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Do the Habs need a Heavyweight?

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Old
01-19-2007, 04:03 PM
  #1
Drive425
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Do the Habs need a Heavyweight?

I know fighting is not a big part of the game these days but do the Habs need a heavyweight going into the 2nd half of the season. Downey certainly won't intimidate anyone and the way Brashear rocked him a few weeks ago won't inspire anyone. If the Habs could get a heavyweight cheap at the deadline, do you think they should get him and drop Downey??

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01-19-2007, 04:05 PM
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Guy Caballero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
I know fighting is not a big part of the game these days but do the Habs need a heavyweight going into the 2nd half of the season. Downey certainly won't intimidate anyone and the way Brashear rocked him a few weeks ago won't inspire anyone. If the Habs could get a heavyweight cheap at the deadline, do you think they should get him and drop Downey??
Souray and Komi are enough. A goon isn't on the ice enough to really enforce, unless you're the Caps and you suck, so it doesn't hurt to give Brashear more minutes anyway.

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01-19-2007, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Caballero View Post
Souray and Komi are enough. A goon isn't on the ice enough to really enforce, unless you're the Caps and you suck, so it doesn't hurt to give Brashear more minutes anyway.
Anyone notice how Souray Komi and Rivet have fought about 30x less than normal this season?

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01-19-2007, 04:13 PM
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Drive425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Caballero View Post
Souray and Komi are enough. A goon isn't on the ice enough to really enforce, unless you're the Caps and you suck, so it doesn't hurt to give Brashear more minutes anyway.
Do we really want Souray and Komi fighting though? I know that goons don't get many minutes but really if your replacing Downey all you need is someone that has some intensity 4-5 min per game, and beat some fool down every 3-4 games

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01-19-2007, 04:19 PM
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coolguy21415
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Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
Do we really want Souray and Komi fighting though? I know that goons don't get many minutes but really if your replacing Downey all you need is someone that has some intensity 4-5 min per game, and beat some fool down every 3-4 games
Yeah but there are very few goons who can actually play. Laraque, Brashear, Neil? Boogard truly sucks when he's on the ice.

I'd rather have no goon, but a few tough guys who *could* fight, than a goon who's either going to be a liability on the ice, or just take up a spot on the roster.

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01-19-2007, 04:33 PM
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Lord Horse
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Yes absolutely we desparately need a heavyweight!

Sorry if it sounds harsh, but our team is chock full o' chicken-skites. Nobody fights for the sake of fighting when we're down (see recent string of losing for reference) and when liberties are taken around Koivu or the goalie there's hardly any payback, if ever.

Gainey could've had either Brashear (who's only @ -2, better than some Habs) or Laraque (-5, not too bad) but the "speed kills" philosophy won out over having a one of the two most feared enforcers. Brashear is a certified goon who plays the game with an intent to injure - you may not like it but it keeps people's heads on a swivel. Remember Lapierre on Gagne? Poor Simon kept looking around after that.

Until young guys like Max or "Gui-Unit" (man is that silly ) are ready to show and prove they have what it takes to drop 'em and go with anyone who needs a punch in the face, then we'l need a goon. The vets have proven their abject yellowness for the last 5 years at least.... with apologies to Koivu, the bravest m.f. regardless of how many fights he gets in.

Sorry again if that sounds too harsh, but I'm tired of seeing the "back down" from the Habs when it matters.

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01-19-2007, 05:05 PM
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I concur... but with an admitted bias towards the pugulistic puck slingers... Anaheim is perhaps the best team in the league... waves pound the sand and they beat people up.... they have 40 fighting majors...

Downey's more of an inspirational/leader type at this point and I admire his guts... I don't think the heavy is quite obsolete... there are some tough guys in our division Peters, McGratton, Belak... as an example last night Mathieu Roy had to fight Anaheim's Sean Thornton (who's a tough cat) and there was a second fight... for Saturday's battle of Alberta the Oilers have dipped into the farm and called up Stortini... no doubt to counter the Flames bringing up Goddard... We don't want guys like Souray or Komi, for that matter, having to deal with McGratton/Peters should things get ugly... I think the role will make a comeback... it's hockey... fighting is a part of it... god wills it. I can't stand guys like Neil, Ondurs, Orpik, Exelby, Volchenkov... I could go on... the heavy was built to stop these fools. Komi and Souray however capabale are too valuable

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01-19-2007, 05:09 PM
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fredez
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Gui-Unit is mad heavy

BOOYAKASHA

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01-19-2007, 05:22 PM
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buddahsmoka1
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Whats the point? There hasnt even been more than 10 fights for the Canadiens this year, I really think having a goon is unneccisary in this day and age, but having a couple players that can play and drop the gloves is essential.

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01-19-2007, 05:30 PM
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JF
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I have always been on the side who likes having an enforcer with our team, or at least in the system. That's what I don't like right now. I like Downey for his character and good energy in the locker room and on the ice, but as an enforcer, his best is probably behind him.

