HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Notices

"Oilers want Pitkanen" Panaccio

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-06-2007, 04:50 PM
  #51
redsox18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 230
vCash: 500
You know what guts me? Oiler fans crying out for Lowe to make a move for a dman. Yet when they hear rumors and names going the other way they always complain:

"I don't want to give him up."
or
"Why can't we trade someone else."
or
"Please don't trade so and so."

It makes me sick to listen to some of you offering Pisani and Horcoff and two bit players and prospects. Face the music if you want a defenceman of Pitkanen's ability it's gonna cost the Oil the likes of Lupul or Torres. No one wants Horcoff or Pisani or Reasoner, if you want to get a stud dman you have to give up stud players. There's not gonna be any Pronger/Brewer deals out there much anymore.

With that being said if the Oil give up Lupul AND Torres you can bet the Oil will be getting a forward like Sanderson or Calder back or maybe even a prospect like Downie seeing Pierre McGuire let the cat out of the bag with regards to how much the Oilers wanted him in 2005.

redsox18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:52 PM
  #52
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,676
vCash: 500
Perhaps something to keep in mind: Lowe apparently tried very hard at the draft to trade up and grab Pitkanen. As he's shown in the past with the Lupul and Torres trades, it might take a while but he often ends up getting the guy he wants.

I think a few people definitely need to keep in mind that Joffrey Lupul is only 23 years old. The guy is definitely struggling but he's still on pace for 25 goals and there is no doubt the guy has a nose for the net. Some people are acting as though his trade value has plummeted due to his poor start and I do not believe that to be the case at all.

__________________
Burn Girl Prom Queen
Cerebral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:55 PM
  #53
Lowetide
Registered User
 
Lowetide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsox18 View Post
You know what guts me? Oiler fans crying out for Lowe to make a move for a dman. Yet when they hear rumors and names going the other way they always complain:

"I don't want to give him up."
or
"Why can't we trade someone else."
or
"Please don't trade so and so."

It makes me sick to listen to some of you offering Pisani and Horcoff and two bit players and prospects. Face the music if you want a defenceman of Pitkanen's ability it's gonna cost the Oil the likes of Lupul or Torres. No one wants Horcoff or Pisani or Reasoner, if you want to get a stud dman you have to give up stud players. There's not gonna be any Pronger/Brewer deals out there much anymore.

With that being said if the Oil give up Lupul AND Torres you can bet the Oil will be getting a forward like Sanderson or Calder back or maybe even a prospect like Downie seeing Pierre McGuire let the cat out of the bag with regards to how much the Oilers wanted him in 2005.
I think a Piktanen/Kapanen duo coming our way is worth talking about.

btw, when you say no one wants Horcoff or Pisani, it speaks to your knowledge of these players, and it doesn't speak well.

Just saying.

Lowetide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:56 PM
  #54
cyrisweb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Calgary ab
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,149
vCash: 500
Forsberg has a ntc I believe, and I don't see him waiving it to come to Edmonton to not only play against the Avs but also against Naslund again. Theres a reason he signed in the east.

I also don't see any reason for Philly to trade Pitkanen. They need him more then Edmonton does.

cyrisweb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 04:58 PM
  #55
dubya
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 931
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanner39 View Post
Wow. Hell while were add it, throw in Chorney and Brodziak so that they can really deplete their farm system.
You did see the word "or", right? Or do you really feel that dealing Gilbert OR Chorney plus Schremp OR Cogs would 'deplete our farm system'? Pitkanen has far more potential than any of those guys, and our NHL centres are young already. Swapping Smid and Pitkanen, we have Smith, Staios, Greene, Pitkanen, Bergeron, Hejda, and Roy/Tjarnquvist with the big club right now (already a young D), with Syvret, Chorney/Gilbert, and the kids on the way up.

And if Brodziak gets it done, I'd add him in a nanosecond.

dubya is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:00 PM
  #56
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,676
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrisweb View Post
Forsberg has a ntc I believe, and I don't see him waiving it to come to Edmonton to not only play against the Avs but also against Naslund again. Theres a reason he signed in the east.
He signed in the Eastern Conference so he wouldn't have to play the Avalanche 8 times a year, I wouldn't be shocked if his opinion changed closer to the deadline when only a few games are left (if Edmonton looked like a team which could contend).

