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New Jersey a perfect partner?

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Old
01-14-2007, 05:19 PM
  #1
The Perfect Human*
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New Jersey a perfect partner?

With the Devils looking to unload some D-men, as well as Gomez, would it be smart for us to make a move now? I've been reading around the Devils boards and it seems like the biggest problem with that team now (if it even is one) is that they have an abundance of D-men, and a few impending UFA's that they'd like to get rid of. I think now's the time for Lowe to get rid of Horcoff.

TO NJ:
Horcoff
Bergeron

To EDM:
Martin
Gomez
3rd Rounder

Rafalski seems unlikely to go, as he is the central core of that defense. But if we can pick up Martin, it would benefit us in the long-run, whether we make the playoffs or not. Gomez would be a good 2-way catalyst for the team, and a re-signable player if we want to (he IS from Alaska, Edmonton must feel like Florida), even then we could acqire some forward via free agency. Right now, i see defense as virtually impossible to acquire through UFA, and ultimately we should be trading away forward for defense, while recovering them with free agency.

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Old
01-14-2007, 05:28 PM
  #2
Jimmi Jenkins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
With the Devils looking to unload some D-men, as well as Gomez, would it be smart for us to make a move now? I've been reading around the Devils boards and it seems like the biggest problem with that team now (if it even is one) is that they have an abundance of D-men, and a few impending UFA's that they'd like to get rid of. I think now's the time for Lowe to get rid of Horcoff.

TO NJ:
Horcoff
Bergeron

To EDM:
Martin
Gomez
3rd Rounder

Rafalski seems unlikely to go, as he is the central core of that defense. But if we can pick up Martin, it would benefit us in the long-run, whether we make the playoffs or not. Gomez would be a good 2-way catalyst for the team, and a re-signable player if we want to (he IS from Alaska, Edmonton must feel like Florida), even then we could acqire some forward via free agency. Right now, i see defense as virtually impossible to acquire through UFA, and ultimately we should be trading away forward for defense, while recovering them with free agency.
Horcoff and Bergeron don't get you Gomez, let alone anything more.

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01-14-2007, 05:47 PM
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New Jersey might have a plethora of defencemen but why would they even consider moving a guy playing 26 minutes a night for them at a very reasonable salary?

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01-14-2007, 05:50 PM
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Langenbrunner, Gomez and Martin

Smyth
Torres
Roy
1st round pick
3rd round pick

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01-14-2007, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Horcoff and Bergeron don't get you Gomez, let alone anything more.
And Martin? I don't think the league would approve it, it's too one-sided!

I posted this earlier today in another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedOil83 View Post
We need a top center rather than a winger. Hell, I think our need for a top centerman is pretty damn close to the need for an upgrade on D.
What are the chances of doing something really big? Probably in seperate deals, but if there were to be a blockbuster...

Gomez and Rafalski for Horcoff, Bergeron, and a package of good picks and prospects, probably involving a blue-chipper (Schremp), first rounder or two, etc.

I don't see it because NJ is about to be relieved from all this cap trouble they're in. Not only is it going up, but they're already shedding tons of salary anyway, so they really have no reason to clear off $5-8M unless they have a few guaranteed UFA's they want to target.

We'd probably have to throw Torres or Lupul in there somewhere, and I don't see either of them being traded this year.

Sure would be nice having those two though..
Realistically, it's too high profile for Lowe. But if we wanted to make that happen, the package would have to be something like what we got for Prongs. Couple conditional picks, this 1st rounder, and a blue chip prospect, ala Schremp.

To recap, no pucking way do you get Gomez and Martin for Horcoff and Bergeron. That's the equivalent of trading Langkow and Zyuzin for Savard and Stuart.

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Old
01-14-2007, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
With the Devils looking to unload some D-men, as well as Gomez, would it be smart for us to make a move now? I've been reading around the Devils boards and it seems like the biggest problem with that team now (if it even is one) is that they have an abundance of D-men, and a few impending UFA's that they'd like to get rid of. I think now's the time for Lowe to get rid of Horcoff.

