HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Notices

Avery, and the Crawford quote

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-12-2007, 03:43 PM
  #51
Tadite
Registered User
 
Tadite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Rhode Island
Country: United States
Posts: 4,637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt13 View Post
I concur that the stat is a bit skewed, but Avery was on the ice for just as many games as Norstrom was when Cloutier was in net. Did Norstrom see more of the other teams top lines? While I dont have an exact stat, I am sure he did but that doesnt mean Sean wasnt seeing time against those lines either.


Sure I bet he has. Seems to me Avery has played in ever situation that can be possible in a hockey game, from PK to PP, Top lines to Bottom.

I don't think I would argue that Sean is a great defensive player. But I do think he is responsible on the ice. What can be a problem is that he has a tendency to forecheck a little heavily which can turn into a offensive chance but can also allow the other team to get up the ice with speed. Just comes down to does he create more opportunities then he gives away.

I think that by a large he does more good then bad. And frankly in the "new NHL" we need his speed on the ice.

Tadite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 04:22 PM
  #52
multiball
Registered User
 
multiball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NoHo
Posts: 1,252
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to multiball
Here's how one objective writer saw the same game. The reality is undoubtedly somewhere in between the first post and this one...

Who else? The numbers might say Sean Avery, who was a -4 with two minor penalties against the Sharks. But in this case, stats don’t tell the tale. Avery buzzed, setting up the aforementioned Conroy muff and carry the puck effectively on several other shifts. A team could do worse than to have a guy this fearless on the fore-check. As for the minor penalties, the second, for slashing, was one of those calls that probably wouldn’t have gone against most other players in the league. So knock him off the list.

from: http://insidehockey.com/columns/326

multiball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 04:23 PM
  #53
lakings41
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,049
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
This is what happens when you grow up in the Andy Murray School of Hockey. Yes, hockey is a rough sport and **** happens, but hockey is also a game of SKILL, VISION, THOUGHT, and FINESSE. It's not about who can cycle the puck the longest or who can drive their opponent through the boards or who can piss off the most players on the other team. THE WHOLE POINT OF HOCKEY IS TO SCORE MORE GOALS THAN YOUR OPPONENT.

Kings hockey might be dull and robotic without Avery "hustling and working hard" (I prefer to call it playing out of control), but that isn't a problem with the game - just a lack of skill in the Kings' veteran lineup.

In yesterday's game, Avery was a -4. That means he was on the ice for all 4 even strength goals AND in the penalty box for goal #5. Is it a coincidence that he was involved in ALL 5 of their goals? Are you aware that Avery has the most shots on goal for the team, yet has one of the lowest scoring percentages for the forwards?

Avery isn't the least of their problems, but that doesn't make him an asset either...

I've never been a fan of AM's so you can leave it there.
It's funny that the whole Debbie Downer crew jumps on board as soon as Avery has a bad game. Off the ice I think he's a dick but I could really care less about his personal life. I'm a fan just like the rest of you and want to see our team do well. If you personally believe that he's still a problem child or he's ineffective on the ice that's your opinion. I see a guy hustling out there and trying to make things happen. It may not always be the right outcome but at least he's trying and that's a lot more than some of the other guys can say.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lumberg
Whaaaa???!!! I've read this post three times and I still can't figure out where you're going. There's usually a post where a thread starts to go off the deep end. There it is.

Chill man. It's just Sean Avery. Some of us are trying to make the point that Sean is not helping the team.
Maybe you should stop reading it then.
If that's your opinion than what is it on the rest of the team?

