HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Calgary Flames
Notices

OT: driving in western canada in February

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-09-2007, 09:43 AM
  #1
gamera
Registered User
 
gamera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kovalchuk Army HQ
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 6,476
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to gamera Send a message via AIM to gamera Send a message via MSN to gamera Send a message via Yahoo to gamera
OT: driving in western canada in February

I posted a similar thread on the Canucks board and figured I'd ask at both ends, so to speak.

My friends and I are going to try to come up for the Thrashers/Canucks game in Feb and then drive from there to Calgary for our game there.

I learned to drive in Atlanta, and have lived here most of my life, so my snow driving experience is very limited...but I do have SOME and I know how to be careful LOL

how do you think the roads will be between Vancouver and Calgary that time of year? passable? I'm sure with the plows and sand and stuff, things will be moving, barring any huge blizzards or whathaveyou.

any advice would be appreciated!


gamera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 09:46 AM
  #2
PuckNut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,716
vCash: 500
The roads between Vancouver and Calgary go through the mountains. That time of year, they are usually horrible, barring unseasonable warmth. Map out your route well and expect to take a few hours longer than you would think because going through the mountains sucks when the roads are slick.

Some advice would be to pack an emergency kit. Grab a shovel, some kitty litter, a blanket, and of course warm clothes, in case you hit the ditch.

PuckNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 09:49 AM
  #3
gamera
Registered User
 
gamera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kovalchuk Army HQ
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 6,476
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to gamera Send a message via AIM to gamera Send a message via MSN to gamera Send a message via Yahoo to gamera
good god man....perhaps we'll look into flying. thanks so much for the info!!

my friend doesn't have a passport but that shouldn't matter between canadian cities...

wow...thanks!!!


gamera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 09:53 AM
  #4
PuckNut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamera View Post
good god man....perhaps we'll look into flying. thanks so much for the info!!

my friend doesn't have a passport but that shouldn't matter between canadian cities...

wow...thanks!!!

It all depends on the weather man. Flying is a good option, but with limited experience in regards to driving in the snow, it's definitely safer and quicker. Are you planning on renting a car and driving, or are you driving to Van first? If you're driving to Van, all you have to remember is to take your time. If your careful, you'll more than likely be able to do it.

PuckNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 09:59 AM
  #5
komisakick ass
Registered User
 
komisakick ass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Top Titty, Qc
Posts: 733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamera View Post
good god man....perhaps we'll look into flying. thanks so much for the info!!

my friend doesn't have a passport but that shouldn't matter between canadian cities...

wow...thanks!!!

I'm from Montreal I went there last summer and the road between those 2 cities got to be one of the most beautiful on the planet. It's so nice. I think you got to be carefull for the avalanche to, but if you are really carefull it defenitly worth it.

komisakick ass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 10:12 AM
  #6
gamera
Registered User
 
gamera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kovalchuk Army HQ
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 6,476
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to gamera Send a message via AIM to gamera Send a message via MSN to gamera Send a message via Yahoo to gamera
well we're flying into seattle, renting a car, and driving up to vancouver because my friend doesn't have a passport and i think you need one if you're flying...(right?) but still ok with just driver's license if driving...

so yeah, we'll have a rented car.

and as beautiful as it sounds, i think we'll take in the sights from an airplane summertime i'd be all for driving...but this is FEBRUARY we're talking about here... I did actually drive from Atlanta to Vancouver a couple of summers ago and it was awesome.

thanks y'all!!

gamera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 10:22 AM
  #7
Danny__K
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,143
vCash: 50
Seriously have to question if Pucknut has ever done this route before, because unless you go through in the middle of a storm its not that bad. 80% of the drive willl probably be on clear and dry roads. In amoung the ski resorts you can expect that there might be some drifting snow and slippery sections. You won't be going the full speed limit in this area however, assuming a rental car comes with decent tires it shouldnt be a problem.

For up to date highway conditions.

http://theweathernetwork.ca/features/hwycond/index.htm

Danny__K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 10:27 AM
  #8
PuckNut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,716
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny__K View Post
Seriously have to question if Pucknut has ever done this route before, because unless you go through in the middle of a storm its not that bad. 80% of the drive willl probably be on clear and dry roads. In amoung the ski resorts you can expect that there might be some drifting snow and slippery sections. You won't be going the full speed limit in this area however, assuming a rental car comes with decent tires it shouldnt be a problem.