I like when guys like Souray and Komisarek stand up for teammates, but it hurts our team when it comes to fighting other team's goon. We can't lose one of our top 3 defensemen for 5 minutes when the other team lose an 4th line player who will be playing for about 4-5 minutes per game. And then, there is the injury factor (which is quite important for Souray, considering he has porcelain wrists that could break at any given moment). I don't think it's worth to lose him for a long period of time for a fight.

I would like at least to have a real heavyweight in Hamilton if the need arise. Right now, if I'm not mistaken, this player is Zach Sortini in Hamilton, but he is in Edmonton's system so we can't call him. The only enforcer we have is Jimmy Bonneau, who is in the ECHL and lightyears away from the NHL (unless he has made some unreal progress I'm unaware of).

I understand the point of view of the people who bring up that fighting doesn't have its place in the new NHL. But as long as other teams have enforcers on their team, I will always be more comfortable if we also have one.

Just my opinion.

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01-19-2007, 05:40 PM
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I think you just need enough of a presence so that teams won't try and push you around, and Sourray, Rivet, Komisarek and to a lesser extent Downey, do that for us.

I would rather have a fast, energetic 4th line with the ability to score, than a pure fighter.

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01-19-2007, 05:57 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Whats the point? There hasnt even been more than 10 fights for the Canadiens this year, I really think having a goon is unneccisary in this day and age, but having a couple players that can play and drop the gloves is essential.
That being said, Laraque has 19 points this year. Not bad for a "goon".

By the way, Georges, those are his words, not mine.

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01-19-2007, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
That being said, Laraque has 19 points this year. Not bad for a "goon".

By the way, Georges, those are his words, not mine.
Yeah that's one less then Samsonov

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01-19-2007, 06:10 PM
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tiz
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I think that Rivet/Komi/Souray and Downey are definitely enough. They just won't fight for no reason, but remember in the Bs game, there was a knee-on-knee on Johnson and Souray hunted the guy down... I don't really think that people are taking any liberties on our players so we're ok for now.

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01-19-2007, 08:53 PM
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larek
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Ya we need a good enforcer
why Not?
Souray and Rivet usually never fight
why? Because they dont want to.

send Downey down or have him retire give
him a job in the org

and there are alot of enforcers in the minors
who would salivate to play once every 5 games or so
in the NHL!!
Having a good enforcer wont hurt HABS at all
why would it?

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01-19-2007, 09:06 PM
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fredez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larek View Post
Souray and Rivet usually never fight
why? Because they dont need to.
Fixed.

When something happens Souray and Rivet are two of the first ones to defend their teammates. Only this year Souray pummeled Grenne against Edmonton when he kneed Johnson. Rivet tried to go after Regehr and Phaneuf when Regehr destroyed Downey.

Other than that there hasn't been any reason for Souray and Rivet to fight.

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01-19-2007, 09:19 PM
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larek
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neither one have an enforcer mentality
only time they will drop the gloves is if someone is half dead
or a blatant dirty check!! and usually never gets to the glove dropping more
like a few dirty looks.
you think teams come in to Montreal worried about Rivet? LOL
maybe Souray but it takes alot for him to go!! And teams know it
A player Like Boogard comes in to the Bell and wreaks some Havoc like
he did in Edmonton a few nights ago whats anyone going to do?
Rivet would get his head handed to him
Souray who knows what he would do
and Downey would get another concussion!!



Fix what you want but Fighting is not their thing now
that one is an old vet who growls but doesnt bite anymore and the other is a star on the PP
who could be one fight away from blowing his wrist out again!
im talking about an enforcer not a Lightweight who possibly might be punch drunk
or players who just shouldnt fight much for one reason or another and really dont want to fight
only if they have to!!
I see Oilers just called up Stortini from the Dogs
For Flames game and Flames Called Up Godard !!
Nothing wrong with that makes the game much more interesting!


Last edited by larek: 01-19-2007 at 09:31 PM.
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01-19-2007, 09:32 PM
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fredez
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larek View Post
neither one have an enforcer mentality
only time they will drop the gloves is if someone is half dead
or a blatant dirty check!! and usually never gets to the glove dropping more
like a few dirty looks.
you think teams come in to Montreal worried about Rivet? LOL
maybe Souray but it takes alot for him to go!! And teams know it
A player Like Boogard comes in to the Bell and wreaks some Havoc like
he did in Edmonton a few nights ago whats anyone going to do?
Rivet would get his head handed to him
Souray who knows what he would do
and Downey would get another concussion!!


Fix what you want but Fighting is not their thing now
that one is an old vet who growls but doesnt bite anymore and the other is a star on the PP
I see Oilers just called up Stortini from the Dogs
For Flames game and Flames Called Up Godard !!
Nothing wrong with that makes the game much more interesting!
Look at the Eastern conference standings, out of the 8 teams in the palyoffs right now only Ottawa has a real heavyweight in McGrattan. I don't remember McGrattan being intimidating in any of the games we played against Ottawa this year. I remember Komisarek nailing him to the boards and him having a bloody nose though.

