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Rumour: Rivet and Samsonov for Aucoin (Bob McKenzie on TSN)

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Old
01-18-2007, 12:18 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by JFB View Post
I wouldn't touch Aucoin with a 100-foot pole. This would be a panic move, and it would hurt us in the next 2 years.
You probably right. I would rather see an improvement move from Gainey's part. I don't want to complain but I'm waiting for a next good move from his part. I can't remember the last time he made a steal. No move "à la" Sergei Zubov vs. Kevin Hatcher since he's our GM. I think the pickup of Bégin on waiver was his best. Yes the deal of Kovalev was a good one, but we still waiting the 4 millions guy to show up. Giving 1.9 millions to Ribeiro was a joke. Trading Ribeiro for Niinimaa was terrible even if no-one in the league wanted Ribeiro, you have a guy earning 2.1 millions seating on the press-box each game. Signing Samsonov for 7 millions for 2 years seems not worthing anything then controversy.

So, I'm still wondering what Jean Perron's talking about with the "Gainey effects"? I'm little bit disappointed by his work, but I still love Gainey, but I would like to see him making a great move, like the above mention for Zubov. I still believe in this team and our GM, but we all know that we missing something. I know he tried hard for Elias and Shanny. He should try to had this kind of player on this team. I know it's not an easy job to do, but it's his job to make it.

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Old
01-18-2007, 12:18 AM
  #102
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To me if its Samsonov for Aucoin it is a gamble, however a good gamble. Samsonov doesn't look like the player he once was, and both would be stuck for one more year either way. The difference is, Montreal doesn't have the depth on defense that they have at forward. I would wager that anyone of Kostitsyn, Perezhogin or almost anyone could play as well as him.

The upside is, an open roster spot in the top 6 forward spot, and potentially if Aucoin can stay healthy, a defenseman who can log HUGE minutes.

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01-18-2007, 12:26 AM
  #103
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More i think about it if we are trading with the Hawks they should also go after

Vandermeer
Ruutu

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Old
01-18-2007, 12:36 AM
  #104
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Aucoin was a fringe d-man as a canuck until mike keenan took over.

Keenan has an effect on some guys and aucoin was obviously one of them. He scored about 20 goals or so with the nucks in 99-00 I believe. Very solid.

I haven;t followed him much since then but since aucoin was a fringe NHLer in his first few years in the league, one has to question whether he was just a late bloomer who still has a lot to offer... or was he just a flash in the pan for a few seasons whose time has passed.

Anyways, my first instinct says that this trade would be worth a shot

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01-18-2007, 12:45 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Aucoin was a fringe d-man as a canuck until mike keenan took over.

Keenan has an effect on some guys and aucoin was obviously one of them. He scored about 20 goals or so with the nucks in 99-00 I believe. Very solid.

I haven;t followed him much since then but since aucoin was a fringe NHLer in his first few years in the league, one has to question whether he was just a late bloomer who still has a lot to offer... or was he just a flash in the pan for a few seasons whose time has passed.

Anyways, my first instinct says that this trade would be worth a shot
He had a big year in Vancouver but he was also very good in NYI. If i remember correctly he used to log 30 minutes of ice time a game. I don't know if his play is a result of a bad team, and playing in Chicago can't be easy considering the lack of desire to win by ownership.

I think he is could still be a good defenseman. If Montreal could deal Samsonov for Aucoin, it is low risk, high reward imo.

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01-18-2007, 12:48 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Nash13 View Post
He had a big year in Vancouver but he was also very good in NYI. If i remember correctly he used to log 30 minutes of ice time a game. I don't know if his play is a result of a bad team, and playing in Chicago can't be easy considering the lack of desire to win by ownership.

I think he is could still be a good defenseman. If Montreal could deal Samsonov for Aucoin, it is low risk, high reward imo.
I agree

I'm basically on your boat

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01-18-2007, 12:49 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I'm basically on your boat
(insert lower mainland joke here) lol

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Old
01-18-2007, 12:53 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
Anyways, my first instinct says that this trade would be worth a shot
I concur. Living in Vancouver and seeing him play a lot; I know what he's capable of when healthy. Another poster emphasized huge minutes, and if healthy, that's exactly what he can do.

