HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

"Oilers want Pitkanen" Panaccio

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-06-2007, 03:48 PM
  #26
misfit
Moderator
 
misfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: just north of...everything
Posts: 15,633
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
I wouldn't mortgage the future for Pitkanen. Similiar aged vets would be ok though.
Pitkanen would most certainly be a part of the future. With the age of free agents these days, Torres could be replaced with Hartnell long term, and be effective for a long time with us. And isn't Lupul about the same age as Pitkanen? (unless you're talking about the Schremp/Cogliano/etc. proposal)

That said, this rumor is bunk, and I wouldn't worry too much about it even going through. Just look at Philly's defence without Pitkanen:

Zhitnik - Hatcher
Picard - Gauthier
Jones - ????

wow.

misfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 03:48 PM
  #27
Ranford#30
Registered User
 
Ranford#30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 393
vCash: 500
Pitkanen's value may be inflated by Philly fans. I know we do the same for our players, but you can argue that Lowe will be bringing up Jim Rutherford's brutal Jack Johnson trade this past fall when he attempts to deal.

Ranford#30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 03:51 PM
  #28
misfit
Moderator
 
misfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: just north of...everything
Posts: 15,633
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
I'm just blue-skying here, don't have a specific offer in mind. But if a young developing Dman is needed, perhaps Smid can be added to the equation?
That would be something, wouldn't it? Lupul and Smid for Pitkanen. Making the Pronger deal work out to Pronger for Pitkanen and some picks.

misfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 03:54 PM
  #29
Winston Wolf
Registered User
 
Winston Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 7,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chance View Post
How about MAB, Lupul and a pick for Pitkanen?
Alexandre Picard (D), Jeff Carter, and a pick for Hemsky?


Yeah, didn't think so.


It's becoming fairly obvious to me that many of you haven't watched Pitkanen too often when he's on his game, or really at all, to be frank. Just to explain, he's one of the top young defensemen in the league, along with a guy like Phaneuf. What would a Flames fan say if you proposed MAB, Lupul, and a pick for Phaneuf? They'd probably have some choice words for you. Pitkanen is struggling this year, but his talent is apparent and he's still very young. He has 21 points in 37 games, so he's still producing, but not nearly as much as he could be.

Last year he had 46 points in 58 games, which is a higher PPG than anyone included in any Oilers' proposals here and remember that he's a defenseman, yet you've all been proposing forwards the whole time. That's pretty telling to me. Quantity =/ Quality

Winston Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 03:58 PM
  #30
Tyrolean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Country: Austria
Posts: 6,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston Wolf View Post
Alexandre Picard (D), Jeff Carter, and a pick for Hemsky?


Yeah, didn't think so.


It's becoming fairly obvious to me that many of you haven't watched Pitkanen too often when he's on his game, or really at all, to be frank. Just to explain, he's one of the top young defensemen in the league, along with a guy like Phaneuf. What would a Flames fan say if you proposed MAB, Lupul, and a pick for Phaneuf? They'd probably have some choice words for you. Pitkanen is struggling this year, but his talent is apparent and he's still very young. He has 21 points in 37 games, so he's still producing, but not nearly as much as he could be.

Last year he had 46 points in 58 games, which is a higher PPG than anyone included in any Oilers' proposals here and remember that he's a defenseman, yet you've all been proposing forwards the whole time. That's pretty telling to me. Quantity =/ Quality
In all fairness, all fans like to propose lopsided trade in their team's favour. Philly fans are no different than Edmonton fans as you seem to indicate. We all hope for a GM to have a brain fart and make a trade in out favour, that's why we hunt for desperate teams to make trades with.

Tyrolean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:04 PM
  #31
Roger's Pancreas*
 
Roger's Pancreas*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 13,363
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Roger's Pancreas*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
In all fairness, all fans like to propose lopsided trade in their team's favour. Philly fans are no different than Edmonton fans as you seem to indicate. We all hope for a GM to have a brain fart and make a trade in out favour, that's why we hunt for desperate teams to make trades with.
You're right, but you need to pick up on the team's philosphy. Right now, Holmgren is willing to part with veterans, not the youth. The team is in a rebuilding process.

Roger's Pancreas* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:05 PM
  #32
Winston Wolf
Registered User
 
Winston Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 7,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
I'm just blue-skying here, don't have a specific offer in mind. But if a young developing Dman is needed, perhaps Smid can be added to the equation?
I think Panaccio is an idiot and this rumor is bunk, but if I was to try to make a fair offer between the Oilers and the Flyers involving Pitkanen, Smid would be a must.

