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Old
01-11-2007, 12:43 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Gator View Post
Carried away! You're the one who said this guy was finished.

While I'm not a big fan of his defensive game, I think it is safe to say that Nedved is bringing more than MAP or JFJ can, currently. More than you ever gave him credit for (and have yet to utter a good word about him because it burns you inside to be wrong).
There are some people who would rather be right just so they can say ''I told you so''

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01-11-2007, 12:43 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by PunjabiOil View Post
I would say he's the most defensively responsible out of the 3 linemates
I wouldn't.

While Hemmer and Sykora turn the puck over more, you generally don't see them skating up the ice when the other team is skating at their net.

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01-11-2007, 12:44 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
I wouldn't.

While Hemmer and Sykora turn the puck over more, you generally don't see them skating up the ice when the other team is skating at their net.
Well, regardless....he's played pretty solid in his 4 games here - wouldn't you agree?

Much better option than Toby Peterson, who put up a mere 1-2 points, -5 rating in his time on the 4th line

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01-11-2007, 12:55 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Gator View Post
Carried away! You're the one who said this guy was finished.
I was referring to the part about him playing well defensively.

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While I'm not a big fan of his defensive game, I think it is safe to say that Nedved is bringing more than MAP or JFJ can, currently.
Certainly more than JFJ anyways... but I think given the same opportunity, Pouliot would be able to play at the same level Nedved currently is. And Petersen on that line, while not putting up any points, was able to at the very least be defensively responsible.

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More than you ever gave him credit for (and have yet to utter a good word about him because it burns you inside to be wrong).
I said earlier that this was by far their best game as a unit.

As for being wrong...

He's got 2 points in 4 games, is a -1, has been on the ice for 1PPGF in 11 minutes. So he hasn't helped out the PP at all, he has had issues in his own end, and he's playing with our most dynamic offensive player and hasn't shown much offensively.

I'd say it's a little early to be saying I'm wrong.

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01-11-2007, 12:58 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Oilerfan_55 View Post
I would easily rather see peterson in the lineup over nedved... and it isnt even really a close decision.
Good thing you don't make that decision. Watch Flames hockey if that's the type of hockey you like.

Nedved QB'ing the second PP unit looks like it'll be a good thing. He sees the ice better than Horc, and is more capable of creating offense. If we can establish some solid blue line support on that second unit I think it will start to find some success. This is special teams depth that will pay off.

While Toby has more hussle, I haven't seen anything to suggest Nedved is more defensively liable. Nedved's lazy/slow play occasionaly doesn't seem to be any more defensively liable than when Toby's speed catches him on a momentum swing or his size has him getting out muscled.

And certainly with Hemsky and Sykora, Nedved has looked a more natural fit than did Toby. Surely ypu can admit that?

I, like you, would much rather see 94-10-83 get more ES shifts, as I think Hemsky isn't getting enough minutes. At least until Sykora finds the midas touch again (please).

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01-11-2007, 12:58 AM
  #31
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Unfortunately there are some on this board who have a hard time admitting when they're wrong. Nedved and the line in general have improved game after game. Nedved is showing passion, and even a little grit! He even admitted that he would have to get used to the extra skating in the Oilers system. IMO once he gets his conditioning up he'll be even more effective for the Oil cause skating is what has been missing from Petr's game this year. It was a risk picking Nedved up, but it looks at this point as if KLowe is showing his GM smarts once again.

As for taking Hemsky off that line and putting Lupul on, I think Hemsky is the glue that makes that line go. You can see thier timing and awareness of each other on the ice keeps getting better. They could really gel if given the chance. Lupuls shown that he pretty much brings any line he plays with down. Keep double shifting Hemmer if you have to, but keep the Czech-Mates together.

Overall the forward lines are looking pretty good right now.

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01-11-2007, 01:03 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PunjabiOil View Post
Well, regardless....he's played pretty solid in his 4 games here - wouldn't you agree?
No I wouldn't agree.

He's matched up with Hemsky and against the other teams 4th line and he's done piss all offensively. Not only that, but he's been one of the primary culprits on some pretty bad defensive breakdowns because he simply doesn't follow his man.

