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Old
01-08-2007, 01:54 PM
  #76
Drake1588
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
The Caps are going to keep him reguardless of how I or anyone else feels so Its a moot point. Ill be ok with him staying I guess...just not thrilled. Id rather see them use the money on defense.
I agree with this. They'd still need to do something about center, because with just one of Zubrus or Backstrom, you still don't have anyone who isn't overwhelmed at second-line center.

Yet it is most certainly moot. The Caps are keeping him, no matter the cost. I'm not thrilled but can live with it. I hope Semin keeps Zubrus' numbers strong, because Backstrom will be centering with Ovechkin on a permanent basis as soon as he shows he can hack it, which I suspect may be a week or two into the 2007-08 season.

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01-08-2007, 01:55 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Tinordi24 View Post
CP,

The DumpZubrusNow club believes that his production is strictly limited to the Ovechkin factor so any points he scores are invalid. They believe you could stick Boyd Gordon with Ovy and he would have similar production.

Never mind that we look terrible when Klepis has to center Ovy in the couple games that Dainus missed.
lol, you really like to exagerate don't you.

Gordon is a 4th line center, Klepis is an AHL player. No one is saying Zubrus isn't superior to those two. But he isn't a top line player without Ovechkin.

Unless you think it is just a fluke that the last two seasons, the two years he has played with Ovechkin, are really the only two where he has put up decent numbers.

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01-08-2007, 01:55 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I don't want that, but I am not giving Zubrus 4.5-5 per year.
Then I'm fine with that. We should seek to trade Ovechkin now as we could certainly get a Lindros like deal going for a true rebuild.

If we go into the next 2 season with Beech/Klepis combo then we may as well write them off now. That would be at minimum 4-6 years of wasted Ovechkin and a total waste of Kolzig.

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01-08-2007, 01:56 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
I agree with this. They'd still need to do something about center, because with just one of Zubrus or Backstrom, you still don't have anyone who isn't overwhelmed at second-line center.

Yet it is most certainly moot. The Caps are keeping him, no matter the cost. I'm not thrilled but can live with it. I hope Semin keeps Zubrus' numbers strong, because Backstrom will be centering with Ovechkin on a permanent basis as soon as he shows he can hack it, which I suspect may be a week or two into the 2007-08 season.
This we agree on.

Zubrus is one of the player McPhee and I agree on. How often does that happen?

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01-08-2007, 01:58 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by The Viking Fury View Post
I don't want to throw away two more seasons. Thats a waste.
I don't either. But what do you think overpaying Zuby 1.5-2 million per is going to do for this team in 3 or 4 years?

losing Zuby would no doubt hurt this team for the next couple years, but signing Zuby to a bad contract would hurt this team 3 or 4 years from now.

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01-08-2007, 01:59 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
lol, you really like to exagerate don't you.

Gordon is a 4th line center, Klepis is an AHL player. No one is saying Zubrus isn't superior to those two. But he isn't a top line player without Ovechkin.

Unless you think it is just a fluke that the last two seasons, the two years he has played with Ovechkin, are really the only two where he has put up decent numbers.
Wrong. I LOVE to exagerate!

Gordon sucks. I hate the boy! But..

The Boy>Klepis

I'm not even going to include Beech in this conversation since he is not NHL talent. He should not be on this team period. At least Klepis still has age on his side. Beech has been given plenty of opportunity and he is wildly inconsistent and brings it once every 4 or 5 games.

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01-08-2007, 02:02 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Tinordi24 View Post
This we agree on.

Zubrus is one of the player McPhee and I agree on. How often does that happen?
I will say this: I love Zubrus at second-line RW, making second-line RW money on a team with the depth to play him there. For the first time in years, the Caps might finally, arguably, have been in a position to play him there next season for depth reasons with an acquisition or two, yet his salary is set to explode. I hate the timing of his development — blossoming right in time for his UFA years.

I like a lot of the things Zubrus can do (but does not do every game), but I absolutely despise the very idea of Zubrus at $5M. He might be able to eke that much out of McPhee and Leonsis.

All my reservations disappear if he takes a compromise salary to be a lifer, but I'm not expecting it.

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01-08-2007, 02:03 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I don't either. But what do you think overpaying Zuby 1.5-2 million per is going to do for this team in 3 or 4 years?losing Zuby would no doubt hurt this team for the next couple years, but signing Zuby to a bad contract would hurt this team 3 or 4 years from now.
What do you think going into the next 2 seasons with Beech/Klepis will do? We certainly wont be a contender and be hard pressed to make the playoffs.

Ovechkin will get frustrated.

Kolzig will retire.

We'll be back to square 1. We can head that off right now by blowing things up or we can sign Zubrus. I think McPhee understands this.