Cerebral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:06 PM
  #57
redsox18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
I think a Piktanen/Kapanen duo coming our way is worth talking about.

btw, when you say no one wants Horcoff or Pisani, it speaks to your knowledge of these players, and it doesn't speak well.

Just saying.
Trust me I am very knowledgeable of the players but you need to be knowledgeable of the NHL salary cap.

While they are decent players, no one in the salary cap era will be beating down Lowe's door for a $2.5M third line winger or a $3.6M center with 6 goals and 22 points. Now I realize what they did last year and in the playoffs but that was only one season, I also realize that Horcoff could turn around his season in the second half and justify his money. But as it stands right now and I can guarantee you this that no GM's have interest in either of those players for the money they are making, and the was the point I was trying to make. They are huge risks right now for the money they make and no one is willing to take those risks.

redsox18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:10 PM
  #58
Lowetide
Registered User
 
Lowetide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsox18 View Post
Trust me I am very knowledgeable of the players but you need to be knowledgeable of the NHL salary cap.

While they are decent players, no one in the salary cap era will be beating down Lowe's door for a $2.5M third line winger or a $3.6M center with 6 goals and 22 points. Now I realize what they did last year and in the playoffs but that was only one season, I also realize that Horcoff could turn around his season in the second half and justify his money. But as it stands right now and I can guarantee you this that no GM's have interest in either of those players for the money they are making, and the was the point I was trying to make. They are huge risks right now for the money they make and no one is willing to take those risks.
Their salaries are a consideration, but your statement that no one wants Horcoff or Pisani speaks to your knowledge of them as players. Cut it any way you want to, bring in salary or seasons or hell bring in which way the wind blows but when you come on another team site and say "no one wants Horcoff or Pisani" you're going to get a reaction.

And it speaks to your knowledge of these players.

Lowetide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:21 PM
  #59
redsox18
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
Their salaries are a consideration, but your statement that no one wants Horcoff or Pisani speaks to your knowledge of them as players. Cut it any way you want to, bring in salary or seasons or hell bring in which way the wind blows but when you come on another team site and say "no one wants Horcoff or Pisani" you're going to get a reaction.

And it speaks to your knowledge of these players.
Ugghhhhh....I have a feeling your arrogance is wrongly

First of all I'm not from another team site, I am an Oiler fan and have been born and raised in Edmonton.

Second of all I know Horcoff is a good two way centre, who probably over-produced last season and is probably closer to a 50-65pt player although the jury is still out. He is good on faceoffs and is an effective penalty killer.

Thirdly, Pisani is a good 3rd liner with the ability to pot 20 goals, be an effective penalty killer, who also is equipped with a great shot with a quick release. He does many things well but nothing exceptionally great.

So I hope that clarifies my knowledge of these players for you, in fact I like both of them. But I'll ask you this is you were a GM dealing with salary cap issues would you trade for either of these players? I know I wouldn't and this is the point I'm trying to make.

redsox18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:23 PM
  #60
Rafters
Registered User
 
Rafters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Medicine Hat
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,860
vCash: 500
Just a thought, if it looks like Lowe will be unable to sign Ryan, we will need a top line lw, If philly is also looking to dump salary how about
To Flyers:
Torres,Lupul,Greene+pick
To OILERS:
Pitkanen,Gagne,Downie

my only concern of Pitkanen is he has been slightly injury prone, and had his abdominal muscle ripped off his hip,I believe last year and many Flyer fans believe he has not been the same since. If it looks like we will be out of the playoffs and Smyth wants to test free agency we can trade him for a good young player as well

Rafters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:24 PM
  #61
Winston Wolf
Registered User
 
Winston Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 7,501
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
Just a thought, if it looks like Lowe will be unable to sign Ryan, we will need a top line lw, If philly is also looking to dump salary how about
To Flyers:
Torres,Lupul,Greene+pick
To OILERS:
Pitkanen,Gagne,Downie

my only concern of Pitkanen is he has been slightly injury prone, and had his abdominal muscle ripped off his hip,I believe last year and many Flyer fans believe he has not been the same since. If it looks like we will be out of the playoffs and Smyth wants to test free agency we can trade him for a good young player as well

Winston Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:26 PM
  #62
Rafters
Registered User
 
Rafters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Medicine Hat
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,860
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston Wolf View Post
would you care to elaborate????

