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Murray clears waivers, stays with team

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Old
01-17-2007, 02:14 PM
  #26
LesCanadiens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitué View Post
Who gave him that nice one-way contract ? Gainey.
Who re-signed Downey ? Gainey
Who gave Ribeiro a 1.9 million $ ? Gainey
Who traded him for 2,4 million $ Niiniimaa ? Gainey
Who lost Hainsey and Beauchemin for sweet nothing ? Gainey
Who signed UFA Samsonov ? Gainey

The most positive thing is ever done is trading Theodore... But he got only Aebisher for him. No draft choice.. Nothing else.
If you'd take a second to look at the bigger picture, you'd see that Gainey's influence on this team has overall increased our level of competiveness and also restored pride in the org.

You have to take chances to make things happen. Gainey has, and has won some and lost some. But overall we are in much better shape post-Gainey.

Please ask hockey people what they think of his capabilites. For example, Brian Burke called him one of the greatest hockey minds in the NHL. Others have said similar things.

God, some people just don't get it.

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01-17-2007, 02:17 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by BladesofSteel View Post
Who's a great GM then?
That's an easy one....Snow...

Seriously, I like Brian Burke.

Don't get me wrong though, while Gainey has his best and not-so-best moments, I'm definately behind him and wish we had nobody but him at this moment.

But it shouldn't permit us to only praise him and never criticize him when needed.

The best thing to do to remind us that Gainey is top 10 is to look at our lineup 3 or 4 years ago and look at ours now.....despite having only 1 top 5 draft pick and having to face the UFA reality the Habs are facing with....and now the CAP with everything that it will mean as far as trades are concerned.

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01-17-2007, 02:19 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by habitué View Post
Lacroix was foaming at the mouth just thinking he got the second coming of Patrick Roy in Denver. Why did Gainey played his cards a bit better and get a draft pick (even a second) for that guy ?
You think Theodore's 3.46 GAA and .88 SP had Lacroix foaming at the mouth? You may be the only one. Or are you insisting that he (Gainey) should have known that Theodore was not capable of putting up decent numbers like he did when Gainey took over in 2003? Either way you're going out a long way with the speculation on what Pierre Lacroix was offering (and when.)

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01-17-2007, 02:40 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by habitué View Post
I would say he is an average GM at best.
I think he has a lot of the qualities of an excellent GM but seems a bit reactionnary. I'm not really critical of what you listed, some moves he felt he had to make due to circumstances, some were over reaction. MY problem is that he has a set of circumstances here in Mtl. Acquiring players on the market is extremely difficult. Say it's because of taxes, evil media, spoiled fan base, wives thinking they can't but doritos, take whatever stupid misconception is out there but the bottom line is that Mtl still isn't a glamor choice on the free market. We can disagree about the reasons, but the result is the same.

So, my issue at times is that, knowing he couldn't get the guy he wanted on D, in 05, he signs Dandenault, a bottom pairing guy, to a salary that is probably high for a bottom pairing guy, esp. on a team that already had Rivet overpaid. Then he signs Bouillon to more than he had to. He locks up Begin, Murray, probably gives Begin more than he had to. I think good thoughts of Bouillon,Dandy, Begin, or even Murray to an extent, though I won't defend his play this year obviously. So, he's ties up a lot of cap space in non crucial positions.

He needed a name scorer in 05, no one was interested. So, he gets Kovalev, feeling he needed someone and no one else said yes. This year, we go after some names again, Elias,Arnott, Shanahan, we make a good bargaining chip but again they say no. Enter Samsonov. It's easy to say we should have gone with Kostitsyn now, but at the time, he felt we needed a scoring lw, who thought he'd tank like this ?

So, yeah, I agree that he's made reactionnary moves, Ribeiro's deal was one of them, so I have to believe it was a matter of time, and some urging from his coach.

I think Gainey's strongest attribute is who he is. He is respected, he's a presence, and I thought it would help having a guy like that in charge. The team is more stable that they were, the young talent is attributable to Savard to an extent, but letting it develop has been important.

So, I agree that some moves haven't worked, though I get why they were made. He has to play the hand he's dealt in here at times.

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Old
01-17-2007, 02:44 PM
  #30
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The comfortable thing about Gainey is he's not going to sell the farm for any players. We're going to keep young talent and that's what I want.