Today was the first good game he's had.

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Much better option than Toby Peterson, who put up a mere 1-2 points, -5 rating in his time on the 4th line
This isn't the Oilers 4th line though. And Toby Peterson has seen about as much PP time in 28 games as Nedved has in 4...

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01-11-2007, 01:03 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by 21Gator View Post
Good thing you don't make that decision. Watch Flames hockey if that's the type of hockey you like.

Nedved QB'ing the second PP unit looks like it'll be a good thing. He sees the ice better than Horc, and is more capable of creating offense. If we can establish some solid blue line support on that second unit I think it will start to find some success. This is special teams depth that will pay off.

While Toby has more hussle, I haven't seen anything to suggest Nedved is more defensively liable. Nedved's lazy/slow play occasionaly doesn't seem to be any more defensively liable than when Toby's speed catches him on a momentum swing or his size has him getting out muscled.

And certainly with Hemsky and Sykora, Nedved has looked a more natural fit than did Toby. Surely ypu can admit that?

I, like you, would much rather see 94-10-83 get more ES shifts, as I think Hemsky isn't getting enough minutes. At least until Sykora finds the midas touch again (please).
Yeah, it must be reallly painful for those flames fans to watch a team that wins as many games as they do. I feel really bad for them. I would never want to have to experience that. You are right, play nedved, so we can see 1 semi-hilight reel goal every month or so, and brag to flames fans how their team could never score a beauty like that!!

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01-11-2007, 01:03 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post

As for being wrong...

He's got 2 points in 4 games, is a -1, has been on the ice for 1PPGF in 11 minutes. So he hasn't helped out the PP at all, he has had issues in his own end, and he's playing with our most dynamic offensive player and hasn't shown much offensively.

I'd say it's a little early to be saying I'm wrong.
I have to take issue with the PP point. The stats may not support it yet, but the PP has looked FAR more dangerous with Nedved on it. It gives the Oilers 2 legitimate side-board QB's instead of one. As for him having issues in his own end, which Oiler hasn't? At LEAST Nedved has attempted a few bodychecks in his own zone, not like Horcoff or Lupul. As for the offense... the passing and cycling of the Czech's has been pretty solid so far and have been generating chances, and they will start to put up points if they continue to play that way.

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01-11-2007, 01:07 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 21Gator View Post
While Toby has more hussle, I haven't seen anything to suggest Nedved is more defensively liable. Nedved's lazy/slow play occasionaly doesn't seem to be any more defensively liable than when Toby's speed catches him on a momentum swing or his size has him getting out muscled.
Or when Toby is on the PK at a critical point in the game and fans on a clearing attempt when the puck is right in front of him, leading to a goal and a complete turn of momentum against the Oil.

Toby is in the PB because he became defensively liable, and he has ZERO offensive upside. That made him a waste of a roster spot.

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01-11-2007, 01:09 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by jet228 View Post
I have to take issue with the PP point. The stats may not support it yet, but the PP has looked FAR more dangerous with Nedved on it. It gives the Oilers 2 legitimate side-board QB's instead of one.
The PP looks more dangerous because Smyth and Hemsky are back. Nedved is not on the first unit, and the 2nd unit has had one PP (3rd period today) where it has managed to generate anything.

In fact, I don't think it's gotten a shot on goal before today's game.

Quote:
As for him having issues in his own end, which Oiler hasn't? At LEAST Nedved has attempted a few bodychecks in his own zone, not like Horcoff or Lupul. As for the offense... the passing and cycling of the Czech's has been pretty solid so far and have been generating chances, and they will start to put up points if they continue to play that way.
Lupul is on the **** list too, and so was Horcoff when he went on that stretch of about 10 games when he continually left his man.

And bodychecks aren't the issue. You can play good defence without throwing a hit. The problem is he leaves his man. Nedved randomly just leaves his man and goes for a skate.

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01-11-2007, 01:14 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
I was referring to the part about him playing well defensively.
You don't see the irony in someone who said a player was finished, was now bickering over how defensively resposible he is? Maybe it's just me.