Seriously I don't really mind either way if we move Avery or not but I think he can be effective when used in the right capacity. From number one pest in the league to top six is pretty confusing for anyone.

lakings41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 04:45 PM
  #54
Fishhead
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TubbyTerrion View Post
By liability, I may not ALWAYS mean that he's doing the wrong thing on the ice, but he's certainly subject to scrutiny that NO OTHER KING is subject to.
True, the potential liability is always there. He is undoubtedly held to a different standard to not only the Kings players, but players around the league. I think he has responded well this year and tried to change things around. I don't see him yapping nearly as much this year at the officials, he's really cut back on that. Now he needs to stop staring them down every time he thinks he's been wronged. My hope is that he finds a happy medium once he shows he has changed for a long enough time where he isn't singled out by officials (if that ever happens), allowing him to keep an edge to his game where he is most effective. While he's made some serious mistakes in the past with the org., he really does seem to be well liked this year by players and coaches. Surprisingly to me, honestly, because it's obvious he doesn't like to lose. For that reason, I would hang on to Avery because he could be one of the better 3rd liners in the league. I think high-end 3rd liners with a physical game are far more rare than your everyday 2nd liner. Keeping him is a very low-risk proposition. He is certainly a fan-fave among the casual fan. He gets louder cheers than anyone when introduced. Used properly he is a highly effective player, and could prove an asset. And, if he ever decides to pull his antics again, the organization has more than enough past history to justify trading or waiving him. At this time, I don't think the return they could get by trading Sean would be anywhere near what his potential is.

Fishhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 04:52 PM
  #55
lakings41
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,049
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
True, the potential liability is always there. He is undoubtedly held to a different standard to not only the Kings players, but players around the league. I think he has responded well this year and tried to change things around. I don't see him yapping nearly as much this year at the officials, he's really cut back on that. Now he needs to stop staring them down every time he thinks he's been wronged. My hope is that he finds a happy medium once he shows he has changed for a long enough time where he isn't singled out by officials (if that ever happens), allowing him to keep an edge to his game where he is most effective. While he's made some serious mistakes in the past with the org., he really does seem to be well liked this year by players and coaches. Surprisingly to me, honestly, because it's obvious he doesn't like to lose. For that reason, I would hang on to Avery because he could be one of the better 3rd liners in the league. I think high-end 3rd liners with a physical game are far more rare than your everyday 2nd liner. Keeping him is a very low-risk proposition. He is certainly a fan-fave among the casual fan. He gets louder cheers than anyone when introduced. Used properly he is a highly effective player, and could prove an asset. And, if he ever decides to pull his antics again, the organization has more than enough past history to justify trading or waiving him. At this time, I don't think the return they could get by trading Sean would be anywhere near what his potential is.

lakings41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 04:58 PM
  #56
lumbergh
Registered User
 
lumbergh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Country: Taiwan
Posts: 1,492
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakings41 View Post
Maybe you should stop reading it then.
If that's your opinion than what is it on the rest of the team?
Tubby was on the mark with his assessment for most of the players he named in the thread starter. I like TK. Given the amount of ice time Avery does, I think Kostopoulos could put up similar numbers, plus he doesn't take bad penalties and doesn't duck a fight. I also think that Armstrong has had a strong season. I don't get excited about either of them.

I await the day when the dead weight (e.g. Conroy, Willsie) on this team is dumped. I don't know how Willsie draws an NHL paycheck.

The D has been disappointing, particularly Norstrom and Miller. Unfortunately, we have Dallman and Weaver behind them, so there's not much choice there.

Maybe Crawford should just go with three lines and four D. The Kings might win more games.

lumbergh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 04:59 PM
  #57
MePutPuckInNet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,385
vCash: 500
Avery had a bad game, but I don't see how you can rant about that and fail to comment on all the good he has done this season. It's already been said, everyone has a lousy game now and then, just because it was Sean's turn, I don't think that warrants a full on "Avery Sucks" outcry.

