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Oilers/Sabres Proposal

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Old
12-03-2003, 06:44 AM
  #1
Takeo
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Oilers/Sabres Proposal

To Buffalo:
RW Georges Laraque
D Matthew Greene

To Edmonton:
D Dmitri Kalinin
RW Michael Ryan



I think it meets immediate needs and fills holes in the systems.

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Old
12-03-2003, 06:48 AM
  #2
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I like the proposal... Kalinin could be a guy that fits in nicely on the Oilers blueline...

but can the Sabres afford to give up Kalinin right now? Their defense doesn't seem to have a lot of quality back there (they have numbers, but not many top 4 capable dmen).

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Old
12-03-2003, 06:49 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
To Buffalo:
RW Georges Laraque
D Matthew Greene

To Edmonton:
D Dmitri Kalinin
RW Michael Ryan



I think it meets immediate needs and fills holes in the systems.

I'd honestly prefer Boulton or Peters back, instead of Ryan, if BG was going to Buffalo. We'd need some muscle back.

Don't want to deal Greene really at this point either...the deal could work, but I don't know if I would make it...Ultimately, if Kalinin plays like the other team owes him money, if you know what I mean, I'd be more inclined to make it. Fair value...I'd still swap out Ryan for a goon...but I know nothing about Ryan either...

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Old
12-03-2003, 06:51 AM
  #4
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I think Laraque would be a good fit in Buffalo - and perhaps Lindy would be able to get a little Rob Ray in his attitude?

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12-03-2003, 06:53 AM
  #5
Peter Griffin
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I think the proposal is decent value wise, but like NFITO stated, can the Sabres even afford to move Kalinin? That would leave a defense of Zhitnik(who could be dealt before the year is over), McKee(who has been in the coaches' doghouse), Delmore, Tallinder, Patrick(likely his last season), Fitzpatrick, Campbell, not many guys who have the potential to be a top 3 guy like Kalinin.

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Old
12-03-2003, 07:15 AM
  #6
Takeo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
...can the Sabres afford to give up Kalinin right now? Their defense doesn't seem to have a lot of quality back there (they have numbers, but not many top 4 capable dmen).
If Kalinin is moved, Zhitnik, McKee, Tallinder, and Campbell remain on the left side, a serviceable group. The goalie situation in Buffalo could be resolved by acquiring another defenseman in a subsequent deal. Furthermore, the Sabres system is absolutely bare in quality d-prospects and this proposal addresses that concern.

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12-03-2003, 07:17 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemmer
I'd honestly prefer Boulton or Peters back, instead of Ryan, if BG was going to Buffalo. We'd need some muscle back.
You could always swap Ryan for Thorburn or McMorrow who would be significant upgrades in toughness. Another option would be swapping a prospect for Boulton but I'm not sure the Oil would go for that deal.

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12-03-2003, 07:24 AM
  #8
Hemmer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
You could always swap Ryan for Thorburn or McMorrow who would be significant upgrades in toughness. Another option would be swapping a prospect for Boulton but I'm not sure the Oil would go for that deal.
How about:

Georges Laraque
Matt Greene
4th Rd Pick

Dmitri Kalinin
Michael Ryan
Eric Boulton

Swap Peters in for Boulton and the Oil probably change the pick to a 3rd.

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Old
12-03-2003, 07:26 AM
  #9
Takeo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemmer
How about:

Georges Laraque
Matt Greene
4th Rd Pick

Dmitri Kalinin
Michael Ryan
Eric Boulton
I like it. It's probably a bit closer valuewise than my original proposal.

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Old
12-03-2003, 07:43 AM
  #10
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I like the deal, but doubt it would happen this year with McKee's injury and the ownership pushing Regier to try and make the playoffs this season.

It could happen closer to the deadline if the Sabres opt to grab a rental defenseman or two.........

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12-03-2003, 08:12 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
I like the deal, but doubt it would happen this year with McKee's injury and the ownership pushing Regier to try and make the playoffs this season.
Ownership has all but retracted that ultimatum. That's no excuse anymore for negging deals like these.

Acquiring a guy like Laraque would practically resolve our toughness concerns in one swoop. PETERS--MAIR--LARAQUE. Beautiful.

Moving Kalinin, with McKee hurt, would be questionable. But the D could be addressed in a subsequent deal involving Biron/Noronen.