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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Certainly more than JFJ anyways... but I think given the same opportunity, Pouliot would be able to play at the same level Nedved currently is. And Petersen on that line, while not putting up any points, was able to at the very least be defensively responsible.
But Nedved allows us to have a decent 2nd PP unit, and is more or less a wash (considering points and plus/minus) in terms of production (so far). If the 2nd PP starts to get something going, Nedved will be infinately more valuable than Toby to this team. This is the shot Nedved is getting.

MAP wouldn't bring the same PP abilities.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
I said earlier that this was by far their best game as a unit.

As for being wrong...

He's got 2 points in 4 games, is a -1, has been on the ice for 1PPGF in 11 minutes. So he hasn't helped out the PP at all, he has had issues in his own end, and he's playing with our most dynamic offensive player and hasn't shown much offensively.

I'd say it's a little early to be saying I'm wrong.
I guess you think you're watching a finished hockey player.

Nedved has been eased into the PP, getting limited minutes as either a second unit QB or on a 5 on 3. Tonight was the first game where him QB'ing has started to look good, and was given time. This is much better than watching Horc gain the zone and then getting stuck in the corner burning valuable PP time.

At ES, I think the first couple games Nedved's skating and positioning were off, but they showed some chemistry. Lately Nedved has looked much more like he can get Hemsky more goals rather than help Sykora. Petr has made some neat breakout passes. Sykora puzzles me.

Rregardless, Nedved is not finished and has hockey left. Certainly for $611K it is value full.

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01-11-2007, 01:19 AM
  #38
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Pouliot wouldnt play half as well on that line. These guys have chemistry with each other that is obvious. I understand some peoples biases cant be lifted, maybe because some of you actually want to see him fail, but every game he has stepped up his play and that line has been dangerous for a couple games now. Personally I think Sykora hasnt been pulling his weight lately. Nedved at least set up a couple chances for Hemmer and almost put one in from the slot, Sykora has almost been invisible. You can tell he's gettin his legs back and I'd say we have found someone to fit with Hemmer and Sykie. I have no problem with Mac T shortening the bench at the end of tight games to put out the Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky line, but remember, it was the czech mates who got us atleast a point in that Vancouver game.

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01-11-2007, 01:22 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post

Today was the first good game he's had.
Guess you missed last friday's game against Vancouver. He was the main reason Sykora scored.

He was the best player on the 2nd line against L.A too.

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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
This isn't the Oilers 4th line though. And Toby Peterson has seen about as much PP time in 28 games as Nedved has in 4...
Toby played on the 2nd line for a long stretch - and contributed little.


It's no big deal to admit you were wrong on Nedved being a poor move and that he's finished.

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01-11-2007, 01:23 AM
  #40
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Speakin of Czech's, how about that Jan Hejda? The guy has played unreal since being put back in the line up and his play is starting to improve Gators too. Gator and him were solid in the D zone tonight. Jan Hejda played joe T and Patty M hard and kept them off the scoreboard.

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01-11-2007, 01:25 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Oilerfan_55 View Post
Yeah, it must be reallly painful for those flames fans to watch a team that wins as many games as they do. I feel really bad for them. I would never want to have to experience that. You are right, play nedved, so we can see 1 semi-hilight reel goal every month or so, and brag to flames fans how their team could never score a beauty like that!!
Wow, closet flames fan.

For the 5 more wins they had over us last year and the 2 they have this year, I would unequivocally make that sacrifice to not watch some of the most boring hockey ever played. Hockey is a business and should be entertaining. Admittedly they are much better this year, but don't we have enough hard work and grit in Horc, Pisani, Smyth, Stoll, Reasoner and Moreau (when healthy)? Do we really need to add Toby to that mix or is it a better option to have a PP QB?


Last edited by 21Gator*: 01-11-2007 at 01:34 AM.
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01-11-2007, 01:33 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PunjabiOil View Post
Guess you missed last friday's game against Vancouver. He was the main reason Sykora scored.
Yeah, Hemsky fed him a great pass in the slot and he got a good shot off. He was also the guy who left Boucher all alone which eventually
allowed Tjarnqvist to score in the game against Dallas to get the comeback going.

