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Brewer question (mild post)

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Old
12-02-2003, 08:50 PM
  #1
gretzky2kurri
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Brewer question (mild post)

Not trying to bust any balls, but what is everyone expecting Brewer to become?

An offensive threat? A defensive stalward? A bit of both?

This season he's got 1 goal and 4 assists.....5 points (same as Cross) so I question whether it's an offensive upside. I mean the guys on pace for an 18 point season.

A defensive specialist? I don't even want to go there.

Like I said, I'm not trying to bust any balls. I just want to know what this "upside" actually is that everyone is expecting.

I've yet to see what this "star" in Eric Brewer is. Will it take another 6 seasons? I think he's already close to his ceiling.

Enlighten me.

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12-02-2003, 09:11 PM
  #2
woody
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri
Not trying to bust any balls, but what is everyone expecting Brewer to become?

An offensive threat? A defensive stalward? A bit of both?

This season he's got 1 goal and 4 assists.....5 points (same as Cross) so I question whether it's an offensive upside. I mean the guys on pace for an 18 point season.

A defensive specialist? I don't even want to go there.

Like I said, I'm not trying to bust any balls. I just want to know what this "upside" actually is that everyone is expecting.

I've yet to see what this "star" in Eric Brewer is. Will it take another 6 seasons? I think he's already close to his ceiling.

Enlighten me.
I doubt that I can enlighten you, but thats a good question. The first two years in Edmonton Brewer was able to time/jump in the play very well. I thought he would be a very mobile d-man with points around 40-45 per season.

His game this year has really puzzled me. It looks like he just wants to play safe and not be noticed at all. Only in a couple of games this year did he try to make a difference and rushed the puck a little more.

Now to answer your question, I only see Brewer talent aside at best 3rd d-man on the Oilers unless he changes his approach to the game.

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12-02-2003, 10:21 PM
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To me the upside was always that big frame with good skating ability. The problem with the offensive/puckmoving part of his game is that he stick handles like the puck is a tennis ball bouncing all over the joint. I don't know if he has vision problems but hereally is weak with the puck. Frankly to me that is the problem defensively as well. Fanning on breakout passes, mishandling the puck and generally look quite terrible at times.

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12-02-2003, 10:41 PM
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gretzky2kurri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsher
To me the upside was always that big frame with good skating ability. The problem with the offensive/puckmoving part of his game is that he stick handles like the puck is a tennis ball bouncing all over the joint. I don't know if he has vision problems but hereally is weak with the puck. Frankly to me that is the problem defensively as well. Fanning on breakout passes, mishandling the puck and generally look quite terrible at times.
I've always wondered if he had a depth perception problem. The way he lets forwards get right on top of him in crucial situations when he has the puck in his own end.

He has a big frame, but seems "above" using it anymore. Either that or he's nursing a 2 year injury. He did make a nice hit the other night though. Colorado I beleive.

And yes, he can skate fast, whilst making it look easy.

Still looking for positives here.

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12-03-2003, 04:03 AM
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I remember his draft year where he was described as the next Larry Robinson ..Ha..more like Moe Robinson .

 
Old
12-03-2003, 06:06 AM
  #6
LawnDemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gretzky2kurri
Not trying to bust any balls, but what is everyone expecting Brewer to become?

An offensive threat? A defensive stalward? A bit of both?

This season he's got 1 goal and 4 assists.....5 points (same as Cross) so I question whether it's an offensive upside. I mean the guys on pace for an 18 point season.

A defensive specialist? I don't even want to go there.

Like I said, I'm not trying to bust any balls. I just want to know what this "upside" actually is that everyone is expecting.

I've yet to see what this "star" in Eric Brewer is. Will it take another 6 seasons? I think he's already close to his ceiling.

Enlighten me.
i'm going to preface this by saying that I am not impressed with brewer this season (or last) and I never believed he would become the next chris pronger.

however, brewer has the tools to be an above average Dman who can carry the puck and take the body. he has proven that ability but has struggled the past two campaigns. personally, i see him playing like he did his first couple seasons - more hits, more simple decisions.

the thing that G2K seems to overlook in his perpetual anti-brewer rants is that brewer also does many good things over the course of a game. unfortunately, errors are always more obvious when defensemen make them (specifically defensemen that the observer has an irrational "hate-on" for). ironically, G2K has chastised me for my equally tainted view of cory cross - and he was right to do so. i have taken his advice and objectively observed cross make more good plays than bad plays over the last couple games. i still don't like cross but i can admit that he's not the pylon i made him out to be. learn from your own lessons - if you watch brewer with the same objectivity it is obvious that his "bonehead to smart play" ratio typically favors the smart play side. if brewer works on mitigating the bonehead plays then he will be a top 4 dman - but i never expect(ed) him to be chris pronger.

it is accurate to compare the performances of cross and brewer this season - even going so far as giving cross the edge for consistency. however, brewer has one thing that cross does not: the ability to improve. cross is playing the best hockey of his career while brewer is playing about as bad as he can. brewer still needs to "Grow up" and has another year or two of emotional development to go through.

long story short: i expect brewer at 23 to be at worst cory cross and by 26 to be at best adam foote.

now G2K, i have to ask you this: why is the player i just described a "bad thing"? a 23 year old who is at worst cross and who could become at best foote. seems like a keeper to me. sure he's overpaid if all he delivers by 26 is "cross" but it is still too early to say that he can never achieve "foote". just relax and give him time - and by time i mean "years of age" not "seasons played". it's easy to say "he's had 5 seasons to develop" but keep in mind his actual age. what were you like at 23-24. i know that i wasn't the most reliable guy around when i was that age. hell, comrie is that age and look how smart his decisions have been thus far...