Especially to dump Samsonov, you take a little to get rid of a little.

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01-18-2007, 02:04 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
We are a small team upfront, and will have to generate our offensive chances from the blueline...shots through traffic, scrambles etc. Until BG fixes the lack of size, and grit upfront..its a move that would work.
yeah , a jason chimera type would be nice .

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01-18-2007, 02:16 AM
  #110
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The bottom line is a Dman has to be going the other way. We already have too many on the roster as it is. Obivously we'd all love them to take Niinimaa but thats unrealistic. What about:

Samsonov
Boullion
3rd round draft pick

Aucoin

We give them the 3rd because of more salary going there way and the fact that Boullion contract is longer then Aucoin's. We get bigger by giving up the two smallest players on our roster. Chicago gets more skill up front. Taking on a little more salary this year doesn't really bother them since I doubt they have aspirations of adding players at the deadline as they'll be long out of the playoff race. Win Win IMO.

Aucoin - Souray
Markov - Komisarak
Dandneault - Rivet

Solid IMO.

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Old
01-18-2007, 02:20 AM
  #111
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I wouldn't do this deal. Our D is not spectacular but it can do the job. Our problem is at the 2nd line C position, and that's what we should trade Sammy for.

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01-18-2007, 06:02 AM
  #112
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This deal makes a lot of sense to me.

Right now something has to give. Theres a need to make a move to stir things and getting rid of Samsonov might clear some air in Habs locker-room. And even more importantly this deal would make UFA dman negotiations slightly easier in two ways.

Aucoin would become an instant replacement for Rivet, in terms of play and leadership department. If Sourays becomes too expensive for us to keep (along with more important player Markov) he could take his PP gunner role for the next couple seasons.

Aucoins health is the biggest concern I have. Thenagain his major injury problems started with Chicago. He had four relatively healthy seasons before the lockout with Eastern conference teams Isles and Bolts. Who knows, maybe theres a problem with Hawks physical coaching or something. 33 years isnt that much anymore with all the medical knowhow we have nowadays. Anyhow, I'm sure Gainey will do his homework before making this happen.

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Old
01-18-2007, 06:23 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I remember when everyone cherished Aucoin and thought he'd be a terrific signing for Montreal to make.
I remember that too. 2 years ago, these boards were frothing at the mouth for this guy. Strikes me as buying low (assuming that Samsonov's level stays where it is...), provided his Augroin problems are behind him. If so, insurance in case Souray bolts, and BG can concentrate on signing Markov.

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01-18-2007, 06:25 AM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
I wouldn't do this deal. Our D is not spectacular but it can do the job. Our problem is at the 2nd line C position, and that's what we should trade Sammy for.
Sammy has borderline negative value right now.

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01-18-2007, 06:38 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by GermanyMontrealExpat View Post
Sammy has borderline negative value right now.
Exactly. Right now hes not going to get much, unless theres some major assets thrown into package with him. At best hes going to get another struggling big price tag player in return - like Aucoin.

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01-18-2007, 06:51 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Madevilz View Post
maybe not, but we would be making some cap space
Not really considering we'll replace Rivet with a 4M$/year d-men...

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01-18-2007, 07:02 AM
  #117
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Could make sense but we've to get rid of Janne if we want to win this deal to be honest. It's a pretty fair trade especially for Chicago who would like to have some vets with their young team. I'm not saying we've to include Janne in this deal but we've to get rid of him before trade deadline imo. He wins too much to be the stud of the press box. Dealing for Ruutu would be pretty unlikely but if we can deal for him why not? He might be injury prone but we're so desesperate at center. Plekanec is doing a fine job as of late tho'.

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01-18-2007, 07:14 AM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredez View Post
He's not mobile and will get beat almost every time one on one : OK this is greatly overblown by the Spezza and Bergeron highlights. I don't think many players could have stopped those moves. Souray is a lot better than people give him credit for defensively.
Souray is horrible 1 on 1.
I recall Chara dancing around him one game. Souray made him look like Jagr on that play.

