internet message board.

As for threads that are only designed to bash certain players/staff, not only is there nothing we can do about them, but there's nothing we should do about them either. Free speech means you can say whatever you want- granted its not racist, xenophobic, etc.- and continue to do so until your voice is hoarse. Claiming that "Kevin Lowe should be fired because we've lost 5 games in a row" may seem shortsighted, but its within the bound of decency and should thus be protected.

So a simple solution is- don't read the posts/posters that are offensive. It's only a couple of clicks of a mouse to wade through the good/bad posts, and I for one have no problem doing so. Better that than to start limiting what people "should" talk about or what "lively, appropriate" debate really is. As long as its respectful of the person, no matter how inane, we should keep it. And if that upsets any "old timers" that remember some long forgotten day on HF when debate was completetly intelligent (as if such a day actually existed) well, as Messier put it, that's just the cost of growth.

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01-04-2007, 12:49 PM
  #24
HFPM
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Guys...I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The edmontonoilers.com message boards have all but shut down, so all of their childish members have decided to post their crap here.

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01-04-2007, 12:49 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamettt View Post
I think the only thing that needs to be stopped and cannot be tolerated is the personal insults that go on between posters. There's no reason for personal attacks in any situation, none the less a hockey internet message board.
I think there is something in asking people to think about their posts, and to take some time and care in crafting what they inflict on the rest of us. You might want to frame it in free-speech, but I think it has more to do with respectful communication in public fora.

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