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The Official Fire Craig Mctavish thread.

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Old
12-03-2003, 08:15 PM
  #1
Mowzie
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The Official Fire Craig Mctavish thread.

The title kind of speaks for it self, and there's been alot of threads leaning toward it, but atlast, here it is, The Official Fire MacT thread.

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12-03-2003, 08:26 PM
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Mizral
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I've never been a fan of MacTavish, and this recent slump just emphasizes it to me. I think perhaps overlooked in this mess, is that many of the young players are learning in a losing atmosphere, and that is never a good thing.

I believe there was a very long and unweildy post on the subject this summer (well, the thread was arguing weather Kevin Lowe is a good GM or not, and it ended up going all over the map), I'll look for it tommorrow.. as I seem to recall saying that I thought MacTavish would lose the team at some point before Christmas.

EDIT: Not saying MacTavish has lost the team yet, but it could be a possibility soon

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12-03-2003, 08:43 PM
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Here's the snap....and the PUNT!

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12-03-2003, 09:02 PM
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Not many teams have success when important roster players are holding out and the Oilers are one of the youngest teams in the league and just two games below .500.

Gassing the coach at this stage would be premature, but having said that I'm not a huge fan of MacT's player selections or line juggling either.

I never saw the game tonight but from the sounds of things the Oil have dominated some games lately but have just been unlucky around the net.

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12-03-2003, 09:02 PM
  #5
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signed LMHF#2!! woooohooooooo
lets make this a petition haha

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12-03-2003, 09:05 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoudmouthHemskyfan#1
Here's the snap....and the PUNT!
I feel pretty good being one of the instigators of the MacT bashing...but...he won't get fired, sorry the old boys club is in total effect.
I'd like it if we could get a competent coach in here, but it won't happen.

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12-04-2003, 02:30 AM
  #7
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what,

you guys sick of blaming Comrie, Laraque, Brewer and Horcoff for everything that is wrong?

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12-04-2003, 02:59 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
The title kind of speaks for it self, and there's been alot of threads leaning toward it, but atlast, here it is, The Official Fire MacT thread.
4 playoff wins in three years!Each year we trade away players and not much changes. One common denominator remains ,MACT.

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12-04-2003, 04:14 AM
  #9
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I'd like to see MacT gone but Hemsky4PM was right he will be here for at least another 3 years. He did just sign a long term contract with the club. IMO the Oilers will part with some "vets" before they part with MacT.

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Old
12-04-2003, 04:26 AM
  #10
Yanner39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
what,

you guys sick of blaming Comrie, Laraque, Brewer and Horcoff for everything that is wrong?
I blame the Oilers recent slump on Bill Moores' mustache.

Get over it people. The last 3 games, the Oilers should have won. They've dominated but they are not getting breaks. Mike Keenan taking over would not make the puck go in the net more. Please.

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12-04-2003, 06:33 AM
  #11
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I have been critical of MacT, but that goes with the territory. I do not endorse his firing.

A couple things.
I think the Reasoner injury has been costly.
I think that the Comrie situation could have been settled by now. (And that no offer on the table B.S. gets me to believe that Kevin maybe looking for a home run rather than a double. Make me GM for 2 hours and I would have a good offensive player here.)

Chicago sucks....Comrie, 2nd and Luoma for Calder or Bell.
Isles suck...Comrie, Horcoff, 3rd for Parrish.
Phoenix sucks...Comrie, Rita, 3rd for Langkow.

Gotta add more? Add more.

The exercise dictates that in Oilers fans eyes, I am overpaying. When I get the quality player in return, the deal is justified by saying...this is the market, and we got a player that we wanted.

In any negotiation a deal can be made when the resolve is there to get it done. When you have assets you have to maximize them. Lowe can facilitate a trade whenever he wants. He just has to be willing to pay the price.

MacT isn't a fantastic coach, but he is decent(Aside from the line juggling.) And the ability to add a top 6 forward is there and some of the posters here share the Kevin Lowe philosophy that he is going to make a holdout pay.

OK...well remember this one thing...and I think Kevin Lowe is forgetting this...he has made personal a business transaction. Teaching Comrie a lesson is personal. Maximizing the asset is business. You can tell which way Lowe is leaning.

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12-04-2003, 06:35 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. van Nostrin
I blame the Oilers recent slump on Bill Moores' mustache.

