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"Oilers want Pitkanen" Panaccio

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Old
01-07-2007, 02:39 AM
  #101
Zach and Slater
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Originally Posted by 21Gator View Post
The rumour is Lupul and Torres. But I think a Dman needs to be added. No way Pitkanen gets traded for a handful of prospects. If they want Lupul and Torres there is no way Smid is part of the deal. I could see adding Greene+ if they add (Sanderson or Knuble or York) and Downie.

MAB looked okay with Roy, so our D pairning could be

Gator/Pitkanen

Staois/Smid

MAB/Roy/Hedja/Tjarnqvist

Not sure how our forwards would shake out.
Before I start I just want to say I love the avatar!!! Anyways, Lupul and Torres is the rumour? You know the word rumour is tossed in there. I honestly believe that deal doesn't make a lot of sense for either team and that the reporter is SPECULATING on what would go back in return. Lupul and Torres is too much, a package of a high end pick and prospect like Gilbert or a guy like Greene makes more sense but it still doesn't replace Philly's stud 22 year old building block which Lowe would have to do for them to even consider moving Pitkanen. A Smid package seems very logical and if you put in Dubnyk that fills another void which is goaltending because throughout there organization goaltending is a mess. Dubnyk is probably 2 or 3 years away from becoming a number 1 and has great potential. Also, if you toss in say Anaheim's 1st, or Tom Gilbert, or Danny Syvret it starts to make sense from a Flyers stand point to do it and it still remains resonable for the Oilers to do it. Philly throughout the organization is stacked up front, and forwards for a big market team like them aren't hard to find anyways. They already have Umberger, Carter, Richards, Downie, Eager, Gagne, Knuble's locked in for a few more years. There forwards are fine, there blueline is disgusting and so is there goaltending. A Lupul and Torres package seems like it doesn't make sense for EITHER team.

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01-07-2007, 03:46 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
pitkanen is 3 years from ufa, arbitration eligible in all 3 of them. We keep thinking of his potential but I would rather have him as a free ufa in 3 years rather than trading away the farm for him now.
This is an absolutely fantastic point that I didn't even think of. A similar situation occured in the summer when Bouwmeester was rumoured to get traded for Pronger. A number of people on the main board were arguing that it wouldn't make sense for Florida because Bouwmeester was so much younger. *News Flash* Bouwmeester was a UFA in three years while Pronger was locked up for four more.

A lot of people are still stuck in the "old" NHL way of thinking - such and such a player is young so he'll obviously be a part of our franchise for a long time. Unfortunately, the lowered UFA age forces us to think in different ways. Contracts are what matter now, not age. Pitkanen is certainly very young still but he could very well leave town before he even hits his prime. I'd be jumping all over Pitkanen if he's available (which I'm not sold on) but it's not like he would be with us for a decade simply because he's 23.

Also important, I'm beginning to feel a lot of people are underrating Lupul's trade value. The kid is only 23 (he has almost an identical age to Pitkanen's) and he's still on pace for 25 goals despite starting the season very slow. He's not great at much else but we've all seen signs of him being a very effective goal scorer. Some people are acting as though his trade value has plummeted due to a poor start to the season and I believe that's a somewhat ridiculous position to take.

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01-07-2007, 03:48 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
This is an absolutely fantastic point that I didn't even think of. A lot of people are still stuck in the "old" NHL way of thinking - such and such a player is young so he'll obviously be a part of our franchise for a long time. Unfortunately, the lowered UFA age forces us to think in different ways. Pitkanen is certainly very young still but he could very well leave town before he even hits his prime. I'd be jumping all over Pitkanen if he's available (which I'm not sold on) but it's not like he would be with us for a decade simply because he's 23.

Also important, I'm beginning to feel a lot of people are underrating Lupul's trade value. The kid is only 23 (he has almost an identical age to Pitkanen's) and he's still on pace for 25 goals despite starting the season very slow. He's not great at much else but we've all seen signs of him being a very effective goal scorer. Some people are acting as though his trade value has plummeted due to a poor start to the season and I believe that's a somewhat ridiculous position to take.
Maybe, but who knows what the team will look like in 3 years? Maybe our D will all develop and we won't need him then. I don't want to trade Lupul for the reasons you mention, but to say the Oil should wait 3 years for Pitkanen is silly, IMO...3 years is a long time in a salary cap world.