Last edited by Takeo: 12-03-2003 at 08:15 AM.
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Old
12-03-2003, 08:29 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Ownership has all but retracted that ultimatum. That's no excuse anymore for negging deals like these.
No, Golisano and Quinn said that it wasn't a given that Ruff and/or Regier would get the axe if the Sabres didn't make the playoffs this year. They said that they didn't know where the reports came from that said that Ruff's and Regier's jobs were on the line and that if the team missed the playoffs that "heads would roll".

I haven't read anywhere where either Quinn or Golisano has said that they never made the goal for this season to make the playoffs. Nor have they backed away from reports that they have given Regier the direction to try and do everything he can to make the playoffs this year within the payroll budget that was set in the $30 to 33 million range.

Quote:
Acquiring a guy like Laraque would practically resolve our toughness concerns in one swoop. PETERS--MAIR--LARAQUE. Beautiful.
Laraque only has 24 PIM in 17 games this season. I'm not sure you'd be getting what you expect if you make a trade for him.

He looks to me to have Chris Simon-itis and he isn't willing to be an enforcer anymore and would rather try and be a "power forward". If Laraque isn't dropping the gloves and getting back to being one fo the top enforcers in the game, then I don't know how much he would address the Sabres need to add toughness.

Sure, Laraque is still big and bad. But he doesn't scare people as much as he used to when he isn't dropping the gloves on a regular basis.

Quote:
Moving Kalinin, with McKee hurt, would be questionable. But the D could be addressed in a subsequent deal involving Biron/Noronen.
I don't see a Noronen or Biron deal that would help out the Sabres on the blueline. There is no market for goalies right now.

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Old
12-03-2003, 08:42 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
I think Laraque would be a good fit in Buffalo - and perhaps Lindy would be able to get a little Rob Ray in his attitude?
Would this mean that Laraque would turtle whenever he saw himself in a mirror then?

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Old
12-03-2003, 08:44 AM
  #14
Takeo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
Laraque only has 24 PIM in 17 games this season.
Yeah, what's your point? An enforcer doesn't have to necessarily pile up the penalty minutes...it's his presence on the ice that's most significant. Laraque doesn't fight as much anymore because other players tend to back down. He would, without a doubt, address the Sabres need for added toughness up front and the opposition would quit taking as many liberties with our soft forwards. That's a major asset, and would directly support our aforementioned playoffs "goal."


Last edited by Takeo: 12-03-2003 at 08:48 AM.
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12-03-2003, 09:06 AM
  #15
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If Kalinin is moved the Sabres will regret it for the next decade. It'll be Calle Johansson all over again. The kid has great skills and is capable of logging major ice time. He has a good attitude and responds well to coaches criticism. He's going to be an exceptional dman, possibly even a #1 dman. He should be on that nebulous list of "untouchables" as far as I'm concerned.

I'd love to see Laraque on the Sabres, but I wouldn't offer a guy who I think will be a key part of the Sabres future. Tallinder is expendable, and Peters would be if Laraque were coming back, so I'd be offering those guys. It might be best to wait until the trade deadline and hope the goaltending situation is resolved and use the loser of the competition as bait.

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Old
12-03-2003, 09:13 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
Yeah, what's your point? An enforcer doesn't have to necessarily pile up the penalty minutes...it's his presence on the ice that's most significant. Laraque doesn't fight as much anymore because other players tend to back down. He would, without a doubt, address the Sabres need for added toughness up front and the opposition would quit taking as many liberties with our soft forwards. That's a major asset, and would directly support our aforementioned playoffs "goal."
Georges has only been in 2 fights all year.

The one against Peters and a tilt with Oliwa 2 seconds into the Oilers-Flames game on October 25th that had 6 fights in it.

I just don't believe he's as feared around the league as he used to be when he would go on a much more consistent basis.

I would hope that adding Laraque would address the issues you bring up, but I wouldn't be certain of that.

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12-03-2003, 09:16 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
Georges has only been in 2 fights all year.

The one against Peters and a tilt with Oliwa 2 seconds into the Oilers-Flames game on October 25th that had 6 fights in it.

I just don't believe he's as feared around the league as he used to be when he would go on a much more consistent basis.

I would hope that adding Laraque would address the issues you bring up, but I wouldn't be certain of that.
In the second fight he broke his hand.