However, if you want to start talking about a non-team player who does stupid things on the ice, then let's talk about Cammalleri. I'm becoming less and less a fan of his nearly every game. I know he's a +2, and he can put up some points, but there's definitely a lot about that dude I just don't like. He seems to be a puck hog, on most nights, and often seems unaware that he should take a look around and try using his teammates once in a while. I didn't really notice him last night too much, so I'm not referring to that game in particular. This is kind of just a general comment. I'm not exactly sure what it is specifically that I don't like about him, to be honest. I just hate watching him out there on the ice. He seems to be a rocking horse type of player - he just looks like he's going somewhere. Anyway,,,,it's just my opinion, I just thought I'd rant about someone else for a while.

MePutPuckInNet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 05:20 PM
  #58
lakings41
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,049
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
Avery had a bad game, but I don't see how you can rant about that and fail to comment on all the good he has done this season. It's already been said, everyone has a lousy game now and then, just because it was Sean's turn, I don't think that warrants a full on "Avery Sucks" outcry.

However, if you want to start talking about a non-team player who does stupid things on the ice, then let's talk about Cammalleri. I'm becoming less and less a fan of his nearly every game. I know he's a +2, and he can put up some points, but there's definitely a lot about that dude I just don't like. He seems to be a puck hog, on most nights, and often seems unaware that he should take a look around and try using his teammates once in a while. I didn't really notice him last night too much, so I'm not referring to that game in particular. This is kind of just a general comment. I'm not exactly sure what it is specifically that I don't like about him, to be honest. I just hate watching him out there on the ice. He seems to be a rocking horse type of player - he just looks like he's going somewhere. Anyway,,,,it's just my opinion, I just thought I'd rant about someone else for a while.
Well in my opinion you picked the wrong guy. This board cracks me up at times. Rather than talk about every scrub on the team we attack the only good we have and put them in retarded trade proposals.
Cammy's linemates seem to change daily and no chemistry can be built for him. He does seem to be on the bubble at times but that has more to do with his linemates. If you put him with any top end puck possession center watch the damage that he can do. This again is a case of top tier player being used in a lame role.....and having even worse linemates. He breaks the balance of Kopitar.
If we can aquire a top line center than we'll have a good one two punch with Kopitar. You can than put Cammy with surrounding talent and than make a better assessment. Watching him with Wilsie can be an eyesore.

lakings41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 05:35 PM
  #59
Captain Ron
Registered User
 
Captain Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Race City USA
Country: United States
Posts: 17,310
vCash: 500
I like Avery.[/comment]

Captain Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 05:36 PM
  #60
MePutPuckInNet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,385
vCash: 500
re: cammalleri

yes, i realize there are linemate issues. But, perhaps HE is more a part of the problem than you think. I understand I'm in the minority here when I trash Cammalleri, but as I said, it's just my opinion. He doesn't seem to respect his teammates ability, maybe that puts some people off [like me]. I think he has a superiority complex that is far too large for someone so average. Anyway, I'm not saying he's a horrible player. He's obviously one of the better point producers on the team, but I just don't like the way he ignores his linemates far too often.

MePutPuckInNet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 05:48 PM
  #61
lakings41
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Orange County, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,049
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MePutPuckInNet View Post
re: cammalleri

yes, i realize there are linemate issues. But, perhaps HE is more a part of the problem than you think. I understand I'm in the minority here when I trash Cammalleri, but as I said, it's just my opinion. He doesn't seem to respect his teammates ability, maybe that puts some people off [like me]. I think he has a superiority complex that is far too large for someone so average. Anyway, I'm not saying he's a horrible player. He's obviously one of the better point producers on the team, but I just don't like the way he ignores his linemates far too often.

Good points and maybe because i'm a Cammy fan I have some Cammy goggles. But I really don't see him as being a selfish player and I know King Blazer will back me on this one. You see some guys in this league score a goal and you'd think they just scored the GW in the SC (Cheechoo comes to mind). He goes about his business and always puts the team first. You'll barely ever see Cammy gloat when he scores and when they question him interviews about his goals he claims they were luck and the team helped.
He has too trust his linemates and we're halfway through the season. I think he's got a pretty good guage of who can handle what.

lakings41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 05:50 PM
  #62
Fishhead
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakings41 View Post
He does seem to be on the bubble at times but that has more to do with his linemates. If you put him with any top end puck possession center watch the damage that he can do.