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01-07-2007, 04:07 AM
  #104
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There should be a new thread:

29 other GMs in the league want Pitkanen!!!! Read all about it!!!!!

He's a franchise defenseman and the only one of those I can recall being dealt in the last while is Pronger...and that had more to do with age and contract and didn't cost the Oilers much in a trade to get him.

Pitkanen gets a lot of play on these boards for good reason. The Flyers know what they have and WON'T trade him for less than a king's ransom, at which point the Oilers would lose out on the deal.

Torres and Lupul...that would be a gross overpayment by the Oilers.

This notion is a pipe dream IMO.

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01-07-2007, 04:11 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubya View Post
Maybe, but who knows what the team will look like in 3 years? Maybe our D will all develop and we won't need him then. I don't want to trade Lupul for the reasons you mention, but to say the Oil should wait 3 years for Pitkanen is silly, IMO...3 years is a long time in a salary cap world.
I didn't necessarily agree with waiting three years (I'd kill to see Pitkanen in an Oilers uniform), I simply agreed with the importance of realizing that Pitkanen isn't that far away from unrestricted free agency. There seems to be this perception that young players will stick around for a decade or more with the home team and that's simply not a reality anymore. Pitkanen is 23 years old - as I said on the trade board, he could potentially only stick with the team for three seasons. Is his trade value higher than Chris Pronger's who was locked up cheap for four years?

A lot of people were chiming in during ProngerGate that Pronger was getting old and that that would hurt his trade value. They didn't clue in to the fact that contracts mean more than relative age with the lowered UFA age - Pronger was signed for 4 years and that meant a lot.

The same thing can be said about Pitkanen. He has a glowing image around here because he is a young potential franchise defenceman. He's certainly young but that's unfortunately no guarantee that he'll be around for more than three seasons. We could very well trade for this young potential franchise defenceman and see him leave after three seasons when he's finally starting to live up to that potential.

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01-07-2007, 04:14 AM
  #106
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I just want someone, anyone, to explain why in the h-e-double hockey sticks the Flyers would trade Pitkanen?

You do not trade players like that for anything. The Flyers are going nowhere and need to build around him, not trade him away. Ludicrous.

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01-07-2007, 04:23 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
I just want someone, anyone, to explain why in the h-e-double hockey sticks the Flyers would trade Pitkanen?

You do not trade players like that for anything. The Flyers are going nowhere and need to build around him, not trade him away. Ludicrous.
That's the part that seems a little odd about this whole thing. Then again, the guy is three years away from unrestricted free agency so perhaps they don't believe he'll be around for the whole rebuild. It's strange to say that given the fact that he's only 23 but that's the way in works in the new NHL.

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01-07-2007, 04:31 AM
  #108
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Why would the Flyers want to trade their best young defenseman when offense won't be and isn't a problem on their team?

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01-07-2007, 04:42 AM
  #109
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From an outsider's perspective (neither an Oilers or Flyers fan, in fact I loathe both teams), if I was Philly, I'd be asking for Schremp, Lupul and a 1st at the very least. And even then I'd be hesitant.

If the deal is just Torres and Lupul, there's no way twenty other teams don't counter the offer with something better. San Jose, for one, would probably love to get their hands on Pitkanen and I feel they have more assets than Edmonton to get him.

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01-07-2007, 04:42 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by sticknrink View Post
Why would the Flyers want to trade their best young defenseman when offense won't be and isn't a problem on their team?
Thank you for your contributions to this thread.

You win absolutely nothing for being the 1000th person to mention exactly that.

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01-07-2007, 04:43 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Cerebral View Post
That's the part that seems a little odd about this whole thing. Then again, the guy is three years away from unrestricted free agency so perhaps they don't believe he'll be around for the whole rebuild. It's strange to say that given the fact that he's only 23 but that's the way in works in the new NHL.
Let's see...Lecavalier approaching UFA...signed...Richards...signed...Horcoff signed...Thornton, Hossa, Vokoun, Turco, Morrow...and the list goes on and on. Teams don't allow their best young players to get to UFA age without a long term deal and players don't pass up sweet contracts. The Flyers will have Pitkanen as long as they want to have him.