Unless we can sign Drury for 3.5-4 mil for 4 years there is no other option out there that would be close. Drury will make $5 easy tho.

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01-08-2007, 02:04 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
I don't either. But what do you think overpaying Zuby 1.5-2 million per is going to do for this team in 3 or 4 years?

losing Zuby would no doubt hurt this team for the next couple years, but signing Zuby to a bad contract would hurt this team 3 or 4 years from now.
I don't think it will hurt the team as much as you might think. I have a pounding headache right now so I can't think out specifics coherently, but between the people we should be adding and the people we should be cutting out, not to mention salary cap increase the money should be there. I'd rather be in a position of trying to trade zubrus than trying to trade for him. At least if we have him and backstrom, and Ovy with Backstrom doesn't work, we'll at least be able to go to Ovy with Zubrus.

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01-08-2007, 02:05 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
I will say this: I love Zubrus at second-line RW, making second-line RW money on a team with the depth to play him there. For the first time in years, the Caps might finally, arguably, have been in a position to play him there next season for depth reasons with an acquisition or two, yet his salary is set to explode. I hate the timing of his development blossoming right in time for his UFA years.

I like a lot of the things Zubrus can do (but does not do every game), but I absolutely despise the very idea of Zubrus at $5M. He might be able to eke that much out of McPhee and Leonsis.

All my reservations disappear if he takes a compromise salary to be a lifer, but I'm not expecting it.
Out of curiousity ...why not center?

It seems to me that Zubrus has been a better center than RW.

His face off percentage, tho I dont have the stats, appears to have improved greatly and he is a very responsible defensive player too.

What is the hurry to move him to RW? Its not like we have a pipeline of talented centers knocking on the door. Pettinger is doing ok at RW as is Clark. Hopefully Fehr and Flash can break in at some point.

But we have zilch at center outside of Backstrom and Zubrus.

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01-08-2007, 02:05 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Tinordi24 View Post
Unless we can sign Drury for 3.5-4 mil for 4 years there is no other option out there that would be close. Drury will make $5 easy tho.
This may not be universal consensus, but I would take Drury at $5M over Zubrus at the same every day of the week.

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01-08-2007, 02:06 PM
  #87
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If you expect the team to make the playoffs next season (not squeaking in either) and hopefully be one of the sexy/darkhorse picks in 08-09 then you must resign Zubrus...its that simple. Bringing in an equal talent will cost as much or more....

Next season they need to get Backstrom over....hopefully Fehr can earn a spot...and you bring in one D that is better than any current dman on the team.

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01-08-2007, 02:06 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Tinordi24 View Post
Wrong. I LOVE to exagerate!

Gordon sucks. I hate the boy! But..

The Boy>Klepis

I'm not even going to include Beech in this conversation since he is not NHL talent. He should not be on this team period. At least Klepis still has age on his side. Beech has been given plenty of opportunity and he is wildly inconsistent and brings it once every 4 or 5 games.
I like Boyd as a 4th line center, but I am with you that I don;t like Klepis or Beech and I don't think either have any future with this team even if we don't sign Zubrus to an extension.

But I think people are being really short sighted about this Zubrus contract. All people seem to be thinking about is what would happen next year without Zubrus. No one seems to be considering what a giving a 4.5-5 million per for 4 or 5 years contract is going to do for this club in 3, 4 and 5 years from now when they have to start paying others big contracts and have to start trying to add final pieces to hopefully some cup competitive Capitals teams.

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01-08-2007, 02:08 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Tinordi24 View Post
This we agree on.

Zubrus is one of the player McPhee and I agree on. How often does that happen?
let me count.......one.......

once

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01-08-2007, 02:08 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Tinordi24 View Post
What is the hurry to move him to RW? Its not like we have a pipeline of talented centers knocking on the door. Pettinger is doing ok at RW as is Clark. Hopefully Fehr and Flash can break in at some point.
The right is weak. One of those two (Pettinger/Clark) should be playing on the third line RW, but because of depth, the Caps do not have the luxury.

If one of them was there, the checking line might chip in a little offense from time to time. I know you think the team gets plenty of offense elsewhere, but this is a problem. Checking lines score... not as often as do scoring lines, but they are not defense-only lines.

I don't like Zubrus on draws, at all. Again, I would certainly address center if Zubrus either walks or is signed and put back at RW, his natural position. I would simply look outside the organization for a replacement.

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01-08-2007, 02:08 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
This may not be universal consensus, but I would take Drury at $5M over Zubrus at the same every day of the week.
Drury is certainly a Tinner player. But not only will we be paying more for him than Zubrus but I'm not sure if the offensive production will be any better. Drury has great grit but we dont know what kind of chemistry he will have with the team.