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Old
01-17-2007, 03:06 PM
  #31
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Im glad and hope we see Garth back soon .

to early to write him off ,he is still young
just needs to re light the fire .

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01-17-2007, 03:48 PM
  #32
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Well we won't miss Murray at all. What he brought can be had from Lapierre, Ferland and a bunch of others. With a little more offense from the others.

As far as Gainey is concerned. He hired Timmins, so all those draft picks are Gainey draft picks. He has to flourish or perrish with them. Same as the Terry Ryan and Matt Higgins were Houle draft picks, and we perrished, oh so much with them.

It's easy to stand behind your computer and say he made a mistake for this move and that move, especially when you have the benefit of looking back. He got what he could for the cancer that was Theodore. Yes he gave him that salary but Theo would not have played for less anyways, or much less. Anyways, even for the same money, I prefer Abi to Theo right now. And next year, Abi is gone. Ribs was another distraction on this team and Bob got a defenseman which we needed. Is he a great defenseman. No, not even a good one this year, although better than made out to be. At that time it was either Niinimaa or Dan Jancevski in the lineup. I guess they were more confortable with Janne.

Beachemin was a mistake. Hainsey would still be no better than 8th on the depth chart here. What else are you people complaining about, Downey. $450k. League minimum. Yeah right. I guess we could have signed Brashear for $1 mil and listen to him whine that he wants more ice time and watch him take dumb penalties after dumb penalties all year.

As far as the 600K one way contract goes. It is minimal. Would anyone prefer a 2 way contract at 900K instead.

And now, Sammy. Yeah he sucks, I've watched him all year, he has what 6 goals and 4 of those came in 2 goal games. So he's been pretty pathetic. He has never been this pathetic before though. Just think of the Ducks offering $6mil ot Federov and him doing absolutely nothing. It happens every year. Not all UFA come into new teams and play like superstars. Some are real dogs. Could be worse, just think if we had offered Khabibulin, Aucoin and Cullimore a contract and they all signed. Almost everyone was complaining that the Habs weren't signing anyone, so they went out and signed someone and we're still not happy. Jeeze, what will it take for people to stop their bellyachin'. I bet if the Habs win the cup in June, after the customary riot, people will still complain that such and such a person didn't do enough.

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Old
01-17-2007, 04:11 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitué View Post
Who gave him that nice one-way contract ? Gainey.
Who re-signed Downey ? Gainey
Who gave Ribeiro a 1.9 million $ ? Gainey
Who traded him for 2,4 million $ Niiniimaa ? Gainey
Who lost Hainsey and Beauchemin for sweet nothing ? Gainey
Who signed UFA Samsonov ? Gainey

The most positive thing is ever done is trading Theodore... But he got only Aebisher for him. No draft choice.. Nothing else.
All you listed is minor moves with minor players.

When it comes to major moves and important players, Gainey has done very well for himself.

Who brought Jonhson over Zednik? Gainey (Good versatile 2nd/3rd liner)
Who brought Huet over Théodore? Gainey (HIS MOST IMPORTANT MOVE)
Who brought Bonk over Joe Juneau? Gainey (Important big shutdown guy we desperatly missed)
Who traded to get Kovalev for only Balej and a 2nd round pick? Gainey (Star player, playoff beast)
Who brought Bégin when we desperatly needed an energy guy? Gainey
Who brought Samsonov over Bulis? Gainey (Samsonov is having a better season than Bulis (which is unbelievable))


He has remodeled our team in a big way and we are very near to be a contender. His only mistakes have been on 4th liners, 5-6th defensemen and fringe prospects who turned out decent.

So I suggest you look at the big picture and don't try to find all his small mistakes like a little whiny basher.

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Old
01-17-2007, 04:31 PM
  #34
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Every single GM makes mistakes. Look at Clarke he completely busted, Feaster used his whole cap and let Khabi go.. Muckler missed out on Perreault like everyone else, he also signed Gerber who had a horrendous playoffs and still got 3 mil. To be quite honest the one GM who hasnt made many mistakes is Kenny Holland, and thats because his team has been good forever almost, all hes had to do is draft well and get players at the deadline.