If we can aquire a top line center than we'll have a good one two punch with Kopitar. You can than put Cammy with surrounding talent and than make a better assessment. Watching him with Wilsie can be an eyesore.
Camm is great talent, and you are right, he needs to be put with possesion/playmaker guys. The team this year is so shuffled and talent diluted that very few players are developing chemistry. For a long time I also felt that he didn't pass enough, didn't skate hard enough, and so on.

I think a lot of us have too-high expectations for him, which is probably somewhat unfair. Camm will never be a game-breaker, thats not his style. He is a finisher and sniper, with a deadly shot. He seems uninvolved when he isn't scoring, and that seems like a negative but IMO it isn't. Guys like him do their damage when the other teams forget about him. I watched him closely for a few weeks and he does play pretty good defense, and backchecks well. Not great but above average for a forward. On offense though, he never tries to carry the play. He is constantly shifting and moving in and out of scoring areas. This is exactly what he should do, but the downside is if no one can get him the puck there, he will be invisible. When he does get the puck, he usually gets a great chance off. He's one of the few players around that can actually be standing still against a set goalie and still beat him from 30 feet even if the goalie knows its coming. If you put him with a great playmaker who attracts attention, like Thornton, I could see him putting up Cheechoo numbers from last season.

Fishhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 06:29 PM
  #63
Albi
Registered User
 
Albi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Canonica - Bergamo
Country: Italy
Posts: 4,577
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Albi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishhead View Post
True, the potential liability is always there. He is undoubtedly held to a different standard to not only the Kings players, but players around the league. I think he has responded well this year and tried to change things around. I don't see him yapping nearly as much this year at the officials, he's really cut back on that. Now he needs to stop staring them down every time he thinks he's been wronged. My hope is that he finds a happy medium once he shows he has changed for a long enough time where he isn't singled out by officials (if that ever happens), allowing him to keep an edge to his game where he is most effective. While he's made some serious mistakes in the past with the org., he really does seem to be well liked this year by players and coaches. Surprisingly to me, honestly, because it's obvious he doesn't like to lose. For that reason, I would hang on to Avery because he could be one of the better 3rd liners in the league. I think high-end 3rd liners with a physical game are far more rare than your everyday 2nd liner. Keeping him is a very low-risk proposition. He is certainly a fan-fave among the casual fan. He gets louder cheers than anyone when introduced. Used properly he is a highly effective player, and could prove an asset. And, if he ever decides to pull his antics again, the organization has more than enough past history to justify trading or waiving him. At this time, I don't think the return they could get by trading Sean would be anywhere near what his potential is.
Good post

Albi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 06:59 PM
  #64
took420s
Registered User
 
took420s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Monterey
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 2,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by multiball View Post
Here's how one objective writer saw the same game. The reality is undoubtedly somewhere in between the first post and this one...

Who else? The numbers might say Sean Avery, who was a -4 with two minor penalties against the Sharks. But in this case, stats don’t tell the tale. Avery buzzed, setting up the aforementioned Conroy muff and carry the puck effectively on several other shifts. A team could do worse than to have a guy this fearless on the fore-check. As for the minor penalties, the second, for slashing, was one of those calls that probably wouldn’t have gone against most other players in the league. So knock him off the list.

from: http://insidehockey.com/columns/326
Even though this was posted, the haters will continue to hate.

Matt13 said it best...Posting Avery threads after this terrible game is a wee bit over-dramatic. Thank god for scapegoats!

took420s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 07:57 PM
  #65
no name
Registered User
 
no name's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tornado Alley
Posts: 11,639
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Did anyone else notice that Visnovsky looked pissed last night? At the end of the 2nd period he gave Miller this look like "W-T-F ARE YOU DOING!??"