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01-07-2007, 04:45 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Dirty Frank View Post
From an outsider's perspective (neither an Oilers or Flyers fan, in fact I loathe both teams), if I was Philly, I'd be asking for Schremp, Lupul and a 1st at the very least. And even then I'd be hesitant.
and if I were the Oilers I'd accept your terms quicker than you can say "Bob's your Uncle".

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01-07-2007, 04:48 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Keeper of the CuP View Post
and if I were the Oilers I'd accept your terms quicker than you can say "Bob's your Uncle".
Haha, if I was Philly though, I wouldn't be trading Pitkanen. So nyah.

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01-07-2007, 04:52 AM
  #114
Cerebral
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Originally Posted by Dirty Frank View Post
From an outsider's perspective (neither an Oilers or Flyers fan, in fact I loathe both teams), if I was Philly, I'd be asking for Schremp, Lupul and a 1st at the very least. And even then I'd be hesitant.

If the deal is just Torres and Lupul, there's no way twenty other teams don't counter the offer with something better. San Jose, for one, would probably love to get their hands on Pitkanen and I feel they have more assets than Edmonton to get him.
I think Torres is worth a lot more than Schremp to be honest. Lupul and Torres is a very solid package of players, both are still very young and both look like they have the potential to be 35 to 40 goal scorers in this league. I'd be hesitant to move those two in a deal but I'd jump all over Schremp, Lupul + a 1st (hell, throw in a few more picks and prospects if you want).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky4PM View Post
Let's see...Lecavalier approaching UFA...signed...Richards...signed...Horcoff signed...Thornton, Hossa, Vokoun, Turco, Morrow...and the list goes on and on. Teams don't allow their best young players to get to UFA age without a long term deal and players don't pass up sweet contracts. The Flyers will have Pitkanen as long as they want to have him.
I tend to agree but it's definitely not as cut and dry as that.

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01-07-2007, 09:35 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Panasonic Youth View Post
Tim Panaccio is a goof.

Have you seen the Flyers defense? Pitkanen, Hatcher, Zhitnik, Rathje, Jones, Picard, Jonsson and Grenier are our defense. Without him, we're looking at dressing wads of crap and traffic cones for opposing teams to laugh at. I'm not going to say that he's untouchable because every player has a price. But unless Phaneuf or Bouwmeester are coming back the other way, this deal isn't happening.

I just had to bold that for emphasis! What a line. You obviously have the same sense of humour as I do!

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01-07-2007, 10:18 AM
  #116
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Have to comment.

Oilers fans obviously have not watched Pitkanen much this year, I had already mentoned in another post that this thread was overvaluing Pitkanen's services and IMO undervaluing the Oilers going the other way but let me back up those comments about Pitkanen with some comments from the media!

From the rumour column that started this thread and I quote

"This should provide plenty of discussion board material. Personally, I don't think Pitkanen is ever going to "get it" and I know for certain that is something the Flyers, as an orgnization, are trying to determine themselves"

This is backed up by Jim Matheson in today's Journal and I quote.

Memo to the Oilers: [B]The Flyers are growing a tad antsy with Finnish defenceman Joni Pitkanen, who is in his third NHL season but still struggling with consistency. They're not sure if he's going to be a stud puck-mover or Janne Niinimaa, who looked like a star when he was a kid in Philadelphia but levelled off.[/B] The Oilers badly wanted to draft Pitkanen in 2002, offering Mike Grier and their first-round draft pick to Tampa to move to No. 4, but the Lightning worked a deal with Philly instead, giving up Ruslan Fedotenko and two draft picks. The Oilers have never lost interest in Pitkanen, even if his decisions with the puck have left the Flyers exasperated at times. They would like a defenceman to replace him, but they also need wingers
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets think about the above before we start trading Lupul, Torres, Smid and a First round draft pick. Sorry people that is WAY too much!!

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01-07-2007, 10:25 AM
  #117
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i realize that 90% of this thread is pure speculation, but im still really surprised that so many people actually seem to think such a trade will happen.... lowe isnt going to overpay and philly will want an overpayment for such a promising young defenceman .... those two factors dont add up to a trade in my mind

do all of you discussing these things really believe a trade is likely? honestly? or are you just speculating for the fun of it?