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01-17-2007, 04:35 PM
  #35
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This team has done nothing but gotten better since Gainey arrived, thats the way I look at it.

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Old
01-17-2007, 05:16 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitué View Post
Who gave him that nice one-way contract ? Gainey.
Who re-signed Downey ? Gainey
Who gave Ribeiro a 1.9 million $ ? Gainey
Who traded him for 2,4 million $ Niiniimaa ? Gainey
Who lost Hainsey and Beauchemin for sweet nothing ? Gainey
Who signed UFA Samsonov ? Gainey

The most positive thing is ever done is trading Theodore... But he got only Aebisher for him. No draft choice.. Nothing else.
This post makes me legitimately embarassed to be a Canadiens fan.

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Old
01-17-2007, 05:21 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by BladesofSteel View Post
Who's a great GM then?
I'd take Brian Burke over Bob Gainey, but he's made some mistakes as well.

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Old
01-17-2007, 05:23 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
This team has done nothing but gotten better since Gainey arrived, thats the way I look at it.
You're right.

Gainey did some good things, but I truly believe the reason we've gotten better since Gainey arrived is Andre Savard. He's the one who's responsible for drafting Higgins, Plekanec, Perezhogin and Komisarek. It's too bad Savard didn't get to stay long enough to see the fruit of his labor...these players are currently in the process of becoming big time contributors...and that's probably one of the main reasons why we're getting better these past couple of years.

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Old
01-17-2007, 05:30 PM
  #39
Blades 0f Steel
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I'd take Brian Burke over Bob Gainey, but he's made some mistakes as well.
He's great, but a lot of people are questioning his selection of Bobby Ryan.

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Old
01-17-2007, 05:36 PM
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Gainey is without a doubt the best thing to happen since 1993!

Montreal needed a general. I said it for years before he arrived. Someone to put the media and fans in their proper place and bring stability to a hockey hotbed.

When he defended Brisebois, he did what I HAD BEEN FREAKIN' PRAYING SOMEONE WOULD DO FOR YEARS.


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01-17-2007, 05:38 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habitué View Post
Who gave him that nice one-way contract ? Gainey.
Who re-signed Downey ? Gainey
Who gave Ribeiro a 1.9 million $ ? Gainey
Who traded him for 2,4 million $ Niiniimaa ? Gainey
Who lost Hainsey and Beauchemin for sweet nothing ? Gainey
Who signed UFA Samsonov ? Gainey

The most positive thing is ever done is trading Theodore... But he got only Aebisher for him. No draft choice.. Nothing else.
I never thought of it that way...The Habs should fire Gainey and rehire Reggie Houle

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01-17-2007, 05:40 PM
  #42
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I think he has a lot of the qualities of an excellent GM but seems a bit reactionnary. I'm not really critical of what you listed, some moves he felt he had to make due to circumstances, some were over reaction. MY problem is that he has a set of circumstances here in Mtl. Acquiring players on the market is extremely difficult. Say it's because of taxes, evil media, spoiled fan base, wives thinking they can't but doritos, take whatever stupid misconception is out there but the bottom line is that Mtl still isn't a glamor choice on the free market. We can disagree about the reasons, but the result is the same.

So, my issue at times is that, knowing he couldn't get the guy he wanted on D, in 05, he signs Dandenault, a bottom pairing guy, to a salary that is probably high for a bottom pairing guy, esp. on a team that already had Rivet overpaid. Then he signs Bouillon to more than he had to. He locks up Begin, Murray, probably gives Begin more than he had to. I think good thoughts of Bouillon,Dandy, Begin, or even Murray to an extent, though I won't defend his play this year obviously. So, he's ties up a lot of cap space in non crucial positions.

He needed a name scorer in 05, no one was interested. So, he gets Kovalev, feeling he needed someone and no one else said yes. This year, we go after some names again, Elias,Arnott, Shanahan, we make a good bargaining chip but again they say no. Enter Samsonov. It's easy to say we should have gone with Kostitsyn now, but at the time, he felt we needed a scoring lw, who thought he'd tank like this ?

So, yeah, I agree that he's made reactionnary moves, Ribeiro's deal was one of them, so I have to believe it was a matter of time, and some urging from his coach.