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12-03-2003, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon

long story short: i expect brewer at 23 to be at worst cory cross and by 26 to be at best adam foote....
Foote with wheels, no less.

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12-03-2003, 06:47 AM
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great description LawnDemon, i would have said the same in the regards that Brewer will at most become a #2 defensive d-man that has wheels and can easily show a bit of offensive savvy. From the few (two) games i've seen this year so far ( both losses ) he's made some excellent decisions and great plays.

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12-03-2003, 11:22 AM
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Wow, great post LD. We're agreeing on stuff!

Actually I really couldn't have described what I feel is Brewer's potential better. You're bang on about the seasons played vs. player's age. When I was 23... yah.. not too good maturity or mentally wise. Seven seasons or not, Brewer is still a young 23 year old man. And the Cross - Foote comparison was bang on. And yes, ... Foote with wheels.

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Old
12-03-2003, 01:02 PM
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gretzky2kurri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawnDemon
G2K has chastised me for my equally tainted view of cory cross - and he was right to do so. i have taken his advice and objectively observed cross make more good plays than bad plays over the last couple games. i still don't like cross but i can admit that he's not the pylon i made him out to be. learn from your own lessons - if you watch brewer with the same objectivity it is obvious that his "bonehead to smart play" ratio typically favors the smart play side
Some good points in this post LD.

The Foote thing is a bit of a stretch though. (lets hope I'm wrong)

You've actually opened my eyes on Cross alot lately. That's a good thing. I'm starting to see where you get your anger for him from. He can be very easy to hate some nights. The tendencies you pointed out to me were getting increasingly noticable after some of our discussions.

He does get lucky on some of his risky decisions. Decisions that would make him look really bad if the blew up in his face.

It's like he's dancing on a mine field out there some nights.

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12-03-2003, 01:06 PM
  #11
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Frankly, I'd love it if he were to become an Adam Foote type player. But nothing about Brewer's demeanor nor his attitude on the ice reminds me of Adam. Suffice to say, unless Brewer gets an attitude adjustment he's never going to have the intensity and aggression that Adam does.

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12-03-2003, 01:14 PM
  #12
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This might be a little extreme, but my opinion is this: If the Oilers trade Brewer now, they might as well trade Hemsky, Torres, Semenov, Stoll, and Rita too. Because if they're willing to give up on a young d-man with that kind of potential (and yes, at 24, it's still potential), then I don't think they'll have any problem trading those guys when they struggle at that age.

The only thing I see that's wrong with Brewer is his salary. But I don't know if the Oilers can afford to trade guys like him away.

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12-03-2003, 01:36 PM
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At the heart of things, he is still a 24 year old, 6'3 220 lb. mobile, hitting D-man. On top of that, he has shown he is capable of carrying the minutes of a top 2 defenseman and contributing on offense (rushing the puck, good shot). Yes, he still has lapses with decision making and will get caught out of position at times. It's his inconsistency (something that plagues our entire bloody lineup, don't ask me why) that is so annoying.

The only way I see us moving him is to get a Boynton/Jillson sort of player, and that to me is mostly a lateral move. You're getting the same type of D-man in return. Brewer needs to find his confidence again, but I have no idea how he will do that. He has been trying to recover his game of 2 seasons ago. When is he going to get out of this funk? Eventually, though, Lowe's patience will run out (particularly because of the money he earns).

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12-03-2003, 01:56 PM
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LD seems to have a good idea of Brewer's downside (turning into Cory Cross) but on the upside I wonder if a Wade Redden is a better example than Adam Foote.

Foote is more physical that Brewer will ever be while Redden tends to be more calm, less intimidating. This is something that would be very acceptable to me as Redden is a huge reason the Sens have any success they have. Especially on the PP.


T

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12-03-2003, 04:06 PM
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I, for one, feel that Brewer still has the potential to be a #1 defenseman in this league and at times (not this year, obviously) has reminded me very much of Ed Jovanovski. (which kind of sucks, cuz I DETEST Jovanovski)

Like Eddie, Eric is a strong, but kind of awkward-looking skater who likes to jump into the rush. In the past, he has also shown the ability to throw a big hit now and again.

However, unlike Jovo, Eric hasn't really ever shown a lot of intensity or even a bit of a mean streak.

Before I start the comparison, I'm not trying to start an "Isbister is the next Bertuzzi"-type post that we read so many of after the deadline last year.

But there are some definite similarities statistically in their careers.

Both were top five picks, who returned for one year of junior after the draft before making the jump to the big league.

Jovo had more immediate success, but seasons three to five in their respective careers are as follows:

Jovo 81GP 9G 14A 23PTS -12 158PIM
72GP 5G 22A 27PTS -9 126PIM
75GP 5G 21A 26PTS -3 54PIM

Brew 77GP 7G 14A 21PTS +15 53PIM
81GP 7G 18A 25PTS -5 45PIM
80GP 8G 21A 29PTS -11 45PIM

As you can see, their fifth seasons were practically identical.

Unfortuanately for Oil fans, this is where the similarities end.

Jovo went on to put up 47 points in his sixth season, while Brewer has put up 5 points in 22 games, leaving him on pace for approx. 20 points, a big step back.

Here's to hoping Brew gets some fire in his game. I think he still has the potential to be a Jovanovski-type d-man. (yes, jovo-type, not similar numbers) I think he can still put up more points than he has before by jumping into the play, which he hasn't been doing at all this year.

I also don't feel that Eric will ever very good defensively a la Pronger, or even have a prayer in the Norris voting. But I still think the potential is there for a 40-45 point defenseman who can join the rush and be good enough defensively to not be a liability.

Maybe we just need Coffey to be our defensive coach, instead of Huddy, as I can't remember Brew's last rush up the ice.

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