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Blackhawks/Flyers Proposal

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Old
12-02-2003, 04:12 AM
  #1
fighterflea1*
 
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Blackhawks/Flyers Proposal

To the Hawks:

D Jim Vandermeer
C Pat Sharp

To the Flyers

C Mikhail Yakoubov
G Craig Andersson

From a Flyer perspective, the Hawks have a pretty brutal blueline depleted further by recent injuries. Vandermeer is stuck as the Flyers #7 dman but they are not afraid to give him 16-18 minutes as a fill-in against teams like the Sens. Chris Therien has stepped up his play and Vandermeer is largely relegated to a bench or fill-in role. Still, he would be a top 4 dman on the Blackhawks and offers size, decent skating and an ability with the fists.

Pat Sharp projects as a 3d line center with good hockey knowledge but challenged to move forward with the Flyers having talent behind him that might surpass him. The Blackhawks look also to be depleted on the lines and Sharp might be able to fill in immediately in a checking line role.

Yakoubov represents an intriguing and rather raw talent with some size and power but little prospect of making a dent immediately in either town. I understand he could play any forward position and might have more of a future in Philly on a wing.

Andersson is getting shuttled around with Leighton in Chicago it would appear and moving him might free up a logjam. On the Philly goalie depth chart, he would share time with the Flyers' AHL affiliate with a goalie (Antero Nittymaki) whom we like but is not NHL ready. Andersson provides depth and a possible fill-in if the Flyers sustain an injury with one of their two principal netminders.

Philly doesn't need this deal as it is mostly positioning the team a bit better for the future and some Philly fans will rip this proposal since both Vandermeer and Sharp are well thought of by fans.

If from Chicago's standpoint you have help on the way for some gaping holes in the current line-up then maybe you don't do this deal. It seems like you're long on Russian forwards with lots of potential talent and short on ready players to step in now and play key supporting roles. In which case you might like this proposal.

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12-02-2003, 04:23 AM
  #2
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Weinrich and Therien are UFAs after this year. I doubt either will sign so Vandermeer will become a full time D man next year so I doubt Philly will give Vandermeer up as hes scheduled to fill one of their spots.

I know nothing of the Hawks players but it makes little sense to deal someone who is highly thought of by the coaches.

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12-02-2003, 05:18 AM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve L
Weinrich and Therien are UFAs after this year. I doubt either will sign so Vandermeer will become a full time D man next year so I doubt Philly will give Vandermeer up as hes scheduled to fill one of their spots.

I know nothing of the Hawks players but it makes little sense to deal someone who is highly thought of by the coaches.
I like Vandermeer a lot but you can't really say that his game is developing the way that he is being used at the moment and next year he will be challenged for icetime by Seidenberg and Woywitka. No one in Philly has ever thought the Flyers would have room for Pitkanen plus these three.
A bit of advice, don't bet against Weinrich returning for a year.

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12-02-2003, 05:44 AM
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Vandermeer is the only bit of toughness there is on the blue line, Ptkanen, Johnsson, Weinrich, Rags, Desjardins, Woywitka, Therien and Seidenberg arent exaclty the toughest blueline around.

As much as I like Seidenberg, I think he will be traded as the Flyers already have offensive D men in Pitkanen, Rico and Johnsson.

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12-02-2003, 05:49 AM
  #5
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So the Flyers move a nice mid level forward prospect and young D man that the coaches love and is playing with regularity on a blue line with 2 UFAs to be for a goaltender that will never see the light of day in a Flyers jersey and a raw mid level forward prospect. Next please, this deal has nothing to offer the Flyers.

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12-02-2003, 06:44 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love
So the Flyers move a nice mid level forward prospect and young D man that the coaches love and is playing with regularity on a blue line with 2 UFAs to be for a goaltender that will never see the light of day in a Flyers jersey and a raw mid level forward prospect. Next please, this deal has nothing to offer the Flyers.
Why would you suppose Sharp is the only "nice mid level prospect" here when Chicago has what most consider the best prospect depth in the NHL and these are 2 of their top ten? Don't bother to respond if you're still on p.1 when it comes to players not currently in the NHL.

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12-02-2003, 06:56 AM
  #7
Dr Love
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fighterflea
Why would you suppose Sharp is the only "nice mid level prospect" here when Chicago has what most consider the best prospect depth in the NHL and these are 2 of their top ten? Don't bother to respond if you're still on p.1 when it comes to players not currently in the NHL.
From your post:

"Yakoubov represents an intriguing and rather raw talent with some size and power but little prospect of making a dent immediately in either town. I understand he could play any forward position and might have more of a future in Philly on a wing."