I wasn't at the game, but that's how it looked on TV.
Miller has been very solid the past 2 weeks.

no name is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 08:15 PM
  #66
dabeechman
Registered User
 
dabeechman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,747
vCash: 500
Fun Avery interview

http://video.nbcsports.com/player/?id=54767

dabeechman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 09:28 PM
  #67
kingsholygrail
Hail HYDRA!
 
kingsholygrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Derpifornia
Country: United States
Posts: 40,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabeechman View Post
Well you heard it folks. Straight from Crawford. Cloutier will be gone next season, because as we all know he isnt doing what he needs to be doing. Of course, that is stopping pucks.

Thanks Tubby
No. Cloutier is still working things out. Crawford assures us he'll work through it.

Remember, Cloutier is above the team.

kingsholygrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 09:28 PM
  #68
kingsholygrail
Hail HYDRA!
 
kingsholygrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Derpifornia
Country: United States
Posts: 40,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by took420s View Post
Even though this was posted, the haters will continue to hate.

Matt13 said it best...Posting Avery threads after this terrible game is a wee bit over-dramatic. Thank god for scapegoats!
Wouldn't have gone against most other players in the league? He BROKE the guy's stick.

kingsholygrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 09:30 PM
  #69
PSP
Couldn't Be Happier!
 
PSP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,266
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
Wouldn't have gone against most other players in the league? He BROKE the guy's stick.
Don't let the facts get in the way of an opinion

PSP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 09:40 PM
  #70
kingsholygrail
Hail HYDRA!
 
kingsholygrail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Derpifornia
Country: United States
Posts: 40,352
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
Don't let the facts get in the way of an opinion
I am so embarrassed.

kingsholygrail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 09:57 PM
  #71
brianguy
Registered User
 
brianguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: the Orange Curtain
Country: Ireland
Posts: 375
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by absolutic View Post
Also agreed a 100% Avery is a sick disrespectful f..k and, if he had Theo Fleury's talent, I could tolerate that, but he does not. His place is in the minors.
oh come on.

a few people around here definitely need a reality check. it's comments like these that make me feel like I'm reading LGK sometimes

brianguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 10:00 PM
  #72
Captain Ron
Registered User
 
Captain Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Race City USA
Country: United States
Posts: 17,310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
Wouldn't have gone against most other players in the league? He BROKE the guy's stick.
Even though the penalty was correct.....I have seen several players get away with breaking other player's sticks all season long. But Avery has a microscope on him.....He does not get away with penalties that others could. Look at the check that Kopitar made on Vlasic last night. Had Sean been the player involved instead of Anze he would not only have gotten a penalty for the incident but would have probably gotten a 5 minute major.

Captain Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 10:08 PM
  #73
kingpest19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,603
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
Wouldn't have gone against most other players in the league? He BROKE the guy's stick.
This is the whole reason why I hate slashing being called when a composite stick breaks. Its not liek the old days when you had to give a wood stick one hell of a slash to break it. Guys break the things on pass attempts so the refs no they are flimsy but yet they still call it when it happens from a slash.

Amazing how one bad game and people want Avery gone. The guy is a decent player and unlike other players on the team brings his all every game avery shift yet thats nto good enough. Hes a solid third liner and because hes not putting up 70+ points he's worthless to the team. Cup winning teams arent made up of all finesse players. You need players like Avery who hustle every shift and cause things to happen whether good or bad to be a winning team.

kingpest19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 10:13 PM
  #74
took420s
Registered User
 
took420s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Monterey
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 2,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsholygrail View Post
Wouldn't have gone against most other players in the league? He BROKE the guy's stick.
Why did you reference me? I never said that.

took420s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 10:16 PM
  #75
dabeechman
Registered User
 
dabeechman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,747
vCash: 500
yeah, he broke the guys stick. But he was also falling down at the same time. I still think it was a weak call.

dabeechman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:25 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.