I'm a huge Smid fan and I was telling Oilers fans when the Pronger trade happened that Smid would be the centerpiece, and that Lupul was just enough to get the trade done. It would still have to include considerably more than Smid, though, as he hasn't proven he can put up considerable points in the NHL. I believe Smid will slowly round into a number 1 defenseman, but he just doesn't come near the ability of Pitkanen.

I personally don't see any way for the Flyers to trade Pitkanen and improve their team long term, unless some team drastically overpays. We should be building around him, not trying to replace him.

Winston Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:05 PM
  #33
misfit
Moderator
 
misfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: just north of...everything
Posts: 15,633
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston Wolf View Post
Alexandre Picard (D), Jeff Carter, and a pick for Hemsky?


Yeah, didn't think so.


It's becoming fairly obvious to me that many of you haven't watched Pitkanen too often when he's on his game, or really at all, to be frank. Just to explain, he's one of the top young defensemen in the league, along with a guy like Phaneuf. What would a Flames fan say if you proposed MAB, Lupul, and a pick for Phaneuf? They'd probably have some choice words for you. Pitkanen is struggling this year, but his talent is apparent and he's still very young. He has 21 points in 37 games, so he's still producing, but not nearly as much as he could be.

Last year he had 46 points in 58 games, which is a higher PPG than anyone included in any Oilers' proposals here and remember that he's a defenseman, yet you've all been proposing forwards the whole time. That's pretty telling to me. Quantity =/ Quality
In fairness, the "repot" that got this whole thread started was Torres and Lupul for Pitkanen. Is Bergeron and a pick that far off of Torres? Especially given that you don't know what round the pick is in, and the fact that the Flyers would be getting a young, cheap, defenceman in return rather than two wingers.

misfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:10 PM
  #34
Winston Wolf
Registered User
 
Winston Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 7,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrolean View Post
In all fairness, all fans like to propose lopsided trade in their team's favour. Philly fans are no different than Edmonton fans as you seem to indicate. We all hope for a GM to have a brain fart and make a trade in out favour, that's why we hunt for desperate teams to make trades with.
Of course, but a response from the other team's supporters should be expected/wanted.

If I were to make a proposal, (I could probably count them on one hand since I've been here) I'm making sure it fills both teams needs, most importantly, and then we can argue about value. When you completely ignore the other team's needs, it's pretty pointless, IMO.

Winston Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:30 PM
  #35
Winston Wolf
Registered User
 
Winston Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 7,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
In fairness, the "repot" that got this whole thread started was Torres and Lupul for Pitkanen. Is Bergeron and a pick that far off of Torres? Especially given that you don't know what round the pick is in, and the fact that the Flyers would be getting a young, cheap, defenceman in return rather than two wingers.
We have plenty of young, cheap defensemen. Timonen, Picard, Jones, Jonsson (Meyer fits here as well and he was just traded recently). The problem is none of them are good right now. (or will ever be good, in many of these guy's cases )

Maybe it's just a difference of opinion, (not sure what the consensus on Bergeron is in Oiler country) but I see quite a few Oilers games living on the West coast and to me, Bergeron is a marginal defenseman, but a useful PP specialist, if needed. He's a step up from all the guys I listed above, right now, (I think Picard will be a real solid defenseman for us in the near future) but at the end of the day, I wouldn't place Bergeron anywhere but the third pairing on a good team. So, Lupul, a one dimensional goalscorer, who isn't having a ton of success this year, as well as a bottom pairing PP specialist, and a pick does nothing for me when discussing Pitkanen. Just my honest opinion.

Lupul, Bergeron, and a pick may not be too far off Lupul and Torres, but Lupul and Torres is quite far from landing Pitkanen, IMO.

Winston Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:33 PM
  #36
misfit
Moderator
 
misfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: just north of...everything
Posts: 15,633
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston Wolf View Post
We have plenty of young, cheap defensemen. Timonen, Picard, Jones, Jonsson (Meyer fits here as well and he was just traded recently). The problem is none of them are good right now. (or will ever be good, in many of these guy's cases )

Maybe it's just a difference of opinion, (not sure what the consensus on Bergeron is in Oiler country) but I see quite a few Oilers games living on the West coast and to me, Bergeron is a marginal defenseman, but a useful PP specialist, if needed. He's a step up from all the guys I listed above, right now, (I think Picard will be a real solid defenseman for us in the near future) but at the end of the day, I wouldn't place Bergeron anywhere but the third pairing on a good team. So, Lupul, a one dimensional goalscorer, who isn't having a ton of success this year, as well as a bottom pairing PP specialist, and a pick does nothing for me when discussing Pitkanen. Just my honest opinion.