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01-18-2007, 07:19 AM
  #119
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Yeah that't what I thought...

And his 2 best season was when he was paired with Kenny Johnson. Maybe Aucoin with Markov would do a great duo...he's better offensively, and also deffensively from what I remember. 2 years ago, when we were playing against the Islanders, Houde and Pednault were always saying that Aucoin was on the ice for so much time...see around 30 minutes a game.

He could be a great defenceman in Montreal...I'm pretty sure. It's a gamble, but with our UFA situation, it would be a good trade.

Higgins-Koivu-Ryder
Latendresse-Plekanec-Kovalev
Perezhogin-Bonk-Johnson
Streit-Lapierre-Kostistyn??

Markov-Aucoin
Souray-Komisarek
Bouillon-Dandenault

I think we have a better line-up like that...

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01-18-2007, 07:36 AM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyMontrealExpat View Post
Sammy has borderline negative value right now.
Exactly.

I haven't read the whole thread, but if thisis an actual deal being considered, here's the way I see the math. Samson at 3.6 next year is gone but Aucoin at 4.5 **?} not sure. Rivet's 2.5 comes off the books this year, so it gives a bit more space this year. Sammy being gone is key, Rivet would cost if he was here, so you still come out ahead next year. So, do you assume that Samsonov is replaced from within, Kostitsyn and Aucoin would equal what Rivet and Sammy would make. Is Aucoin, right now, a better d man than Rivet ? He's power play insurance if Souray leaves, which becomes more likely as his old gang gets broken up. Weigh in 2 more years of Aucoin if that is in fact his deal.

I like Rivet, wonder how Sammy would do with a different line combo, but would be tempted.
To have a real opinion, I'd have to see more of Aucoin though.

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Old
01-18-2007, 07:44 AM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanyMontrealExpat View Post
Sammy has borderline negative value right now.
Exactly the same was said for Theodore......Now, your biggest challenge, if you accept it, is to find somebody totally in love with Sammy like Lacroix was for Theo....

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01-18-2007, 07:51 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Exactly the same was said for Theodore......Now, your biggest challenge, if you accept it, is to find somebody totally in love with Sammy like Lacroix was for Theo....
I think you'll find a lot of teams going forward with, 'what was I thinking ?' contracts.

Theo,Conroy, to name 2. Sammy is ours right now, maybe Kovalev. It's a matter of taking Aucoin's who Tallon wants no part of for ours. If the idea is that Aucoin would be better on a better team, so maybe the 2 extra years work for us, well I get the reasoning, but don't know the player well enough. I've read so many different opinions on Aucoin, I don't know what to think. If a deal is made, someone on staff, pro scouting ,has had to do a selling job to his boss, so let's see.

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Old
01-18-2007, 07:58 AM
  #123
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One more thing on Aucoin...IMO, he's not good enough to be a top 2 defenceman, but when he his used like he have too, he's a good defenceman. I mean, in Chicago, he was suppose to be THE #1 defenceman, which he's not. In Montreal, he would be our #3 or 4 defenceman with the talent to be a borderline #2. I think he would play a lot better here...and if he was captain of the Hawks, he could be a leader here...ala Rivet. I'm all for this deal, and it would open a spot for a young player!

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01-18-2007, 08:00 AM
  #124
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The big problem right now is offence, how can it not be when the team is shutout two in a row and three times in the last couple of weeks. So if they are moving Sammy the must be getting some offence from somewhere else via trade unless they plan on giving someone from the 'Dogs a chance. Not sure if I like this at all. Aucoin had a couple a good seasons but has done noting much since being in Chicago.

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01-18-2007, 08:26 AM
  #125
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Enough with the reclaimation projects already. I don't want this team to add another 'could be' with a high salary. That type of thinking is best suited for the Leafs.

If Aucoin is the best the Habs can get, I say we have patience with Samsonov and Rivet. People talk about what Aucoin has done in the past, well what about these two?

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