TO NJ:
Horcoff
Bergeron

To EDM:
Martin
Gomez
3rd Rounder

Rafalski seems unlikely to go, as he is the central core of that defense. But if we can pick up Martin, it would benefit us in the long-run, whether we make the playoffs or not. Gomez would be a good 2-way catalyst for the team, and a re-signable player if we want to (he IS from Alaska, Edmonton must feel like Florida), even then we could acqire some forward via free agency. Right now, i see defense as virtually impossible to acquire through UFA, and ultimately we should be trading away forward for defense, while recovering them with free agency.
Don't you know by now that KLowe can't make a trade with any team. There are 29 GMs out there who think anybody playing with the Oil are trash or junk.

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Old
01-14-2007, 10:51 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Smyth2Hemsky View Post
There are 29 GMs out there who think anybody playing with the Oil are trash or junk.
You're confusing GMs with fans on HF again Smyth2Hemsky.

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Old
01-14-2007, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemsky_83 View Post
With the Devils looking to unload some D-men, as well as Gomez, would it be smart for us to make a move now? I've been reading around the Devils boards and it seems like the biggest problem with that team now (if it even is one) is that they have an abundance of D-men, and a few impending UFA's that they'd like to get rid of. I think now's the time for Lowe to get rid of Horcoff.

TO NJ:
Horcoff
Bergeron

To EDM:
Martin
Gomez
3rd Rounder

Rafalski seems unlikely to go, as he is the central core of that defense. But if we can pick up Martin, it would benefit us in the long-run, whether we make the playoffs or not. Gomez would be a good 2-way catalyst for the team, and a re-signable player if we want to (he IS from Alaska, Edmonton must feel like Florida), even then we could acqire some forward via free agency. Right now, i see defense as virtually impossible to acquire through UFA, and ultimately we should be trading away forward for defense, while recovering them with free agency.
Hmm wouldn't one of the reasons NJ makes a deal like this is to not take on more salary?

I know not so much this year but next year instead of loading off Gomez for picks, prospects cheap roster player (and freeing up some nice Cap space in the process) they get a close to 4 mill guy in return and Bergeron and Martin become close to a wash in salaries. So NJ goes into next season with more salary.

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Old
01-14-2007, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Horcoff and Bergeron don't get you Gomez, let alone anything more.
Actually they do get you Gomez and Martin. The problem is how do we sign Gomez, Smyth, and Sykora next year?

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01-14-2007, 11:50 PM
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Any word on how Matvichuk's game is these days. I know he's lost a step but can he be slower than J.Smith.

Richard in the day was a chucker who always played with half a screw loose, plus he's a local boy.

IMO we miss a physical presence on the blueline as much as we miss a puck mover.

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01-15-2007, 12:51 AM
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You have to understand that first of all Gomez is a UFA who will ask for $5+ million this offseason so no way management would do that with Ryan Smyth also a UFA most likely getting that money. Secondly, when these trade rumours are thrown out on the boards, other teams also realize which players are struggling and trying to be shed (ie. Horcoff, Bergeron). We cant overvalue our players thinking other teams dont realize their state of play. Especially not with Lou Lamoriello, who I hope no one on here thinks Kevin Lowe will fleece. You gotta be kidding yourself to think K-Lowe is smarter than Lou Lamoriello, he's already gotten fleeced by him once (2003: trading away the Parise pick for a lower pick and getting selecting an iffy prospect in M-A Pouliot), and if anything the chances are more likely of this happening again rather than the other way around.

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Old
01-15-2007, 12:52 AM
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If you think that Horcoff, Bergeron, and a 3rd rounder can get you Scott Gomez and Paul Martin.. You're out of your mind. There's no reason to explain why either, because if you think that trade is even remotely feasible, you're completely insane. No offense or anything.

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01-15-2007, 01:24 AM
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Matvichuk for a 2nd anyone?

The Devils aren't interested in trading any core players i.e. no Gomez/Rafalski/Martin trades. There's a reason the team is in 2nd, and that is because Lou managed to keep the core together. Get rid of one main piece and the entire puzzle might collapse.