Get over it people. The last 3 games, the Oilers should have won. They've dominated but they are not getting breaks. Mike Keenan taking over would not make the puck go in the net more. Please.
Good teams make their own breaks, mediocre teams wait for the breaks to come their way.

While I don't think firing MacT would be a magic cure-all for this team, I do think it's coming to the point that his job could be in jeopardy if this thing drags on much longer. He's been here a while now, there is a chance that the players are starting to lose interest in his words of wisdom. I imagine the owners of this team were none too pleased to see the Oilers booed off the ice rather loudly, to the point that even the star selections were getting bronx cheers, especially on one of their PPVs. Lowe may not want to do anything drastic, but that choice may be taken out of his hands if he isn't careful.

While it's true that it's not the coach's fault if a player screws up a defensive assignment or his goalie fails to cover up a rebound or the guys on his PP show the imagination of a piece of lint...the rumblings I keep hearing seem to point towards a dressing room that isn't pulling in the same direction, and that IS the coach's domain. If he can't fix it, then someone else will have to...whether it's Lowe getting rid of the players that won't fall into step, or finding someone else to do the talking.

Lose to Pittsburgh this saturday, and watch it all hit the fan with a big SPLAT.

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Old
12-04-2003, 06:38 AM
  #13
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Its the team thats in a funk, not just one individual. Adam Oates missed an open net.
Does Mactavish have any control over that?

"Missed opportunities" should be the slogan for this team.

The effort is there. We are getting 30+ shots a night.

Mac-T has alot more rope than he is being credited with. Sorry Miz but you are dead wrong on this one. Mac-t is here to stay for a while like him or not.

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12-04-2003, 06:40 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
I have been critical of MacT, but that goes with the territory. I do not endorse his firing.

A couple things.
I think the Reasoner injury has been costly.
I think that the Comrie situation could have been settled by now. (And that no offer on the table B.S. gets me to believe that Kevin maybe looking for a home run rather than a double. Make me GM for 2 hours and I would have a good offensive player here.)

Chicago sucks....Comrie, 2nd and Luoma for Calder or Bell.
Isles suck...Comrie, Horcoff, 3rd for Parrish.
Phoenix sucks...Comrie, Rita, 3rd for Langkow.

Gotta add more? Add more.

The exercise dictates that in Oilers fans eyes, I am overpaying. When I get the quality player in return, the deal is justified by saying...this is the market, and we got a player that we wanted.

In any negotiation a deal can be made when the resolve is there to get it done. When you have assets you have to maximize them. Lowe can facilitate a trade whenever he wants. He just has to be willing to pay the price.

MacT isn't a fantastic coach, but he is decent(Aside from the line juggling.) And the ability to add a top 6 forward is there and some of the posters here share the Kevin Lowe philosophy that he is going to make a holdout pay.

OK...well remember this one thing...and I think Kevin Lowe is forgetting this...he has made personal a business transaction. Teaching Comrie a lesson is personal. Maximizing the asset is business. You can tell which way Lowe is leaning.
If Comrie gets what he wants, but Lowe doesn't get what he wants, Comrie wins, and that does Lowe no good what so ever. He is using the power that the CBA has given him. You want to make your own team better, and at the same time you don't want to make your opponents better, because that ends up hurting you.

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Old
12-04-2003, 06:50 AM
  #15
Yanner39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger12
Good teams make their own breaks, mediocre teams wait for the breaks to come their way.

While I don't think firing MacT would be a magic cure-all for this team, I do think it's coming to the point that his job could be in jeopardy if this thing drags on much longer. He's been here a while now, there is a chance that the players are starting to lose interest in his words of wisdom. I imagine the owners of this team were none too pleased to see the Oilers booed off the ice rather loudly, to the point that even the star selections were getting bronx cheers, especially on one of their PPVs. Lowe may not want to do anything drastic, but that choice may be taken out of his hands if he isn't careful.

While it's true that it's not the coach's fault if a player screws up a defensive assignment or his goalie fails to cover up a rebound or the guys on his PP show the imagination of a piece of lint...the rumblings I keep hearing seem to point towards a dressing room that isn't pulling in the same direction, and that IS the coach's domain. If he can't fix it, then someone else will have to...whether it's Lowe getting rid of the players that won't fall into step, or finding someone else to do the talking.