Lupul, Bergeron, and a pick may not be too far off Lupul and Torres, but Lupul and Torres is quite far from landing Pitkanen, IMO.

I think you might be undervaluing Lupul a bit (and possibly Torres too), but I agree that Lupul and Torres for Pitkanen doesn't do anything for Philly. But then again, I've been saying this rumor is garbage since it was fiirst brought up.

misfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:34 PM
  #37
dubya
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston Wolf View Post
We have plenty of young, cheap defensemen. Timonen, Picard, Jones, Jonsson (Meyer fits here as well and he was just traded recently). The problem is none of them are good right now.
Do you see a framework in the offer below? (Realistically, I'm sure Philly holds on to Pitkanen, but I'm curious...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubya View Post
Smid, Gilbert or Chorney, Schremp or Cogs, & Ana 1st or 2nd for Pitkanen?

dubya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:39 PM
  #38
Winston Wolf
Registered User
 
Winston Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 7,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
I think you might be undervaluing Lupul a bit, but I agree that Lupul and Torres for Pitkanen doesn't do anything for Philly. But then again, I've been saying this rumor is garbage since it was fiirst brought up.
Maybe, but I've watched a ton of Ducks games, as we get them and the Kings on basic cable here in Vegas, so they are basically my team when I don't have Center Ice available. I've just never been impressed with Lupul, he's talented and a useful player on a team with nice forward depth, but he'll never be a go to guy or an impact player, which is what I'd be expecting in return for Pitkanen.

He's never seemed like a character player to me, which is why I'd honestly value Torres much more than Lupul.

Winston Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:43 PM
  #39
Winston Wolf
Registered User
 
Winston Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 7,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubya View Post
Do you see a framework in the offer below? (Realistically, I'm sure Philly holds on to Pitkanen, but I'm curious...)
That's a decent framework, for sure. If Philly were actively shopping Pitkanen, I'm sure a framework like that would be what they were looking for, but maybe minus one of the forward prospects and instead a younger forward who is already more proven.

I love Stoll's game, btw.

Winston Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:53 PM
  #40
Digger12
Registered User
 
Digger12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Defending the border
Posts: 14,872
vCash: 500
I have no idea if Pitkanen is possibly available, or what it would take to obtain him if he was...but I will say this:

Back in '98, a lot of GMs were annoyed that the Oilers were obtain a rising star dman out of Phillie, a 22 year old named Janne Niinimaa, and it really didn't take as much as fans thought it would take to get him.

These things do happen.

Digger12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:01 PM
  #41
jadeddog
Registered User
 
jadeddog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Posts: 11,996
vCash: 500
why on earth would philly move pitkanen?!?! they would be utter *fools* to do so.... hes easily in the top 5 for d-men under the age of 25.... he could literally be another pronger in 3-4 years ..... in no way whatsoever does this trade happen, unless lowe overpays through the nose

no way this trade happens, no way at all.... doenst make any sense for philly

jadeddog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:08 PM
  #42
misfit
Moderator
 
misfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: just north of...everything
Posts: 15,633
vCash: 50
Even though it's a garbage rumor (I know I've said this a few times already, but I can't justify actually commenting on this topic without mentioning it), if we could get him without trading Greene or Smid, we'd have quite a defence to look forward to in the coming years.

misfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:08 PM
  #43
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,709
vCash: 500
What is the story on Pitkanen's knees? He's definitely a top 5 young defenceman (probably top 3) and his combination of offensive ability and defensive awareness is amazing but his health situation could scare me away from moving a crapload of assets. Bad knees at under 25 really scare me, does anyone have any idea if his health is questionable long-term?

If he's perfectly healthy and Philly is looking to move him (for some completely unknown reason), I would sell the house for him. Who gives a crap if we "mortgage" the future for him, Pitkanen would be an absolutely huge part of our future.

