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01-19-2007, 06:36 PM
  #1
neg marron
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what kind of nhler

with his current record chl pace what kind of nhler will tavares be and will he be in the same category as esposito and crosby

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01-19-2007, 07:19 PM
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Tavares' potential >>>>>>>>>> Espo's potential, IMO.

Crosby is in a league of his own, and no prospect should be compared to him at this point. Crosby, at 19, is arguably the best hockey player on earth right now, at ANY age. And he's 19 years old. Let that sink in. The kid is truly a generational talent.

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01-19-2007, 08:59 PM
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DeathFromAbove
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I am from Oshawa, but I honestly think Tavares is comparable to Crosby.

His goal-scoring ability is alot better than Crosby's and he seems to be a pretty solid defensive player to boot.

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01-19-2007, 09:32 PM
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I love Tavares, but he's not Crosby. TU said it best. There simply isn't another Crosby on the planet.

He's talented as hell, but nowhere near as flashy. You KNOW when Crosby is on the ice.

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01-20-2007, 12:15 AM
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Leslie Treff
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Tavares is very special, but as of right now, I see him more like a Mike Modano, not quite the generational talent, but highly successful and an all-star year after year. Crosby will almost certainly be a generational talent. But I still think its too soon to tell. (I may be in the minority thinking this, but 2 years are not enough to be certain.) Of course this is only my opinion, and Tavares looks terrific, but just not as good as Crosby at that age.

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01-20-2007, 08:12 AM
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David McConnor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neg marron View Post
with his current record chl pace what kind of nhler will tavares be and will he be in the same category as esposito and crosby
Nevermind that. Putting Esposito in a class with Crosby and Tavares is embarrassing.

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01-20-2007, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Leslie Treff View Post
Tavares is very special, but as of right now, I see him more like a Mike Modano, not quite the generational talent, but highly successful and an all-star year after year. Crosby will almost certainly be a generational talent. But I still think its too soon to tell. (I may be in the minority thinking this, but 2 years are not enough to be certain.) Of course this is only my opinion, and Tavares looks terrific, but just not as good as Crosby at that age.
I wonder to myself, when a kid playing in the OHL has 44 goals & 83 points in 41 games at the age of 16, how much better can he really get?

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01-20-2007, 06:46 PM
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Alison
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Esposito who?
Tavares is and will remain his whole career an elite player. It's like a sixth sense for him to be in the right place at the right time. This is not a devloped talent it is something natural to him. Very few players have what he does. And when they come along you enjoy watching them immensly because they are not a dime a dozen.

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01-22-2007, 09:12 AM
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Leslie Treff
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Originally Posted by RyanDFA View Post
I wonder to myself, when a kid playing in the OHL has 44 goals & 83 points in 41 games at the age of 16, how much better can he really get?

You can't completely go by points in these things. There are guys who have put up points like crazy in the CHL who have never even made it to the NHL. Scoring is really nice, and can be an indication of high offensive potential, but there are intangibles that make a player great or even really good. Tavares has alot of them, but in my opinion, is not quite in Crosby's league. Do not mistake what I am saying, he is a huge talent, but he is more like Modano than Gretzky. (BTW, Modano had 62 points in 70 games with Prince Albert at 16. As a rookie, under the old rules, in a very defensive league. At 17, he had 127 points in 65 games.)

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01-22-2007, 09:31 AM
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Paging Corey Locke, Corey Locke please report to the Bigs.....

GP 66 G 63 A 88 Pts 151 .....

And he won't be dressing anytime in the NHL

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01-22-2007, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by RyanDFA View Post
I am from Oshawa, but I honestly think Tavares is comparable to Crosby.

His goal-scoring ability is alot better than Crosby's and he seems to be a pretty solid defensive player to boot.
Crosby is my hero...but i'd have to say...watch out this kids amazing!!...and i meet him!!!.lol...no one believes me that he'll be a star!!...and yeah he's got this many points and he still has till 09!! he's gonna be raking up some points!