Lose to Pittsburgh this saturday, and watch it all hit the fan with a big SPLAT.
I agree with most of your points. Here in Ottawa, when the Sens were struggling, part of it was that they weren't getting the bounces (TO last weekend). Now, the Sens are a very good team so your statement about good team making their own breaks is somewhat arguable. Last night, the Oilers lost of a lucky goal.

Now if the dressing room is turning into the Toronto Maple Leafs dressing room, then yeah, MacT has to address it and if he doesn't he should be fired. I also think that's Lowe's job as well.

I guess the point I was making is that if the Oilers have only 15 shots per game the last 3 games and play horribly, but win all three games 1-0, nobody would be petitioning to have the coach fired. It's all about winning and losing. As long as the team wins, doesn't matter how bad they stink.

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12-04-2003, 06:51 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsessed
Its the team thats in a funk, not just one individual. Adam Oates missed an open net.
Does Mactavish have any control over that?

"Missed opportunities" should be the slogan for this team.

The effort is there. We are getting 30+ shots a night.

Mac-T has alot more rope than he is being credited with. Sorry Miz but you are dead wrong on this one. Mac-t is here to stay for a while like him or not.
You're right the effort has been good. The team is still playing very hard for MacT. Its what happens to 500 teams once in a while.

By the way did anyone here give credit to MacT when the Oilers had points in 6 games in a row whithout their starting goalie and their best centre(Reasoner).

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Old
12-04-2003, 07:28 AM
  #17
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Six games in a row without a win is horrible...but let's not forget about our five wins in six games right before the slump. We're still 2 games under .500. Its not the end of the world.

I don't think MacT will be fired soon...not when Lowe is still the GM, and not after he signed the long term contract. However, his constant line juggling is just driving me nutsauce. I can't really think of any other coach in the NHL that juggles lines on a regular basis like he does. Where did he learn his coaching from? Bozo the clown?

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Old
12-04-2003, 08:02 AM
  #18
Slats432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
If Comrie gets what he wants, but Lowe doesn't get what he wants, Comrie wins, and that does Lowe no good what so ever. He is using the power that the CBA has given him. You want to make your own team better, and at the same time you don't want to make your opponents better, because that ends up hurting you.
I really don't see it as Comrie or Lowe winning at this point. Only degrees of losing. What did Lowe say? Top 6 forward. If that isn't the market(and the market changes) then you have to look at what can I get?

The power of the CBA...he needs a top 6 guy, and can get one. He may have to chip in on the deal...but darn it, he could get one...

And I think that if you are dilligent, and a good negotiator, you can get a deal worked out with teams in the East. Islanders are a great example.

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12-04-2003, 08:09 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slats432
I really don't see it as Comrie or Lowe winning at this point. Only degrees of losing. What did Lowe say? Top 6 forward. If that isn't the market(and the market changes) then you have to look at what can I get?

The power of the CBA...he needs a top 6 guy, and can get one. He may have to chip in on the deal...but darn it, he could get one...

And I think that if you are dilligent, and a good negotiator, you can get a deal worked out with teams in the East. Islanders are a great example.
If Lowe bails out from what he wants to get, what exactly is going to stop the next Oiler from doing something like this?

Giving up Comrie and Rita for Langkow is insane... not only do the Yotes get the better player, they give up a top prospect, so the Yotes are better now, and in the future.

You want to talk about asset management in business... you don't sell a valuable asset to your market competetor for 10 cents on the dollar..

edit: I said the islanders instead of coyote's at first.


Last edited by dawgbone: 12-04-2003 at 08:21 AM.
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12-04-2003, 09:09 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgbone
If Lowe bails out from what he wants to get, what exactly is going to stop the next Oiler from doing something like this?

Giving up Comrie and Rita for Langkow is insane... not only do the Yotes get the better player, they give up a top prospect, so the Yotes are better now, and in the future.

You want to talk about asset management in business... you don't sell a valuable asset to your market competetor for 10 cents on the dollar..

edit: I said the islanders instead of coyote's at first.
Come on man, I jump on your don't burn MacT at the stake bandwagon, the least you could do is help me out with taking the emotion out of the negotiations and turning the asset into something.