That says to me he's raw and not as polished as Sharp, and the Flyers already have two 1st round centers that are unpolished. Excuse me if I don't know Blackhawk prospects like the back of my hand, I'll spend my lunch hour on reading up on Chicago prospects, but I don't think that Yakoubov is high on their want list right now. The Flyers have no need for a goalie, certainly not for a young defenseman when you consider their blue line features two players who will be UFAs. Besides, when is the last time you saw a trade of nothing but prospects and rookies?

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12-02-2003, 07:05 AM
  #8
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I will explain why Sharp and Vandermeer will not get traded.

Sharp will soon fill a spot left by a Lapointe or a Primeau. The kid looked decent to me in the preseason and I was a little surprised he got sent back down over Chouinard. I could see giving Chouinard but not Sharp. Patrick, according to tsn, has plenty of versatility and skill. Skates very well and displays enough hockey sense to project a nice NHL future. I agree. This kid will be a decent player for the Flyers.

Vandy---The kid is a typical Philadelphia defenseman. He has the physical presence, he is always willing to drop the gloves, and he doesn't get scared when he has the puck. If he gets a little bigger, he would be a scary guy to deal with on our blueline.

I also see Dennis getting trading if he doesn't toughen up. His biggest problem is that he gets knocked off the puck way too easy. He does have a cannon of a shot from the point. He can skate and does bounce right up from a check. If he gets that strength, he will be another good d-man for the Flyers. As Steve L said, some of the guys like Weino or Rico may be gone soon and Rags too so I don't think Clarke will send our prospects away anytime soon.

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12-02-2003, 05:16 PM
  #9
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don't forget that the Flyers also have Nikita Korovkin, Randy Jones and Rosario Ruggeri who are now on the radar screen, with Alexandre Picard just behind them.

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12-02-2003, 05:56 PM
  #10
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Just a thought-
Given the blackhawks may have a logjam as has been said, while i think Leighton will be good in the future. The fact is, that now the blackhawks lack an experienced backup that can carry the team in Thibault's absence. I believe if my memory serves me correctly their only experienced goalie in the system, is Steve Passmore. I don't honestly think he can carry the team in Thibault's absence, what the team should do is get a backup with some experience.
I think Robert Esche could do the job in chi-town if they could swing it, but i honestly think maybe a trade should be made with a team willing to deal an experienced back up goalie.
I think Hurme, could have been had cheaply, but hes on the IR so thats kind of shot.
Also, Brian Boucher on Phoenix i think could be an option. Maybe.

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12-02-2003, 07:15 PM
  #11
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two months ago, I would have thought this trade possible. At the time, most in chicago had only heard negative things about Yak down in norfolk(he was pouting after not making the team last season).

While he didn't put up many points in norfolk yet this year... he was the only non negative player. And the points could be somewhat understood, as he played on a line with "vetran" ahl'rs... and i'm not talking about the 20 goal Ahl guys- I'm talking about vetran grinders that tried to hold down other teams on a rookie laden squad(who is at the bottom in Goals for in the AHL).

He's only played two games with the big squad, but has definately shown Sutter and Tallon something. He has now replaced Tyler Arnason on his line due to his play(and Arnason's current hissy with coach brain dead).

Anderson is definately available. We don't get credit for it, but we have a ton of young goalies coming up through the system: Leighton, Anderson, Ayers, Crawford, Brodeur... and Tbo is only 28 and is a solid(if unspectacular) starting NHL goalie.

I would love to get Vandermeer on the hawks. But I think a kid that could blossom into a first line center is a bit much for a tough as nails dman whose ceiling is a bit lower.....

Here's the thing, Yak could bust out and be nothing. But he shows flashes of being a real good player. Chicago is selling hope right now, so I think the asking price may be a bit high.

I could be way off. Promoting Yakubov to a top 2 line on this squad may be a showcase. Of all the more touted prospects, Yak was definately thought of as the one possibly on the way out after being cut early from camp.

But IMO, it would take a *proven* young top 2 dman to pull out some of our more highly touted prospects. Our Dmen in the minors are severly under rated. I think most hawk fans feel as if we have at great core of dmen prospects, we're just lacking that stud guy that can play 27 minutes a night(something which Vandermeer doesn't address). The big *if* about our future blueline is if Seabrook, Babchuk, Barinka, or a darkhorse can develop into that type of player.