Out of all the games the Habs have played so far, was there one game where you felt the team was being intimidated?

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01-19-2007, 09:37 PM
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Phousse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiz View Post
I think that Rivet/Komi/Souray and Downey are definitely enough. They just won't fight for no reason, but remember in the Bs game, there was a knee-on-knee on Johnson and Souray hunted the guy down... I don't really think that people are taking any liberties on our players so we're ok for now.
I believe that was the Oilers game.

Many people, fans of other teams mind you, were calling Johnson a diver.

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01-19-2007, 09:39 PM
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larek
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Have to Admit the Eastern Conference has gotten
to be a bit wimpy!

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01-19-2007, 10:05 PM
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Go on NHL.com and look at the #41 for the LA Kings scoring a 2nd goal of the year yesterday going to the net....on that play, looked faster than ever, bigger than ever and despite Chara's cheapshot, he might have been the best solution 'cause he doesn't look to bad in his fights so far.

I present to you....RAITIS IVANANS!!!!

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01-19-2007, 10:07 PM
  #22
Blind Gardien
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I just think Souray and Rivet and Komisarek maybe need a little bit more of a green light... encouragement, even. Perhaps none of them are as crucial losses midstream in a game as they think they are? We have 7D in the lineup every night now, it's not such a burden if somebody has to sit down. And while they're all looking good lately wrt to clearing the trash out around Huet (after the whistle, of course), I'd say you might just as well get 2 for instigating and 5 as just 2 for cross-checking or roughing. We can absorb the loss with Streit in the lineup. And teams have shown pretty consistently that getting on top of Huet is part of the gameplan. Buffalo, Carolina, Atlanta, Ottawa, they're all right in there, and sometimes I'd like to see the protection go beyond the post-whistle shoves. The guys we have could do that. But I'd also like to see the protection be a little bit pro-active too, and not a lot of our guys are going to go sit on top of their goalie as payback. Lapierre can help there I believe. Having somebody close by who can help out when the fireworks ensue wouldn't hurt. That's part of the reason why I've promoted a Martin Lapointe-like presence amongst our forwards. Doesn't have to be a real "enforcer", but just some solid grit that can play more than a Downey or Murray would be useful at times, IMHO.

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01-19-2007, 10:18 PM
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ChemiseBleuHonnete
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drive425 View Post
I know fighting is not a big part of the game these days but do the Habs need a heavyweight going into the 2nd half of the season. Downey certainly won't intimidate anyone and the way Brashear rocked him a few weeks ago won't inspire anyone. If the Habs could get a heavyweight cheap at the deadline, do you think they should get him and drop Downey??
short answer : NO
long answer : NON

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01-19-2007, 11:30 PM
  #24
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Have they lost any games because they didn't have an übergoon? I don't think so. They don't need another Ivanans type.

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01-20-2007, 12:29 AM
  #25
Lord Horse
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I know we're all about the "energy line" being a "scoring line" but I'll take a "punch you in the face" line any day of the week. There isn't a single intimidating player on the Habs roster and that's just plain wrong. Even Begin, when healthy, chirped more than fought.

When we're down in the dumps, like losing 6-2 to Ottawa, it's time for someone to just plain grab someone and go to town. And if teams start running up the score, for example, where's the devil who's gonna pummel their best scorer just for being on the ice?

There's a lot of people drinking way too much of that new-NHL Kool-aid, even in our own organization, for comfort. Here's what I mean:

Say you want to have 4 scoring lines. But wait! You don't have that much talent at forward, or at least the tougher guys in your lineup are Garth Murray types who are out of place on the ice. Then what? Maybe you say "OK, I'll use #4 as a development line and play all kids" so you end up with, say, Kostitsyn-Grabovski-Ferland. Only problem is, they're learning the big-league game, and quickly find themselves being scored on a whole lot more than they score. Not to mention not getting enough minutes. Now you have a line of demoralized rookies and A LOT less toughness than you will need when you get to The Dance.

Bottom line, if you're not Buffalo, not having a wild and woolly enforcer means your energy line is gonna be Downey-Murray-(punishment for poor play). It's half-azzed.

Don't tell me a Begin-Lapierre-Streit line is a scoring line. They're not at all slow, but who exactly are they faster than ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Whats the point? There hasnt even been more than 10 fights for the Canadiens this year
THAT *IS* the point.

With repect to Potatoes Downey, who at least has a handful of guts, guys like Rivet and Komisarek are not enough. The reason we've only got 10 fights is because:

a) lily-livered non-fighting team
b) refs jump in too early (but that's league-wide)
c) Downey doesn't play enough


One poster said other teams aren't taking many liberties ???????? W-in-T-F ?!

How many times does Kovalev get kneed?
How many times does Saku get hit from behind?
How many times has Huet or Abby been touched in the crease?

Seriously, if a forward touches your goalie in his own crease, "it's ripping time!", or you might as well just forgot about winning the Cup and hand it over to Carolina.

Oh wait...

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