Rafters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:27 PM
  #63
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,676
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
Just a thought, if it looks like Lowe will be unable to sign Ryan, we will need a top line lw, If philly is also looking to dump salary how about
To Flyers:
Torres,Lupul,Greene+pick
To OILERS:
Pitkanen,Gagne,Downie

my only concern of Pitkanen is he has been slightly injury prone, and had his abdominal muscle ripped off his hip,I believe last year and many Flyer fans believe he has not been the same since. If it looks like we will be out of the playoffs and Smyth wants to test free agency we can trade him for a good young player as well
That's ugly man.

Something centered around Greene, Lupul + more could potentially work but I still don't see why Philly would even consider moving Pitkanen (unless he has injury problems and, in that case, why would we want to acquire him?).

Cerebral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:29 PM
  #64
Sachiko
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
would you care to elaborate????
I don't think he needs to as that trade would be so incredibly lopsided.

Sachiko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:29 PM
  #65
Lowetide
Registered User
 
Lowetide's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,281
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsox18 View Post
But I'll ask you this is you were a GM dealing with salary cap issues would you trade for either of these players? I know I wouldn't and this is the point I'm trying to make.
Certainly. If Philadelphia has an interest in Fernando Pisani (and they certainly should) then they have to consider his 2.5M contract this season and in the three following (I believe that's correct).

A quick look at the Philly roster tells us that Kapanen makes 1.52M. Add that to Pitkanen who's at 2M for this season (and then an RFA) and they can certainly take on Raffi at .925M (and he's also RFA).

Money works out, Oilers have their Dman and the Flyers have two quality wingers moving forward. Pisani's 2.5M contract isn't a roadblock imo, in fact that deal (Pisani + Raffi for Pitkanen + Kapanen) is a trade worth considering (although I don't think the Oilers would/should make it).

Lowetide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:31 PM
  #66
Sachiko
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 2,228
vCash: 500
Smid, Lupul, Smith, Schremp, Chorney, Cogliano for Pitkanen, Kapanen and Carter.

Get it done, Lowe.

Sachiko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:32 PM
  #67
Rafters
Registered User
 
Rafters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Medicine Hat
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,860
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
That's ugly man.

Something centered around Greene, Lupul + more could potentially work but I still don't see why Philly would even consider moving Pitkanen (unless he has injury problems and, in that case, why would we want to acquire him?).
I think Philly is considering trading Pitkanen for a reason, and many Flyer fans say he has not been the same since his abdominal injury, same thing happened to Sylvain Turgeon(Pierre's older brother), was a 40 goalscorer his first 2 years in the league, had a ab injury and was never the same...lost mobility,speed and confidence....there has also been rumours that Gagne is on the block because of his 5 mill contract...

Rafters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:35 PM
  #68
Oilbleeder
Moderator
Lead us to glory.
 
Oilbleeder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oil Country
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,753
vCash: 81
The biggest flaw i have about this rumour is Torres. Torres and Stoll have soem pretty good chemistry, not crazy Czech chemistry, but good enouh chemistry. The STP line has been the most consistent line through out, and has scored really well in ES. Before this trade alot of questions have to be asked:

1.) Do you break up a line that has ben doing really well, for a franchise defencemen??

2.) Who takes Torres' place on that line??

3.) is the reward worth the risk??


I'm really split on this...

Oilbleeder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:38 PM
  #69
momentai
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 5,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark View Post
I am wondering how Pitkanen, given his year so far, necessitates Torres along with Lupul? Lupul is on pace for 25+ goals again this year and has been terribly inconsistent. He still has a lot of room to grow. I am actually not sure giving up on Lupul right now is in our best interests. I still see a 40 goal scorer in him, he's just likely 2-3 years away from there (25/26ish I could see it).

No doubt Pitkanen is worth more then Lupul still, but Torres more? No way! Giving up a pair that could consistently pot 70+ goals combined a year, for a struggling top pairing guy, is too much.
I'd say it's likely that that package might not be enough for a guy of Pitkanen's calibre. All the guys mentioned here are in the "young guys with potential" category. However, Pitkanen (injury problems and a Flyers' team that can't seem to click included) is still on pace for a 47 pt season this year. I'd wager he also draws the tough matchups at his age as well.