Long story short...... Love Vandermeer, love to have him in the Indianhead..

But not at that price. He is a solid 5/6 guy- and maybe develops into a 3/4. The sky is the limit for Yakubov- if he want's it enough....

-fullmetalninja

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12-03-2003, 10:25 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmetalninja
two months ago, I would have thought this trade possible. At the time, most in chicago had only heard negative things about Yak down in norfolk(he was pouting after not making the team last season).

While he didn't put up many points in norfolk yet this year... he was the only non negative player. And the points could be somewhat understood, as he played on a line with "vetran" ahl'rs... and i'm not talking about the 20 goal Ahl guys- I'm talking about vetran grinders that tried to hold down other teams on a rookie laden squad(who is at the bottom in Goals for in the AHL).

He's only played two games with the big squad, but has definately shown Sutter and Tallon something. He has now replaced Tyler Arnason on his line due to his play(and Arnason's current hissy with coach brain dead).

Anderson is definately available. We don't get credit for it, but we have a ton of young goalies coming up through the system: Leighton, Anderson, Ayers, Crawford, Brodeur... and Tbo is only 28 and is a solid(if unspectacular) starting NHL goalie.

I would love to get Vandermeer on the hawks. But I think a kid that could blossom into a first line center is a bit much for a tough as nails dman whose ceiling is a bit lower.....

Here's the thing, Yak could bust out and be nothing. But he shows flashes of being a real good player. Chicago is selling hope right now, so I think the asking price may be a bit high.

I could be way off. Promoting Yakubov to a top 2 line on this squad may be a showcase. Of all the more touted prospects, Yak was definately thought of as the one possibly on the way out after being cut early from camp.

But IMO, it would take a *proven* young top 2 dman to pull out some of our more highly touted prospects. Our Dmen in the minors are severly under rated. I think most hawk fans feel as if we have at great core of dmen prospects, we're just lacking that stud guy that can play 27 minutes a night(something which Vandermeer doesn't address). The big *if* about our future blueline is if Seabrook, Babchuk, Barinka, or a darkhorse can develop into that type of player.

Long story short...... Love Vandermeer, love to have him in the Indianhead..

But not at that price. He is a solid 5/6 guy- and maybe develops into a 3/4. The sky is the limit for Yakubov- if he want's it enough....

-fullmetalninja
Kind of interesting and not totally unexpected set of responses. Flyer fans (guilty of "attachment") think the proposal has them giving up too much for too little, a Blackhawk fan with equal fervor wants a 27 minute a game solid #2 dman in return for Yakoubov. These type of defensemen don't just grow on trees and certainly are not available for a prospect, as opposed to a perennial Alll Star talent.

Flyer fans overall want an omelette without breaking eggs, an improved team without pulling the trigger on a deal that comes with a cost. The Blackhawk fans, if this board is indicative, are prepared to hope that the future brings improvement, I guess through the draft, that they're not prepared to take steps to accelerate.

With Ruutu and Mark Bell coming along in the middle and an abundance of Russian skill forwards and, as was noted above, a hefty supply of young goalies, this proposal suggested a way for the Hawks to get some help now without taxing their pipleline of talent. They don't appear to want to spend a lot of money which is why Vandermeer and Sharp would figure to have appeal.

The Flyers have 9 defensemen of some prominence at the moment to the point of serious concern as to how the youngest of them can be developed. Vandermeer arguably is not really developing much based on the way he is being utilized and may be just as much the 'odd man out' for playing time next year as he is now. There is not a glut of inexpensive guys like Vandermeer around in the NHL currently and most 'spare parts' dmen are guys substantially older and now on the down hill side of their careers.

With Jeff Carter and Mike Richards shooting up the list of Flyer prospects for the future. Pat Sharp may never get the opportunity to develoop his game at an NHL level while in Philly. Guys like Vandermeer and Sharp become declining assets at the point where they get stuck as minor leaguers. They are not to that point as yet.

Finally, just as the Blackhawks are amazingly thin on the blueline at the moment and that talent base, if that's the word I want, has been depleted by several injuries, the Flyers lack a real power forward for the future -- they have no one on the horizon with the skill set of a Yakoubov and it's been rare to see Philly without someone coming along who makes his points consistently by standing strong near the crease. Power forwards don't grow on trees either.

Those are the points that argue for this proposal.

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