READ this...10% on the dollar is better than 0% on the dollar. I think that Kevin Lowe should have been aggressive in moving Comrie. I think that all of the other GMs like Waddell and Doug Wilson(Who both have said publicly that Lowe didn't seem to be too anxious to move Comrie.) are more anxious to get Comrie than Lowe is to trade him.

For what it's worth, Kevin Lowe wins right now...he didn't buckle to Mike, made him sit for over a quarter of the season. Great Kevin, you have the biggest balls of them all.

Kevin Lowe just wants everyone to know that he can't be screwed with. Well if you have top 6 forward depth and can afford to sit on Comrie indefinitely. When you have little top 6 depth, you may have an inclination to do something.

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12-04-2003, 09:15 AM
  #21
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Two things

First: The only way I can see MacT being fired is if KLowe was assured he would be hired elsewhere right away so he wouldn't feel so guilty (Rangers)

Second: If MacT is fired then chances are, based on the past history, that either Huddy or Simpson would take over as head coach unless Lowe does it but I can't see that happening.

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12-04-2003, 09:32 AM
  #22
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When you have a 5 on 3 for almost a full 2 minutes, and a 6-4 to end the game, the least you can do is generate quality oppertunities, the Oilers were up 2 men and couldnt even get the shot they wanted, their PP is embarassing, Ales Hemsky should not get a milli-second of PP time, he has too much patience and never has his positioning down. The PP is slow, and more predictable then a Saved by the Bell re-run that I've seen 19 times...( I wonder how Zack is gonna be able to sneak into Mr. Dewey's house and get the answers for the Math test before Mr. Dewey comes back from Tae Kwon Do???).

I sat in a packed bar watching the Minny game, and literally got up and yelled at the TV, while we worked our PP, It is not a science, if the play is going on behind the net, and you are up 2 men, then pinch, close the gap a bit, don't stand on the blue line when you can walk in another 10 ft. I watch teams with marginal talent run their PP's and they make it look so easy. Minny had total control on their PP's, on one they had it in our zone the entire 2 minutes. They have one talented player and the rest of pluggers, if they can score on the PP, then anyone can. why do they score on PP's, because they have a system!!!

The Oilers look like a bunch of 13 year old boys at their first dance, hesitant, nervous, undecided, no confidence to ask Sally for a slowdance. Im sure it's not as easy as I make it sound, but it CAN'T be as hard as the Oilers make it look.

Our coaching staff needs to be shook up like a crying baby.

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Old
12-04-2003, 10:08 AM
  #23
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If they fire MacT, who will replace him? Iron Mike? Hopefully not. I cant see that being an improvement.

I think their special teams are bringing down the rest of their game. Wasnt coach Simpson supposed to bring his 50 goal scoring prowess and teach the team how to run the PP? They need someone to fix the special teams, and obviously (embarrasingly obviously) it's not working. This team is too gifted offensively to have such an abyssmal powerplay.

I think Simpson should take the brunt of the blame, if anyone. The team was doing fine 5 on 5 a couple weeks ago, but now their whole game is being brought down to the level of the powerplay. Now, a penalty to either team will kill the Oilers momentum.

On a lighter note - here's a post from exactly 2 weeks ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpion88
Wow, what a week..

1. The Esks win the Grey Cup
2. The Oil Sign Adam Oates
3. The Oil extend Staios Contract
4. The building gets a brand new name (Rexall Place) .. added revenue!!
5. The Oilers continue their winning streak
6. The Heritage Classic on Saturday

And finally the greatest moment of the week.............................................. .......
.................................................. ..........
.................................................. ...........
.................................................. ...........
.................................................. .,
the Oilers finally benched Shawn Horcoff!!!

THAT WAS SO AWESOME!! WHAT A WEEK!!
At least we are still getting shots. But if we lose to Pitts on HNIC...

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12-04-2003, 10:14 AM
  #24
Mowzie
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we'll beat Pittsburg but then its time for our Annual Holiday Slump that takes us until mid February.

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12-04-2003, 10:23 AM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mowzie
we'll beat Pittsburg but then its time for our Annual Holiday Slump that takes us until mid February.
Ya, but once March hits, we'll be rockin the win column again. Right up to making the playoffs by beating St. Louis, Dallas and Vancouver (all on the road) for our last 3 games of the season.

Gulp...

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