For up to date highway conditions.

http://theweathernetwork.ca/features/hwycond/index.htm
I've done it before, I guess I've just been really unlucky the times that I have.

PuckNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 10:37 AM
  #9
sk84fun_dc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,360
vCash: 500
As a US east coaster that has made portions of the drive and recently made the 3 city western Canadian hockey swing, I have to say depending on how much time you have, I would fly between the cities; and a one way ticket on aircanada is pretty reasonable, even for two people. (edit: actually, as I think about our driving in October more, I have to say fly).

Yes, the drive is beautiful, but the weather, time, etc., have to be factored into the decision. Also, if that gives you more time in both cities, you can spend time in Vancouver and then while in Calgary, you can rent a car and drive up to Banff National Park, and Jasper via the Icefields Parkway if you want to see some beaufitul scenery, etc. (edit: this option allows you to adjust for weather conditions, etc.)

If I were you I would price out a multicity airplane ticket (Atlanta-Vancouver-Calgary-Atlanta) and check on the need for a passport. I know they were delaying when the date was you would definitely need one to travel between the US and Canada. I have one and agree it is safer to travel with one, but you may want to check on if it is a necessity on those dates. One of my travel partners in October carried his birth certificate since he did not have a passport and we did not have any trouble. Also, I believe your friend would still have time to get a passport and it is not very expensive given how long they are valid.

OT: I did as much snow driving on our October trip as I had done in a number of years based in the DC area and growing up in NJ. We had snow in Colorado, rain in Vancouver, snow in Edmonton and again in Calgary. Made for an entertaining and scenic trip although the driving was precarious at times. Overall, an awesome trip both from a hockey and a tourism perspective!

OT2: Have an awesome trip!


Last edited by sk84fun_dc: 01-09-2007 at 10:54 AM.
sk84fun_dc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 10:45 AM
  #10
puck_08
Registered User
 
puck_08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 655
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny__K View Post
Seriously have to question if Pucknut has ever done this route before, because unless you go through in the middle of a storm its not that bad. 80% of the drive willl probably be on clear and dry roads. In amoung the ski resorts you can expect that there might be some drifting snow and slippery sections. You won't be going the full speed limit in this area however, assuming a rental car comes with decent tires it shouldnt be a problem.

For up to date highway conditions.

http://theweathernetwork.ca/features/hwycond/index.htm
I don't think that is a very good assumtion.. I would make sure to request that ahead of time.

Also, you should make sure that you can still get over the border without a passport in February.. it would probably be easier to just get a passport.. They don't take that long to get..

If I was you, I would fly between cities.. Why take the risk that there is a storm, or very icy conditions, if you are not used to it? That being said, it should be okay, if you are careful and drive carefully with a car equipped for winter driving.

puck_08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 12:17 PM
  #11
gamera
Registered User
 
gamera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kovalchuk Army HQ
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 6,476
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to gamera Send a message via AIM to gamera Send a message via MSN to gamera Send a message via Yahoo to gamera
well I have a passport...it is my friend who does not...and i'm not sure there is time to get one at this point and she doesn't want to pay the extra $$ to have it expedited.

my understanding is that as of jan 07, a passport is necessary for air travel between countries only

as of now, no passport is required to pass between the us & canada by land or sea and this holds until at least jan 08

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2006/76752.htm

edit: just out of curiosity....how's the drive between seattle and vancouver in the winter? i've only done it in the summer...we must definitely drive across the border...perhaps someone on the canucks board could better answer that one

thanks for all your help and suggestions!


Last edited by gamera: 01-09-2007 at 12:23 PM.
gamera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 12:36 PM
  #12
sk84fun_dc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,360
vCash: 500
I can't imagine you would have any problems driving between Seattle and Vancouver (the normal weather is not the same as we are discussing driving through the mountains between Vancouver and Calgary), but it makes sense to ask on the Vancouver boards.