Roli also bailed him out twice against Vancouver.

Quote:
He was the best player on the 2nd line against L.A too.
That whole line sucked against LA. Nedved certainly didn't contribute to them doing anything positive in that game.

Quote:
Toby played on the 2nd line for a long stretch - and contributed little.

It's no big deal to admit you were wrong on Nedved being a poor move and that he's finished.
It's 4 games.

I'm not even going to comment again on this topic for the next month. By then we'll have a pretty good idea of what Nedved actually is.


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01-11-2007, 01:36 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post
Yeah, Hemsky fed him a great pass in the slot and he got a good shot off.
Don't give him any credit for finding some open space in the slot

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01-11-2007, 01:39 AM
  #44
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There line certainly didnt suck against LA. They were the only ones who cold hold any type of offensive pressure in the Kings zone in the first period.

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01-11-2007, 01:54 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by dawgbone View Post

It's 4 games.

.
You're right. It's been 4 games - wouldn't that indicate you should be willing to give the guy a chance to settle here with new linemates, new city, new team, instead of trying to minimize any impact he's had on the team?

I don't think it's unfair to say that you want to see him fail, just so that you can say, ''I was right.''

I think it was first intermission in the Dallas game, that you reported a defensive mistake by Nedved - his first game as an Oiler. It's like a ''Hey everybody, Nedved made a mistake...I was right.'' That, coupled with your reluctance to give any credit whatsoever to Nedved for his positive plays....and singling him out (Sykora, Hemsky have been poor on ES in the past 4 games)...that's pretty much illustrates it.

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01-11-2007, 02:11 AM
  #46
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I have a question, why are people talking as if Nedved still needs to get his conditioning back? From what I can tell, it's not really like he's been sitting around ala Jason Allison all year.

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01-11-2007, 03:03 AM
  #47
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I have a question, why are people talking as if Nedved still needs to get his conditioning back? From what I can tell, it's not really like he's been sitting around ala Jason Allison all year.
Does playing for the Flyers really constitute being in "game shape?"

In all seriousness, judging from Nedved's comments, it might be because the Flyers' system doesn't really employ the centerman as a skating puck retriever/carrier. I would infer that they use their centers as board and slot presence while the wingers carry the puck up the ice more often than in Edmonton. I don't watch enough Flyers' games to say this with any kind of authority or certainty, but that would be my guess.

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01-11-2007, 03:16 AM
  #48
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Still, it's not like he wouldn't be skating in practices, or even during the game. It'd just be more of a different system.

Same goes for his time in the AHL.

If this sort of thing is a consideration, then that would mean that whenever we consider a trade, we'd have to wonder if they were properly conditioned. I mean, why trade for Pitkanen, maybe the Philly system leaves their defensemen out of shape too. Same with Visnovsky and Los Angeles.

I'm not buying it. If a player plays, and probably more importantly practices, on a semi-daily basis with a professional hockey club, chances are he's going to have most of his conditioning. I'd be very surprised if any team had a system that allowed a player to be significantly out of shape and still get playing time.

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01-11-2007, 10:30 AM
  #49
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Will DB ever admit he was wrong about Petr Nedved? I'd be surprised to see it, he seems a bit stubborn when he gets an idea into his head (as many of us here on HF do).

I think Nedved has already proven that he in fact is NOT washed up. If a player is truly finished as an NHL player, you can tell. He can't compete, and he doesn't do anything positive on the ice. He looks like he doesn't belong.

I look at Petr and I see a guy who IS doing positive things on the ice, who wants to be here and is improving every game as he gets reaquainted with the Oilers system and extra skating. I see a guy who is VERY comfortable controlling the puck on the half-boards on the second unit PP . We haven't had anyone look good in this role yet. Not Horcoff, Pisani, Lupul, anyone.

I'm not ready to say this experiment was a total success, but so far so good and Petr has warranted a little patience from Oiler fans with his initial play.

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01-11-2007, 10:47 AM
  #50
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A little OT, but in the Olypics in Torino, did Hemsky wear #83?

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