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01-15-2007, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesiFever View Post
You have to understand that first of all Gomez is a UFA who will ask for $5+ million this offseason so no way management would do that with Ryan Smyth also a UFA most likely getting that money. Secondly, when these trade rumours are thrown out on the boards, other teams also realize which players are struggling and trying to be shed (ie. Horcoff, Bergeron). We cant overvalue our players thinking other teams dont realize their state of play. Especially not with Lou Lamoriello, who I hope no one on here thinks Kevin Lowe will fleece. You gotta be kidding yourself to think K-Lowe is smarter than Lou Lamoriello, he's already gotten fleeced by him once (2003: trading away the Parise pick for a lower pick and getting selecting an iffy prospect in M-A Pouliot), and if anything the chances are more likely of this happening again rather than the other way around.
Right on. All these fans forget Lowe has made some bad moves in the past is is not infallible. Trades are a matter of luck. If you make enough of them, eventually some will turn out good.

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Old
01-15-2007, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by BleedOil83 View Post
If you think that Horcoff, Bergeron, and a 3rd rounder can get you Scott Gomez and Paul Martin.. You're out of your mind. There's no reason to explain why either, because if you think that trade is even remotely feasible, you're completely insane. No offense or anything.
you don't mean to offend the person that you're calling insane? Should that comment not be taken personally or should you re-phrase what you state to reflect what you mean?

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01-15-2007, 04:02 AM
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If Matvichuk were healthy I'd take him of their hands. Heck, even Lukowich would be better than what we have for a no.6.

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01-15-2007, 08:14 AM
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Actually they do get you Gomez and Martin. The problem is how do we sign Gomez, Smyth, and Sykora next year?
They actually don't, Bergeron has very little value and Gomez is far ahead of Horcoff.

New Jersey isn't in as much cap trouble next year.

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01-15-2007, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
They actually don't, Bergeron has very little value and Gomez is far ahead of Horcoff.

New Jersey isn't in as much cap trouble next year.
u obviously cant comprehend that Gomez is a UFA at the end of the year, unlikely to resign with NJ

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01-15-2007, 09:41 AM
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u obviously cant comprehend that Gomez is a UFA at the end of the year, unlikely to resign with NJ
Doesn't really matter. I'm sure that some other GM will offer something better than Bergeron and Horcoff for Gomez and Martin. There would definitely need to be picks and/or prospects from our side to sweeten the deal.

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01-15-2007, 12:54 PM
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you don't mean to offend the person that you're calling insane? Should that comment not be taken personally or should you re-phrase what you state to reflect what you mean?
The words I used were to express just how much that deal doesn't make sense. I don't need to re-phrase it because it's exactly what I mean.

I put in the "no offense" part so as to avoid the uptight people attacking me for being a little real. There are no hand gestures, you can't raise your voice. Sometimes you have to convey your emotion through words. And no, clearly it wasn't a personal attack.

If it still offended you - or the original poster - then so be it, I'm not here to sugar coat my opinions or be the most polite person in the world. That was hardly rude, anyways.

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01-15-2007, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by PuckNut View Post
Doesn't really matter. I'm sure that some other GM will offer something better than Bergeron and Horcoff for Gomez and Martin. There would definitely need to be picks and/or prospects from our side to sweeten the deal.
No freakin doubt! You have to understand that Gomez has more value to NJ than say Roli did to MIN. It's going to be more than a difference of a 3rd rounder in terms of the price we'd pay if we sign him next year. Even as a pure rental gomez commands more than Horcoff.

Besides, if a deal for Gomez goes down, chances are the team is going to get him to sign a deal before it happens.

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01-15-2007, 01:57 PM
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Not to come in and stir the pot but Lou would hang up the phone on the first proposal. The Devils are not trading Gomez and they are not trading Martin. Lou will not deal someone because of impending UFA status - especially someone as important to the team as Gomez. Martin had a rough start but has been great lately and has been playing like the top 3 d-man he was for the previous two seasons.