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01-22-2007, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Leslie Treff View Post
You can't completely go by points in these things. There are guys who have put up points like crazy in the CHL who have never even made it to the NHL. Scoring is really nice, and can be an indication of high offensive potential, but there are intangibles that make a player great or even really good. Tavares has alot of them, but in my opinion, is not quite in Crosby's league. Do not mistake what I am saying, he is a huge talent, but he is more like Modano than Gretzky. (BTW, Modano had 62 points in 70 games with Prince Albert at 16. As a rookie, under the old rules, in a very defensive league. At 17, he had 127 points in 65 games.)
The Crosby thing, I fully agree.

Funny you pick Modano as I don't think Tavares will ever have the wheels he has.
Tavares potential is hard to find a comparison for . He just scores so many damm goals. After 45 as a fifteen year old I wondered what that would translate into as a sixteen year old. Now it looks like it will be near 70. What does that make next year,,,,85 and the year after. I 've seen him play pretty much every home game and score every way possible. At 15 he got knocked down quite a bit ( scored quite a few on his way down) but I think that was due to lack of physical maturity. That has changed quite a bit this year . He is great shooter ,dangerous behind the net, able to hold the puck in traffic and starting more and more to show vision and passing ability. You would have to drag him back into his own end to introduce him to his own goalie but when you score a goal a game you are allowed to be last back.
In over twenty years I have never had the chance to watch a player at this age develop but I am enjoying every minute of it.

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01-23-2007, 12:56 PM
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thomasincanada
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How about Bossy for a possible comp? I've heard his name once or twice when people have discussed Tavares.

I was pretty young during his prime but what I do remember is a guy who could snipe and score goals like nobody else in NHL history...

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01-23-2007, 03:32 PM
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LIke several mentionned there is no such thing as a Crosby-Esposito Categories... there's the crosby categorie... then there's the other ones.

I really think that Tavares project as a lot better player than Esposito... who still should be an excellent player.

So he'll be great... most Probably not Crosby Great... but probably more Lecavalier Great

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01-23-2007, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by thomasincanada View Post
How about Bossy for a possible comp? I've heard his name once or twice when people have discussed Tavares.

I was pretty young during his prime but what I do remember is a guy who could snipe and score goals like nobody else in NHL history...
Yeah I've heard that too and I think it's a good one but I'm going to go with Bossy shooter wise along with what may develop into a better playmaking ability then Bossy had.

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01-24-2007, 07:58 AM
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thomasincanada
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Originally Posted by leafmon View Post
Yeah I've heard that too and I think it's a good one but I'm going to go with Bossy shooter wise along with what may develop into a better playmaking ability then Bossy had.
Bossy was possibly the best shooter (and scorer) the NHL has ever seen (hard shot.. accurate) - so that's setting the bar pretty high

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01-24-2007, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasincanada View Post
How about Bossy for a possible comp? I've heard his name once or twice when people have discussed Tavares.

I was pretty young during his prime but what I do remember is a guy who could snipe and score goals like nobody else in NHL history...
I like the Bossy (or even Robitaille) types of comparisons. Can't really see the Modano one at all. Anyway, Bossy had over 80 assists one season, and even Robitaille cracked 60 a couple of times. Even if they're renowned for their goal-scoring prowess, maybe the rest of their skills package has been historically underrated.

And just to be nitpicky, I was also caught a bit offguard with this one:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Treff
(BTW, Modano had 62 points in 70 games with Prince Albert at 16. As a rookie, under the old rules, in a very defensive league. At 17, he had 127 points in 65 games.)
To me, that was scarcely in a "very defensive league". It was well past the mid-90s before things really started tightening up in the West... it was actually a pretty notoriously high-scoring circuit before that. Well, the whole CHL was. But the WHL wasn't set apart the way it has been more recently. Anyway, if I'm not mistaken, Modano's "as a rookie, under the old rules, in a very defensive league" season was the same season Rob Brown got 212 points, no? Minor nitpick, though.

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01-25-2007, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by kenadian View Post
Paging Corey Locke, Corey Locke please report to the Bigs.....

GP 66 G 63 A 88 Pts 151 .....

And he won't be dressing anytime in the NHL
Tavares is tied for the OHL scoring lead at 16 years old that is amazing.