I think Gainey's strongest attribute is who he is. He is respected, he's a presence, and I thought it would help having a guy like that in charge. The team is more stable that they were, the young talent is attributable to Savard to an extent, but letting it develop has been important.

So, I agree that some moves haven't worked, though I get why they were made. He has to play the hand he's dealt in here at times.

I couldn't agree more.

It is easy to say some of his moves were bad AFTER the fact. Everyone has 20/20 hindsight as they say.

And I also must add the trading of Theo was brilliant! He is lucky he got anything for him (considering his salary) - to get Abby was a bonus I think.

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Old
01-17-2007, 05:57 PM
  #43
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In defense of Gainey: a little while ago, there was a thread here about how the Avs were looking to trade Theodore AND a 1st, for practically a warm body. So for Gainey to have gotten a very good back-up/average starting goalie, is IMHO, not too shabby.

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Old
01-17-2007, 06:04 PM
  #44
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Garth is a good guy but the Habs have no room wich makes him useless on the team, hopefully we can ship him somewhere where he will get playing time and where we could get something out of him in return...

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01-17-2007, 06:12 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by habitué View Post
Who gave him that nice one-way contract ? Gainey.
Who re-signed Downey ? Gainey
Who gave Ribeiro a 1.9 million $ ? Gainey
Who traded him for 2,4 million $ Niiniimaa ? Gainey
Who lost Hainsey and Beauchemin for sweet nothing ? Gainey
Who signed UFA Samsonov ? Gainey

The most positive thing is ever done is trading Theodore... But he got only Aebisher for him. No draft choice.. Nothing else.
I can't believe you are knocking Gainey again, every GM makes moves that work and don't work out. Look at Sather in NY, Look at JFJ in Toronto, Look at Lowe in Edmonton. WE HAVE ONE OF THE BEST TOP 5 GM IN THE GAMES!!
I am so sick of you bashing him since he shipped off your little friend to Dallas.
Do you want Houle again
Do you want Mr. Nobody Important Savard Savard has zero respect in the GM world.
Gainey has transformed this team into a top team, don't look at these past three weeks only. I am pissed lately too, but I do not blame Gainey for losing Hainsey
The only mistake I can see is us Keeping Francy and not protecting Beauchemin.
In BOB we trust.

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Old
01-17-2007, 06:30 PM
  #46
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Garth is a good guy but the Habs have no room wich makes him useless on the team, hopefully we can ship him somewhere where he will get playing time and where we could get something out of him in return...
How dare you put this thread back on topic!

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01-17-2007, 06:33 PM
  #47
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Lacroix was foaming at the mouth just thinking he got the second coming of Patrick Roy in Denver. Why did Gainey played his cards a bit better and get a draft pick (even a second) for that guy ?
Because When Theodore was trade he was still injured ! That doesn t help the value of a player . Injured , Big contract in a deep slump that isn t finish yet !!

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01-17-2007, 06:42 PM
  #48
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He's the one who's responsible for drafting Higgins, Plekanec, Perezhogin and Komisarek. It's too bad Savard didn't get to stay long enough to see the fruit of his labor...these players are currently in the process of becoming big time contributors...and that's probably one of the main reasons why we're getting better these past couple of years.
I wonder where these guys would be under Savard at this point, probably still playing in the AHL so he could sign all the washed up vets he wanted like Dackell, Sundstrom, Juneau, Mckay, Audette.. Am I missing one or two ?
Some say that Gainey is bad/terrible at negociating but imo, Savard made some disgusting move as well... I'm proud that he isn't our GM anymore but I guess we'll eventually miss him as our scout.

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01-17-2007, 06:49 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Habitué has a point that Gainey is not the most incredible GM to have walk on this planet. He did make some mistakes and we should just acknowledge that. Once it's done, we can now deal with that and go on.

He also made some great things and we do already acknowlege it. But to think, like some do, that he has no flaws, is irrealistic and you saw the examples.
Yes exactly. He's made some good moves, and he's made some bad moves as well. It happened here, it happened in Dallas, and it will happen again. Does that make him a bad GM? No. Does it mean he can make mistakes. Hell yeah!

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01-17-2007, 06:53 PM
  #50
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Guys, guys...Why are you taking anything habitué says seriously?

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