Now if the Oilers are looking for d-men, Matvichuk, Hale, and Lukowich are likely available. Matvichuk, after adjusting to the Devils system last season, played very solidly and was good in our top 4. He is not very fast but very good positionally and can hit. Hale seems to have fallen out of favor with Julien and I think with the emergence of Andy Greene (Matt Greene's brother) Hale might be on the way out. Lukowich is probably the least likely to be dealt as he has been spectacular lately. The asking price for all three would be around a 2nd-3rd rounder, maybe a decent prospect instead for Hale.

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01-15-2007, 02:59 PM
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Not to come in and stir the pot but Lou would hang up the phone on the first proposal. The Devils are not trading Gomez and they are not trading Martin. Lou will not deal someone because of impending UFA status - especially someone as important to the team as Gomez. Martin had a rough start but has been great lately and has been playing like the top 3 d-man he was for the previous two seasons.
Why wouldn't Lou trade an impeding UFA like Gomez? I've heard rumours the last 2-3 years that Gomez wasn't entirely happy with NJ and/or visa versa. If these rumours are true (I have no idea if they are) then Lou would be crazy not to try to get what he can for Gomez. If Gomez is unlikely to be signed then his value IS less than a Horcoff who is tied up for the next 3-4 years. Yes, Horcoff has stuggled offensively, especially earlier in the season, but he still is one of the best faceoff guys and PKer in the league. Edmonton is 4th in PK right now, they were 1st for quite awhile and Horcoff is a big part of that. It amazes me how so many supposed hockey fans are blinded by offensive stats....

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01-15-2007, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WHAfanatic View Post
Why wouldn't Lou trade an impeding UFA like Gomez? I've heard rumours the last 2-3 years that Gomez wasn't entirely happy with NJ and/or visa versa. If these rumours are true (I have no idea if they are) then Lou would be crazy not to try to get what he can for Gomez. If Gomez is unlikely to be signed then his value IS less than a Horcoff who is tied up for the next 3-4 years. Yes, Horcoff has stuggled offensively, especially earlier in the season, but he still is one of the best faceoff guys and PKer in the league. Edmonton is 4th in PK right now, they were 1st for quite awhile and Horcoff is a big part of that. It amazes me how so many supposed hockey fans are blinded by offensive stats....
I'm not blinded by anything. Gomez is better than Horcoff, and he is way too important to the Devils. This team struggled MIGHTILY to do anything offensively when he was out of the lineup earlier in the season. Gomez is the catalyst and he will not be traded. I don't understand why so many people on HF are obsessed with dealing impending UFA. Yeah, a team out of contention will do that, but the Devils are fighting for the cup, and they will not downgrade their roster.

And Gomez is actually quite content in NJ. He just won't take a paycut to stay, so the Devils will have to pony up the cash. With the cap likely going up to $47.5M that probably won't be a problem. And even if Gomez does leave, there are other options in the FA market. NJ also has the option of moving Parise back to center, and calling up Bergfors.

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01-15-2007, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by WHAfanatic View Post
Why wouldn't Lou trade an impeding UFA like Gomez? I've heard rumours the last 2-3 years that Gomez wasn't entirely happy with NJ and/or visa versa. If these rumours are true (I have no idea if they are) then Lou would be crazy not to try to get what he can for Gomez. If Gomez is unlikely to be signed then his value IS less than a Horcoff who is tied up for the next 3-4 years. Yes, Horcoff has stuggled offensively, especially earlier in the season, but he still is one of the best faceoff guys and PKer in the league. Edmonton is 4th in PK right now, they were 1st for quite awhile and Horcoff is a big part of that. It amazes me how so many supposed hockey fans are blinded by offensive stats....
Let's not get carried away now.. Gomez is in a whole other world from Horcoff, no matter what their contract status is.

I don't think a deal would go down in which someone is attaining Gomez as a rental. If he is traded, I think he'll sign long term first.

Even if he were traded as a rental, why would you want someone back who is half the player and only 1.5M cheaper?

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