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01-25-2007, 10:05 AM
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kenadian
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Originally Posted by RallyKiller View Post
Tavares is tied for the OHL scoring lead at 16 years old that is amazing.
My point was LOCKE won't be in the NHL anytime soon.......151pts doesn't always translate into sucess in the NHL....
Daigle is another example

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01-25-2007, 10:22 AM
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Leslie Treff
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Blind Garden is right that Brown had 212 points in Modano's rookie season, and that at that point things were pretty out of control as far as scoring went in the WHL. It started to get somewhat better then next year, when only a few had numbers in the 150 range (including Fleury and Sakic), but did not come down permanently until the mid 90s. My error. As for the reason I compared Tavares to Modano is the level of talent; not as an exact comparison for style of play. I think Bossy was better than Modano, but it is kind of comparing apples and oranges; but still I do not think that Bossy was as good as Crosby will be. As far as high numbers in juniors go, take a look at Dennis Holland, who had 3 years in the WHL in the late 80s, and was drafted in the third round of the 1987 draft. In the WHL he had an average of about 140 points, and then never played a day in the NHL. Now I am not comparing Tavares' talent level to that of Holland, but numbers in the CHL alone (in any era) do not guarantee a player time in the NHL (or say that the player has NHL level talent). The game in the CHL is so much slower than that of the NHL, and quite a few of these guys cannot make the adjustment to the quickness of the game.


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01-25-2007, 11:23 AM
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thomasincanada
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Originally Posted by Leslie Treff View Post
I think Bossy was better than Modano, but it is kind of comparing apples and oranges; but still I do not think that Bossy was as good as Crosby will be.
Bossy was most definately better than Modano - I think there is a pretty decent gap between the two.

Crosby may end up being better than Bossy - he is definately more well rounded - but he still has a lot to prove first. Simply putting up great numbers won't be enough.

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01-25-2007, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Leslie Treff View Post
The game in the CHL is so much slower than that of the NHL, and quite a few of these guys cannot make the adjustment to the quickness of the game.
And personally, I think the CHL is in the midst of a major slowdown recently, which may or may not be (as you like) attributable either to expansion/dilution of talent and/or the new rules (and resulting massive PP-fests). I saw the recent Vancouver games on Sportsnet, and that looked like pretty fast and good hockey. But most of what I see in the OHL more frequently is a definite notch below, and it gets murkier and murkier to try to figure out which players can step it up. Especially when a lot of the big guns seem to have a free pass to pace themselves on 2-minute shifts and spend up to 20 minutes a game almost standing still on the PP.

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01-25-2007, 02:52 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
And personally, I think the CHL is in the midst of a major slowdown recently, which may or may not be (as you like) attributable either to expansion/dilution of talent and/or the new rules (and resulting massive PP-fests). I saw the recent Vancouver games on Sportsnet, and that looked like pretty fast and good hockey. But most of what I see in the OHL more frequently is a definite notch below, and it gets murkier and murkier to try to figure out which players can step it up. Especially when a lot of the big guns seem to have a free pass to pace themselves on 2-minute shifts and spend up to 20 minutes a game almost standing still on the PP.
I was thinking the same thing at the Battalion game I went to last week.
There are too many marginal players in the league now. I hope they don't expand anymore, it continues to dilute the talent.
And the 'dub is adding Edmonton next year as well...

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01-25-2007, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
the same season Rob Brown got 212 points
I like to think that Mark Recchi was the reason for a lot of his points that season.

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01-25-2007, 10:18 PM
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My point was LOCKE won't be in the NHL anytime soon.......151pts doesn't always translate into sucess in the NHL....
Daigle is another example
Locke was also a significant floater and you could just tell that he wasn't going to be much of a professional player though. I don't think I ever got a feeling about him being a special player when he was putting up his points.

Tavares looks like an extremely determined individual.
It isn't as if he is racking up all of his points on the PP. Shockingly enough he only has 25 PP points relative to 95 total points.

The only thing that I will say is that technically he shouldn't be leading the league in scoring. Had Pat Kane/Sam Gagne not missed time for the World Juniors they would be ahead of him right now...but that doesn't change the fact that he is way out ahead right now.

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