About the passport, reading the attachment, you are correct about air travel starting last week; I know they delayed some of the land dates as evidenced by the info below and are considering delaying them even longer. I know it is not your decision, but your friend should consider filing the application on the regular schedule; there is always the chance it arrives in time.

I see Atlanta plays the Oilers on that same trip, too; not crazy enough to do the 3 games in 4 nights It actually looks very similar to the Caps trip in October with a game in Colorado 2 days earlier, too.

http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/c...bpmc_2223.html

sk84fun_dc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 12:46 PM
  #13
Tont
Registered User
 
Tont's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 774
vCash: 503
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamera View Post
well I have a passport...it is my friend who does not...and i'm not sure there is time to get one at this point and she doesn't want to pay the extra $$ to have it expedited.

my understanding is that as of jan 07, a passport is necessary for air travel between countries only

as of now, no passport is required to pass between the us & canada by land or sea and this holds until at least jan 08

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2006/76752.htm

edit: just out of curiosity....how's the drive between seattle and vancouver in the winter? i've only done it in the summer...we must definitely drive across the border...perhaps someone on the canucks board could better answer that one

thanks for all your help and suggestions!
The drive between Seattle and Van should not be an issue at all for you and your friend. As for between Van and Calgary, it's a drive I've made dozens of times in varying conditions, and it's never been impassible. If the weather's nice, you definitely won't be sorry you drove; if it's not, you probably will be.

I suppose for a trip like yours where you have to make it to Calgary in time for the game, flying wouldn't be such a bad idea. Terrible shame to miss some of that scenery though....

Good luck on your trip, and would be glad to answer any other questions you may have on at least the Calgary area(lived there for 20 years)

Ciao!

Tont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 12:56 PM
  #14
gamera
Registered User
 
gamera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kovalchuk Army HQ
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 6,476
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to gamera Send a message via AIM to gamera Send a message via MSN to gamera Send a message via Yahoo to gamera
yeah we were going to try to make the edmonton game but it is the very next day and a DAY game so, unless we rode on the thrashers charter, I don't think we could make it....

believe me, I've asked...lol (8 road games so far this season...and counting)

gamera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 01:09 PM
  #15
sk84fun_dc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,360
vCash: 500
Didn't realize it was a day game, I thought the game started in the early evening...that would be pretty difficult if it was a day game...our 4 game itinerary from October (there have been other trips, but this was the main one for this season), exhausting when you are travelling on your own and not on a charter with arrangements made for you

Wed, fly to Colorado, game
Thu, fly to Vancouver (after snow delays in Denver)
Fri, game
Sat, fly to Edmonton, game
Sun, fly to Calgary, Hitmen game (snow pretty bad so we went to the Hitmen game instead of driving to Banff as planned)
Mon, Banff, game
Tue, fly home

rest of week: sleep and try to remember what time zone we were in...along with changing time zones for Col, Vanc and Edmonton, and returning home plus we travelled to Calgary on the day the clocks changed

There are plenty of Calgary and Vancouver posters that should be able to help you out with information; if you want more information from the perspective of someone who just did this trip and had been to both cities before as a tourist let me know. Again, have a great trip.

sk84fun_dc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 01:13 PM
  #16
gamera
Registered User
 
gamera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kovalchuk Army HQ
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 6,476
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to gamera Send a message via AIM to gamera Send a message via MSN to gamera Send a message via Yahoo to gamera
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk84fun_dc View Post
Didn't realize it was a day game, I thought the game started in the early evening...that would be pretty difficult if it was a day game...our 4 game itinerary from October (there have been other trips, but this was the main one for this season), exhausting when you are travelling on your own and not on a charter with arrangements made for you

Wed, fly to Colorado, game
Thu, fly to Vancouver (after snow delays in Denver)
Fri, game
Sat, fly to Edmonton, game
Sun, fly to Calgary, Hitmen game (snow pretty bad so we went to the Hitmen game instead of driving to Banff as planned)
Mon, Banff, game
Tue, fly home

rest of week: sleep and try to remember what time zone we were in...along with changing time zones for Col, Vanc and Edmonton, and returning home plus we travelled to Calgary on the day the clocks changed