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01-07-2007, 10:30 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
i realize that 90% of this thread is pure speculation, but im still really surprised that so many people actually seem to think such a trade will happen.... lowe isnt going to overpay and philly will want an overpayment for such a promising young defenceman .... those two factors dont add up to a trade in my mind

do all of you discussing these things really believe a trade is likely? honestly? or are you just speculating for the fun of it?
I don't know if it's possible but it's pretty obvious that this is something that is being discussed. Even Matheson has it this morning.

The problem is that most on this thread are highly overrating Pitkanen as I think I have shown from just two media comments in my last post.

In the games I have seen, he has been average. He shows flashes of brilliance but on many nights he is average.

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01-07-2007, 11:13 AM
  #119
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Your little blurbs really didn't shed any light on anything. Timmy P. is not a credible source, and the 2nd one is probably the 1st quote regurgitated with an obvious Niinimaa reference included.

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01-07-2007, 11:20 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Rafters View Post
Just a thought, if it looks like Lowe will be unable to sign Ryan, we will need a top line lw, If philly is also looking to dump salary how about
To Flyers:
Torres,Lupul,Greene+pick
To OILERS:
Pitkanen,Gagne,Downie

my only concern of Pitkanen is he has been slightly injury prone, and had his abdominal muscle ripped off his hip,I believe last year and many Flyer fans believe he has not been the same since. If it looks like we will be out of the playoffs and Smyth wants to test free agency we can trade him for a good young player as well
downie is the guy i want on the oil..

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01-07-2007, 11:36 AM
  #121
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*Completly hypothetical* speculation here:

Smyth's playing hardball with Lowe, says he wants $6mil or bust with the season he's having, the guys in Philly just love his character and say they'll even move Pits to do it.

Do you make the move? Do we need to ask for more? Do they?

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01-07-2007, 11:47 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
*Completly hypothetical* speculation here:

Smyth's playing hardball with Lowe, says he wants $6mil or bust with the season he's having, the guys in Philly just love his character and say they'll even move Pits to do it.

Do you make the move? Do we need to ask for more? Do they?
That's like a moral dilemma.... hold on im taking an ethics class this term i'll give you an answer in 3 months

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01-07-2007, 11:50 AM
  #123
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Joni Pitkanen continues to struggle defensively for the Flyers with a -19 rating.

In an effort to help out his defensive game, coach John Stevens paired Derian Hatcher with him on Saturday. Pitkanen has zero goal and 21 assists in 38 games thus far. With his stellar play in the second half of last season, many thought the young defender would put it all together this year. At this point, he is a one dimensional fantasy player whose downside right now outweighs his assist production. Bench him until his play turns around.
Source: Philadelphia Inquirer


pretty true, he has been brutal this year. That being said that is a good thing, becuase his value should be low and he is still a stud.

What about Smid?? Smid and a 1st, would that get it done. All I know is it would be awsome to get him and not trade a roster player, with three lines like we have now and pitkannen we would be looking dam good. Torres could be replaced by moreau aswell, which would be ok to. Torres and a 1st would be the other deal I would like to see.

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01-07-2007, 11:52 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
*Completly hypothetical* speculation here:

Smyth's playing hardball with Lowe, says he wants $6mil or bust with the season he's having, the guys in Philly just love his character and say they'll even move Pits to do it.

Do you make the move? Do we need to ask for more? Do they?
That's a tough one from an Oilers perspective. But it's an even tougher one from a Flyers perspective. For a team with virtually no hope of making the playoffs, trading your young stud defenceman for a pending UFA is more than just a little odd.

To me trading Smyth at, or before, the deadline pretty much guarantees we aren't going to re-sign him. I'd rather have Smyth than Pitkanen, so I guess my answer would be no deal.

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01-07-2007, 11:53 AM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
*Completly hypothetical* speculation here:

Smyth's playing hardball with Lowe, says he wants $6mil or bust with the season he's having, the guys in Philly just love his character and say they'll even move Pits to do it.

Do you make the move? Do we need to ask for more? Do they?
I would do it, Smyth would be hard to give away, but joni has the potential to be just as good for us right now. If SMyth is playing hardball like that then the chance of him coming back is slim, you make the move and get a franshise D man. I don't see that happening though, plus philly would shy away from him at that price to.

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