Raffi wants to be here, his best bud is here, and he's becoming an impact player. This is not a guy you trade. Also - his stats don't suggest that's he's going to be a big salary player.
Lupul on the other hand still has value around the league. I'm beginning to agree with the A Carter comparisons, and the fact that he has never seemingly embraced the team or the fact that he's in Edmonton scares me.
IMO you build around Hemsky, Stoll, Torres, Smid.
You keep Smyth, Roloson, Moreau, Pisani - your heart.
Build around those pieces. Perfect mix of youth and stability.
I totally agree with you on the specifics dawgbone. Anybody that thinks Torres can pass the puck just doesn't watch him enough.
There's a reason Raffi is the guy near the opposition blue line taking the lead pass rather than the guy giving that lead pass. That's the role he's more suited to and he's probably not capable of the other role.
I think many of us aren't trading Raffi because he hasn't contributed...but for other reasons and because of what he could get us.
Frankly, the longer this goes on the more Jacques looks like a stiff to me.
The guy is +0/-9 at 5V5 thus far this year. That's fricking unbelievable. That 0 GF is fully deserved to my eye too. No Oiler handles the puck in the offensive zone like Jacques does - he treats it like a live grenade at all times.
The thing is, he's put up better numbers in the AHL than Torres did at the same age, and Torres registered just 5 assists in his first 35 NHL games (Jacques is 0/18).
I don't think he's that far off of Torres when he was 21.
TheSpecialist - MacT thinks he was that good of a hockey player when in actuality he was no better then a Louie Debrusk.
Gimme a break about how Torres is all of a sudden a great super consistant player, for the first 20 games, he was absolutely USELESS, Mac T was even considering sitting him at one point because he was so useless out there. He has played 20 good games since then, but how long will that last? It could already be over for all we know, who knows what Torres we will be seeing 20 games from now? Theres just as good as chance as there isn't that there will be threads saying how brutal he is and how Lowe should have traded him when he had value. The arguement that Torres has become a model player for consitency is complete bull, because like his entire career, this year he has been anything but consistent.
Well they have to move someone and I think we all agree they need a very good puck moving D-man. It is good to hear almost everyone backing up Mr. Torres we should look at things from possibly Philly's perspective he plays like a Flyer and you have to give if you want to get and as much as I loved aspects of his play I think we have a pretty good GM and if this is the move then lets get it done.
OK, I admit I was overboard on the Hemsky comments. I came close to liking him during the playoffs but his intensity just isn't there most of the time and I can't handle that.
As far as the comments about Raffi's passes are concerned, he makes some pretty good passes that spring guys but I don't think that's where he gets his assists. He's just the fastest, most aggressive Oiler in puck pursuit and he makes life hard on defensemen. Even Ethan, hard worker and physical player that he is, doesn't generate the chaos that Raffi does on the forecheck.
It's no surprise to me that the Flyers are after Raffi, they have always played a style that I liked and Raffi would fit right in there with the best them.
I honestly don't know how much Oiler hockey I could watch if it come down to the Czech line for 20 minutes a game with noone to really pick up the intensity physically. Watching the Oilers get beaten like a bunch of rented mules in the first two games against SJ was one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen and Torres and Pronger were the only Oilers who could hold their own let alone give something back. I couldn't even have watched anymore of that series if it wasn't for 14 and 44. Totally embarassing.
There was one play at the end that absolutely baffled me with Torres tonight. He made some amazing stickhandling moves to get possession of the puck in front of the Oilers bench and did a little dance and came away with it. And then made a bizarre pass the was picked off and gave the Kings a chance to score late in the game.
I agree with Dawgbone, I was watching for it today, and I don't think Torres is a particularly good passer.