There are plenty of Calgary and Vancouver posters that should be able to help you out with information; if you want more information from the perspective of someone who just did this trip and had been to both cities before as a tourist let me know. Again, have a great trip.
well my friend has informed me that she is doing both vancouver and edmonton...so i'll see how she finagled that....maybe there's a red-eye or something? i don't think she has a private plane LOL

Since Dec 20, I've been to NYC, NJ, Tampa, Buffalo, Ottawa, and DC for games (and of course, Atlanta)....some by plane, some by RV (Buffalo/Ottawa by RV). I love it! Easy though cuz it's all been Eastern Time Zone travel. heading West is actually easy cuz you gain an hour, but coming back the other way sucks...

oh, that's only NHL games....seen a couple AHL games in Chicago LOL

just checked again...10:30 (EST) start in Vancouver; 8:30 (EST) start in Edmonton...are they in the same time zone?? in any case, it's an early evening game in Edmonton, not quite a "day" game as I had thought...maybe this is doable after all...good god.


Last edited by gamera: 01-09-2007 at 01:21 PM.
gamera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 01:20 PM
  #17
sk84fun_dc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamera View Post
well my friend has informed me that she is doing both vancouver and edmonton...so i'll see how she finagled that....maybe there's a red-eye or something? i don't think she has a private plane LOL

Since Dec 20, I've been to NYC, NJ, Tampa, Buffalo, Ottawa, and DC for games (and of course, Atlanta)....some by plane, some by RV (Buffalo/Ottawa by RV). I love it! Easy though cuz it's all been Eastern Time Zone travel. heading West is actually easy cuz you gain an hour, but coming back the other way sucks...

oh, that's only NHL games....seen a couple AHL games in Chicago LOL
yes, I understand about hockey travels, I am sure many others here do, too

Looking at the Thrashers schedule and knowing that there are direct flights on AirCanada between Vancouver and Edmonton, you should be able to make both games (the schedule is almost identical to when the Caps played there - picking up tickets was more challenging than getting to the cities in time as long as snow delays in Edmonton are not bad).

sk84fun_dc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 01:23 PM
  #18
gamera
Registered User
 
gamera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kovalchuk Army HQ
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 6,476
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to gamera Send a message via AIM to gamera Send a message via MSN to gamera Send a message via Yahoo to gamera
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk84fun_dc View Post
yes, I understand about hockey travels, I am sure many others here do, too

Looking at the Thrashers schedule and knowing that there are direct flights on AirCanada between Vancouver and Edmonton, you should be able to make both games (the schedule is almost identical to when the Caps played there - picking up tickets was more challenging than getting to the cities in time as long as snow delays in Edmonton are not bad).
awesome



now I just gotta make sure I can get all that time off work...believe it or not, I have a job! lol

looking forward to it and thanks again for all your help!

gamera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 10:31 PM
  #19
Insta
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Insta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,319
vCash: 500
I would make the drive. It is one of the most beautiful drives in the world scenic-wise. Just be careful if there is a snowstorm or anything. then you will need to drive slow and be careful. You should pack some things just in case but there is not much chance anything bad will happen. People are going through the mountains 24/7 for skiing or whatever else so it is not like you will be the only ones on some deserted roads. Just my 2 cents anyways...

You may also want to check out Greyhound or another bus company if you want to take the scenic route without any worry about the driving. Just a thought.

Insta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 10:50 PM
  #20
gamera
Registered User
 
gamera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kovalchuk Army HQ
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 6,476
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to gamera Send a message via AIM to gamera Send a message via MSN to gamera Send a message via Yahoo to gamera
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insta View Post
I would make the drive. It is one of the most beautiful drives in the world scenic-wise. Just be careful if there is a snowstorm or anything. then you will need to drive slow and be careful. You should pack some things just in case but there is not much chance anything bad will happen. People are going through the mountains 24/7 for skiing or whatever else so it is not like you will be the only ones on some deserted roads. Just my 2 cents anyways...

You may also want to check out Greyhound or another bus company if you want to take the scenic route without any worry about the driving. Just a thought.
good point about greyhound....we'd definitely need to fly between vancouver and edmonton though as there just isn't enough time to drive it

thanks for all your responses...everyone has been very helpful! when we come up there, i'll buy ya a beer

gamera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2007, 10:55 PM
  #21
Transported Upstater
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Take care, all. :)
Country: United States
Posts: 22,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamera View Post
well we're flying into seattle, renting a car, and driving up to vancouver because my friend doesn't have a passport and i think you need one if you're flying...(right?) but still ok with just driver's license if driving...
Yup.