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Old
12-03-2003, 09:37 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FacelessButcher
In the second fight he broke his hand.
That's still only 1 fight in 7 games prior to the injury.

I just wonder if he still has the drive needed to be one of the elite enforcers in the game.

Chris Simon lost that drive after having his breakout season on Adam Oates' wing.

And it seemed like Georges was saying some of the same types of things as Simon had last year when Georges was getting time on the Oilers 3rd line.

I hope I'm wrong, I just have my doubts though.

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12-03-2003, 09:38 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arankys
I was also going to mention the hand, it should be healed by now why is he still not fighting?
Also Boulton would not be a good fit in Edmonton if Laraque left so Peters would definetly be the enforcer going the other way since he is the more devastating fighter.
Laraque and Smith
for
Peters,Gaustad, Kalinder

I also think Anaheim wants Laraque with Comrie so that will make an interesting package centered with Chistov, Vishnevsky and maybe Leclerc
Gaustad, along with Roy and Paille, are three Sabres prospects that I hope they hold onto. All three are character guys and should form a solid leadership nucleus for this team in the future.

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Old
12-03-2003, 11:44 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed
If Kalinin is moved the Sabres will regret it for the next decade. It'll be Calle Johansson all over again. The kid has great skills and is capable of logging major ice time. He has a good attitude and responds well to coaches criticism. He's going to be an exceptional dman, possibly even a #1 dman. He should be on that nebulous list of "untouchables" as far as I'm concerned.

I'd love to see Laraque on the Sabres, but I wouldn't offer a guy who I think will be a key part of the Sabres future. Tallinder is expendable, and Peters would be if Laraque were coming back, so I'd be offering those guys. It might be best to wait until the trade deadline and hope the goaltending situation is resolved and use the loser of the competition as bait.
I agree completely. WHile he has been inconsistent, he's only 23, and nobody is really on the horizon. Doug Janik hasn't been able to push Patrick out, and we had to acquire Delmore. Tree can't be dealt unless a better young D-man comes back, like Brewer.

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12-03-2003, 01:08 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arankys
I was also going to mention the hand, it should be healed by now why is he still not fighting?
Also Boulton would not be a good fit in Edmonton if Laraque left so Peters would definetly be the enforcer going the other way since he is the more devastating fighter.
Laraque and Smith
for
Peters,Gaustad, Kalinder

I also think Anaheim wants Laraque with Comrie so that will make an interesting package centered with Chistov, Vishnevsky and maybe Leclerc

You going for Kalinin or Tallinder?

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Old
12-03-2003, 02:06 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
Gaustad, along with Roy and Paille, are three Sabres prospects that I hope they hold onto. All three are character guys and should form a solid leadership nucleus for this team in the future.
In similar fashion, I don't want to see Kalinin or Tallinder dealt out from what is a precariously thin defense corps. Kalinin is finally starting to come into a well-rounded game. He could finally be a viable replacement for Zhitnik if Alexei is moved on or moves on. To deal him now is foolhardy...

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12-03-2003, 02:13 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaloed
If Kalinin is moved the Sabres will regret it for the next decade. It'll be Calle Johansson all over again. The kid has great skills and is capable of logging major ice time. He has a good attitude and responds well to coaches criticism. He's going to be an exceptional dman, possibly even a #1 dman. He should be on that nebulous list of "untouchables" as far as I'm concerned.

I'd love to see Laraque on the Sabres, but I wouldn't offer a guy who I think will be a key part of the Sabres future. Tallinder is expendable, and Peters would be if Laraque were coming back, so I'd be offering those guys. It might be best to wait until the trade deadline and hope the goaltending situation is resolved and use the loser of the competition as bait.
I agree completely. This kid is the future of the Sabres blueline. I'd trade anyone before him.

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12-03-2003, 02:54 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arankys
I was also going to mention the hand, it should be healed by now why is he still not fighting?
It's called the instigator rule. If Laraque is going to fight, somebody's going to have to fight back, and nobody wants to do that.

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Old
12-03-2003, 02:55 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N.Y. Orangeman
I agree completely. This kid is the future of the Sabres blueline. I'd trade anyone before him.
I must admit, I was pretty surprised to see Buffalo fans offering up Kalinin in a trade. But hey, Edmonton will definitely take him.

I actually think the more realisitc trade would be George Laraque and Ferguson for Mckee.

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