__________________
Burn Girl Prom Queen
Cerebral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:12 PM
  #44
Art Vandelay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockholm
Country: Sweden
Posts: 5,597
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Art Vandelay
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
What is the story on Pitkanen's knees? He's definitely a top 5 young defenceman (probably top 3) and his combination of offensive ability and defensive awareness is amazing but his health situation could scare me away from moving a crapload of assets. Bad knees at under 25 really scare me, does anyone have any idea if his health is questionable long-term?

If he's perfectly healthy and Philly is looking to move him (for some completely unknown reason), I would sell the house for him. Who gives a crap if we "mortgage" the future for him, Pitkanen would be an absolutely huge part of our future.
He had some arthroscopic surgery on one of his knees this summer, since then though i haven't read/heard anything.

Unless Pitkanen wants out of Philadelphia i don't see him getting moved for anything but a huge overpayment.

Art Vandelay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:12 PM
  #45
dubya
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
Even though it's a garbage rumor (I know I've said this a few times already, but I can't justify actually commenting on this topic without mentioning it), if we could get him without trading Greene or Smid, we'd have quite a defence to look forward to in the coming years.
Agreed on the crap rumour, but if we can swap Smid + for Pitkanen we're still better off, I'd think.

dubya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:15 PM
  #46
misfit
Moderator
 
misfit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: just north of...everything
Posts: 15,633
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubya View Post
Agreed on the crap rumour, but if we can swap Smid + for Pitkanen we're still better off, I'd think.
Me too, just thinking with my fingers.

misfit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:30 PM
  #47
Sethis
Registered User
 
Sethis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,402
vCash: 500
At the start of the year I'd laugh at this thread - "The Oilers want Pitkanen", yah, and so do 28 other teams in the league - but now it's not so unbelievable. Apparently, Pitkanen's play has regressed this year - I blame a crappy team (not intending to make fun Flyers fans, but the record shows it) and a coaching change - and Philly seems to think they can still compete because they dealt for York and Zhitnik, So MAYBE it MIGHT happen.

I'd almost be willing to flip the entire Pronger package we got over to Philly for Pitkanen, but I love Joni effin' Pitkanen (JFP?), I'd rank him up there with Erik Johnson, Bouwmeester, and Phaneuf as 'The New Guard' for elite NHL defenders.

If it's possible, I'd expect Lowe to throw everything he can out on the table and I wouldn't be upset with anyone going the other way apart from Hemsky or Stoll. Philly would have to be stupid, stubborn, or stupendously overpaid in order to send him packing.

Consider my fingers crossed.

Sethis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:37 PM
  #48
s7ark
Moderator
LeonTheProfessional
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,042
vCash: 500
I am wondering how Pitkanen, given his year so far, necessitates Torres along with Lupul? Lupul is on pace for 25+ goals again this year and has been terribly inconsistent. He still has a lot of room to grow. I am actually not sure giving up on Lupul right now is in our best interests. I still see a 40 goal scorer in him, he's just likely 2-3 years away from there (25/26ish I could see it).

No doubt Pitkanen is worth more then Lupul still, but Torres more? No way! Giving up a pair that could consistently pot 70+ goals combined a year, for a struggling top pairing guy, is too much.

Lupul and a 1st I could do for Pitkanen, or if you want D help Lupul + Chorney/Gilbert and a 2nd for Pitkanen.

Or Lupul a 1st and Horcoff for Forsberg and Pitkanen if we could expand it.

__________________
Fire Eakins. Fire MacT. Fire Lowe. Clean house.
s7ark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:43 PM
  #49
s7ark
Moderator
LeonTheProfessional
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,042
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston Wolf View Post

Lupul, Bergeron, and a pick may not be too far off Lupul and Torres, but Lupul and Torres is quite far from landing Pitkanen, IMO.
You either are severely overinflating Pitkanen or undervaluing Lupul. Lupul is 4 days younger then Pitkanen, so he still has potential too. Both are former top 10 picks that haven't played as well this year.

However, Lupul is still on pace for 25+ goals and that is very impressive considering how much better he can still play. I have no doubts that Lupul will hit 40 goals in his career. Likely often.

Lupul and a 1st for Pitkanen is more then fair. Torres and Lupul is way too high, and kills our winger depth.

s7ark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:47 PM
  #50
Yanner39
Registered User
 
Yanner39's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ottawa ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,334
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubya View Post
Smid, Gilbert, Schremp or Cogs, & Ana 1st or 2nd for Pitkanen?
Wow. Hell while were add it, throw in Chorney and Brodziak so that they can really deplete their farm system.

Yanner39 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:17 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.