We now need a passport to fly to Canada, but our driver's licenses are still good for crossing the border by car (until sometime in 2008 I think.)

Transported Upstater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2007, 04:00 PM
  #22
puck_08
Registered User
 
puck_08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 655
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamera View Post
well my friend has informed me that she is doing both vancouver and edmonton...so i'll see how she finagled that....maybe there's a red-eye or something? i don't think she has a private plane LOL

Since Dec 20, I've been to NYC, NJ, Tampa, Buffalo, Ottawa, and DC for games (and of course, Atlanta)....some by plane, some by RV (Buffalo/Ottawa by RV). I love it! Easy though cuz it's all been Eastern Time Zone travel. heading West is actually easy cuz you gain an hour, but coming back the other way sucks...

oh, that's only NHL games....seen a couple AHL games in Chicago LOL

just checked again...10:30 (EST) start in Vancouver; 8:30 (EST) start in Edmonton...are they in the same time zone?? in any case, it's an early evening game in Edmonton, not quite a "day" game as I had thought...maybe this is doable after all...good god.
Sounds like a lot of fun!

Vancouver and Edmonton are not in the same time zone.. Vancouver is Pacific (-3 hours from EST) and Edmonton is Mountain (-2 hours from EST).. so the games are 7:30 in Vancouver time, and 6:30 in Edmonton time..

puck_08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2007, 02:47 PM
  #23
gamera
Registered User
 
gamera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kovalchuk Army HQ
Country: Vietnam
Posts: 6,476
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to gamera Send a message via AIM to gamera Send a message via MSN to gamera Send a message via Yahoo to gamera
AIR CANADA prices

OK, so I've decided to fly....and i'm going to try to convince my friend to get her damn passport expedited because, believe it or not, it's a helluva lot cheaper if we can fly into canada...and Air Canada is WAAAAY cheaper than Delta...

that being said, I was checking flights on Air Canada this morning and wrote them down (van/edm $88, edm/cgy $59, cgy/van $71) and just now i checked again (cuz last time I didn't go "all the way" and get to where they add the fees and stuff and I wanted to know that) and now those very same flights are alot cheaper!! what gives? it's now van/edm $67, edm/cgy $42, cgy/van $59...is it cheaper to book fights after 3 pm or something? (Eastern time)

I'm confused.

yes, according to the us state dept, a passport is only needed for air travel at this point in time; land and sea are OK with just a photo ID.

gamera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2007, 03:15 PM
  #24
Ti-girl
Registered User
 
Ti-girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Merida, Mexico
Country: Mexico
Posts: 7,913
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Ti-girl Send a message via Yahoo to Ti-girl
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamera View Post
OK, so I've decided to fly....and i'm going to try to convince my friend to get her damn passport expedited because, believe it or not, it's a helluva lot cheaper if we can fly into canada...and Air Canada is WAAAAY cheaper than Delta...

that being said, I was checking flights on Air Canada this morning and wrote them down (van/edm $88, edm/cgy $59, cgy/van $71) and just now i checked again (cuz last time I didn't go "all the way" and get to where they add the fees and stuff and I wanted to know that) and now those very same flights are alot cheaper!! what gives? it's now van/edm $67, edm/cgy $42, cgy/van $59...is it cheaper to book fights after 3 pm or something? (Eastern time)

I'm confused.

yes, according to the us state dept, a passport is only needed for air travel at this point in time; land and sea are OK with just a photo ID.

Prime time is early in the day so the prices flucuate. It could also be a seat sale, AC never tells anyone. (Im a travel agent and be damned if I know anything.)

Also give westjet a shot. Better planes, better staff, usually cheaperflights. www.westjet.com

__________________
"I channeled my inner Morneau, took the stick and hit the mother****** to the moooon!"
Ti-girl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2007, 03:15 PM
  #25
sk84fun_dc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 16,360
vCash: 500
perhaps one version was USD the other in CAD?

sk84fun_dc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.