We know Zubrus has chemistry. Why risk it AND pay more in doing so? This will also send a bad message to our youngsters...just like Dan Snyder and the skins always do by letting core guys like Pierce, Smoot and Clark go.

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01-08-2007, 02:10 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
The right is weak. One of those two (Pettinger/Clark) should be playing on the third line RW, but because of depth, the Caps do not have the luxury.

If one of them was there, the checking line might chip in a little offense from time to time. I know you think the team gets plenty of offense elsewhere, but this is a problem. Checking lines score... not as often as do scoring lines, but they are not defense-only lines.

I don't like Zubrus on draws, at all.
Clark and Pettinger both netted 20 goals last year and are on pace to do so again this year while being strong physical and defensive factors.

Why do you not include Fehr on the RW? How about Flash?

What about the center position? Who do you plan to go with there? Who in our prospects, outside of Backstrom, has a remote chance to do anything?

Can someone bring up Zubrus Face off pct the last 2 years? Maybe compare it to other guys on the team?

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01-08-2007, 02:12 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Unless you think it is just a fluke that the last two seasons, the two years he has played with Ovechkin, are really the only two where he has put up decent numbers.
They were also the only two years (at least since he became a Cap) that Zubrus was entirely healthy. The fact that he's been in the lineup day in and day out, has to be a contributing factor too. Checking his stats at hockeydb.com, it shows that he performs pretty well when he gets over 70 games in his career.

Mark me down as being someone who'd like to keep Zubrus, as long as he isn't asking for ridiculus money. If it's over 4 mill a season, I say let him walk. The Caps just can't afford that much. Semin and Ovy will want big raises and Kolzig needs to be kept here also. Maybe Olie won't get 5 mill this time around, but it'll still be a hefty chunk of change. Kolzig, Semin, Ovy and Zubrus could eat up about 20 million of cap space easy.

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01-08-2007, 02:12 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
This may not be universal consensus, but I would take Drury at $5M over Zubrus at the same every day of the week.
I'll have to disgree with this one.

Drury, who is on a SIGNIFICANTLY better team than the Capitals has only produced 5 more points than Zubrus in 2 more games played.

Drury his entire career has NEVER been more than a 60 point guy and you want to pay him 5 million for that?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/player...s?playerId=231

What great timing, he's having a career year right before his UFA status. Sounds a lot like Richards situation to me.

Zubrus won't get 5 million. There isnt a chance. No way he could even ask for that. His numbers arent even close to Drury's consistency. Zubrus is injury prone and he'd be foolish to ask for 5 million.

I would rather have Zubrus at 3.5-4 million than Drury at 5.0-5.5 million.

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01-08-2007, 02:13 PM
  #95
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I look outside. If Zubrus walks as a UFA, then you sign a UFA center to replace him.

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01-08-2007, 02:14 PM
  #96
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Zubrus's faceoff % is at 48.5 this season.

It was 50.3 last season.

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01-08-2007, 02:14 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by CapitalPunishment View Post
I would rather have Zubrus at 3.5-4 million than Drury at 5.0-5.5 million.
So would I. As I stated. If he takes a lesser salary, then I'm on board with the Zubrus support movement.

If Drury and Zubrus come in at the same price, though, in the $5M range, I'd take Drury. He plays the same way every game and he gets better and better in the postseason. Drury is a rock, a metronome. You always know what you're getting.

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01-08-2007, 02:17 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Japser17 View Post
Zubrus's faceoff % is at 48.5 this season.

It was 50.3 last season.
But what about the rest of the team. Last year we had Halpern too who was a good face off guy that would take the tough draws. Thats why I wanted the rest of the players on our teams too.

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01-08-2007, 02:18 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Gas House Gorilla View Post
he performs pretty well when he gets over 70 games in his career.
You mean all 3 times he has done that.

1999-2000 he played in 73 games and got 42 points, that is not that good for a top 6 forward.

2001-2002 he played in 71 games and got 43 points, that is not that good for a top 6 forward

2005-2006 he played in 71 games and got 57 points, that is really only averege for a top line forward. But still by far his best year.

Thats a 4.5-5 million dollar man?

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01-08-2007, 02:18 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Drake1588 View Post
So would I. As I stated. If he takes a lesser salary, then I'm on board with the Zubrus support movement.

If Drury and Zubrus come in at the same price, though, in the $5M range, I'd take Drury. He plays the same way every game and he gets better and better in the postseason. Drury is a rock, a metronome. You always know what you're getting.
It would be close but Drury does have a TON of grit and scores big goals when they count.

I'd have to agree with you. HOWEVA..

Drury will get more than that and Zubrus will get less. I'd take Zubrus in that case especially due to the chemistry factor.

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