Neither of Lupul or Torres can provide the impact on our club that a healthy Pitkanen can accomplish and if Lowe is looking at improving our club for the now... this is definitely an option he can look at. I don't see Lupul + Torres an overpayment at all... and I still don't think Philly does it.

momentai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:43 PM
  #70
hemmingway
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowetide View Post
Certainly. If Philadelphia has an interest in Fernando Pisani (and they certainly should) then they have to consider his 2.5M contract this season and in the three following (I believe that's correct).

A quick look at the Philly roster tells us that Kapanen makes 1.52M. Add that to Pitkanen who's at 2M for this season (and then an RFA) and they can certainly take on Raffi at .925M (and he's also RFA).

Money works out, Oilers have their Dman and the Flyers have two quality wingers moving forward. Pisani's 2.5M contract isn't a roadblock imo, in fact that deal (Pisani + Raffi for Pitkanen + Kapanen) is a trade worth considering (although I don't think the Oilers would/should make it).
Yet - it still makes no sense from a Philly perspective.


I can't see them trading a 22 year old defenseman that has 94 points in 166 regular season games, that is averaging over 25 minutes a night this season, and signed to a resonable contract for Torres and Pisani. Kapanen is a serviceable player for his 1.5 million salary - can't see the Flyers throwing him in.

Torres is a quality second line player (perhaps first on a few teams,) but he's playing in a contract year - he'll likely get a substantial raise next year (2.25m/yr?) If he were signed to a longer term, he would have more value. Pisani is a quality third liner on any team, but he has an expensive contract, and has likely peaked in terms of value.

If a fan of another team proposed on these boards that Edmonton trade Smid and Reasoner for a second liner with upside and a journeyman quality third liner - I'm sure the response would be interesting

hemmingway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:56 PM
  #71
Bryanbryoil
Moderator
I Know A Thing Or 6
 
Bryanbryoil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: About Winning
Posts: 50,656
vCash: 500
IMO Lupul, Pouliot, and Gilbert would be pretty damn fair. I'd hate to give up Torres though. If Philly really wants a bruiser then maybe...

Lupul, JF Jacques, a 3rd rounder and Gilbert/Syvret

If we give up Lupul AND Torres who in the hell will be our secondary scoring??? Schremp isn't ready, Mikhnov hasn't been given much of a chance and MAP hasn't gotten to that point yet. We'd get a solid d-man but then we wouldn't be able to score goals (solve one problem and create another one).

__________________
Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated
Bryanbryoil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:56 PM
  #72
Oi'll say!
Registered User
 
Oi'll say!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Oil in 9
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,012
vCash: 500
Just say no to Torres trades.

Oi'll say! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:57 PM
  #73
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,676
vCash: 500
I still don't see any reason why Philly would consider trading Pitkanen but I'm drooling at the thought of our defensive core in a few years if we could get him without trading Greene/Smid...

Pitkanen-Greene
Smid-Gilbert
Chorney-Young/Peckham
Petry

Man, how awesome would that be? All of a sudden most of our defencemen would be quality puck-movers!

Cerebral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 05:58 PM
  #74
Rafters
Registered User
 
Rafters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Medicine Hat
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,860
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sachiko View Post
I don't think he needs to as that trade would be so incredibly lopsided.

it is not as lopsided as you may think
Downie=1st rd pick
Pitkanen=Lupul and Greene
Gagne=Torres

If you take a look the Gagne and Torres part does seem lopsided at first but when you look deeper, Gagne makes 5.25 mill, has 20 even strenght points is a -13 and needs an elite playmaker. Torres is a RFA and will make around 2 million, has 23 even stregth points, is +10 and is a physical force.............If Philly is looking to do a full rebuild and save some cap space it is not so lopsided


Last edited by Rafters: 01-06-2007 at 06:03 PM.
Rafters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-06-2007, 06:00 PM
  #75
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,676
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
it is not as lopsided as you may think
Downie=1st rd pick
Pitkanen=Lupul and Greene
Gagne=Torres

If you take a look the Gagne and Torres part does seem lopsided at first but when you look deeper, Gagne makes 5.25 mill, has 20 even strenght points is a -13 and needs an elite playmaker. Torres is a RFA and will make around 2 million, has 23 even stregth points, is +10 and is a physical force.............If Philly is looking to do a full rebuild and save some cap space it is not so lopsided
The problem is that Pitkanen is worth a decent bit more than Lupul and Greene. Come on guys, the kid is damn close to Phaneuf in terms of young defencemen and he's going to be incredibly elite if he stays healthy.

Cerebral is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:11 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.